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Old 07-24-2019   #81
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I personally have had two Stylus Epics (mju II), two Canonets, and one Electro 35 all die on me in the time i've owned my M6... as an example.
Thank you. All cheaper consumer models. I can see that happening. Any P&S from the 90s seems to be the worst at failing and being able to be serviced (Nikon 35ti, Leica CM, etc). I was thinking more in the realm of SLRs from that period.
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Old 07-24-2019   #82
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Thank you. All cheaper consumer models. I can see that happening. Any P&S from the 90s seems to be the worst at failing and being able to be serviced (Nikon 35ti, Leica CM, etc). I was thinking more in the realm of SLRs from that period.
My F100 also died a few months back, I forgot about that one.. I dunno if that counts as a cheap consumer model or not.
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Old 07-24-2019   #83
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Has anyone looked athte price of Hasselblad Xpan's these days?

Now that's a camera we all should have invested into years ago . . .
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Old 07-24-2019   #84
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Or indeed Mamiya 7s. Leica prices have definitely risen, but not in that league!
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Old 07-24-2019   #85
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Or indeed Mamiya 7s. Leica prices have definitely risen, but not in that league!

No kidding. I bought and sold a 7 w/ 80mm for $850CDN a few years a go. Was happy not lose a penny for a couple years of use. I would never pay the asking prices these days.
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Old 07-24-2019   #86
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The increase in leica isn’t all that much, and if the camera is well-cared for you’ll get it back if you sell, or more; unlikely it will be less. Ditto with Xpan, Mamiya.
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Old 07-24-2019   #87
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Old 07-24-2019   #88
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My Mamiya 7 kit cost me like 800$ to put together and I made a little off it when selling.

I was blown away recently when looking at getting another. NO WAY. Remember they are plastic and crack up pretty easily!

As for Leica prices. I see maybe a 10-15% increase over the past few years. You can still find those good deals if being patient.

A M3 DS is still under 900$ a user M2 850$ or so.

The M4-2/P used to be the undesirable and now they easily top M2 and M4 prices.

I do not see them getting any cheaper. Buy now. Fuss later! Haha

Now talk about Bessa prices once they were discontinued. Sky high.

My Bessa R cost about twice as much as I remember used prices being 8 years ago. (Now about 300-400$ then around 175-250$)
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Old 07-24-2019   #89
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i bought a konica big mini bm-300 in like new condition on the auction site for a "good" price of $160.

i took 7 photos with it, and then it bricked on me. now i'm keeping an eye out for a parts body to get the AF motor. given enough time, it's still repairable. LOL!

lesson learned: electronic, computerized film cameras are not worth spending much money on.

poor repairability of certain cameras will pop the price bubble, if anything will.
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Old 07-24-2019   #90
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Originally Posted by aizan View Post
poor repairability of certain cameras will pop the price bubble, if anything will.
I honestly don't think it will. Everyone knows that these things ('90's P&S's) are paper-weights waiting to happen, and yet a T3 is still edging towards $2k.

I suspect that every time one dies it will just increase the 'value' of the rest as supply diminishes and demand remains the same.
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Old 07-24-2019   #91
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Originally Posted by filmtwit View Post
Has anyone looked athte price of Hasselblad Xpan's these days?

Now that's a camera we all should have invested into years ago . . .
I have, and I rue the day when I didn't buy one when they were reasonably affordable. But then again, I'm also somewhat glad I don't have an expensive, ticking, unrepairable time bomb on my hands...

Since I don't have three grand burning a hole in my pocket, I'm lugging around a Pentax 6x7 with a panoramic converter for my wide aspect jollies. It's not as compact and light as the Xpan, but it's also not as Xpan-$ive...
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Old 07-25-2019   #92
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Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I honestly don't think it will. Everyone knows that these things ('90's P&S's) are paper-weights waiting to happen, and yet a T3 is still edging towards $2k.

I suspect that every time one dies it will just increase the 'value' of the rest as supply diminishes and demand remains the same.
That could be possible.
Another reason which could keep the price level relatively high: Some repair specialists are now focussing on these cameras fixing defunct electronics, like
https://www.instagram.com/camerarescue/
or
Pierro Pozella, who is an expert for Contax T2 / T3 repairs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcIusrw50PM
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Old 07-25-2019   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthetasmaniac View Post
I honestly don't think it will. Everyone knows that these things ('90's P&S's) are paper-weights waiting to happen, and yet a T3 is still edging towards $2k.

I suspect that every time one dies it will just increase the 'value' of the rest as supply diminishes and demand remains the same.
For sure, part of the price increase is people fighting over computerized, electronic cameras that are still working. Even bricked parts bodies are price inflated.

I'm still worried that repairmen can't fully deal with these cameras, though. I follow PPP Repairs on IG, too, and he's mostly fixing things like broken flashes and lens extension on P&S cameras. I don't think he's fixed AF motors on a Contax or other P&S, and I'm sure it's a hassle to fix anything that needs a parts body. In the future, that's the biggest issue repairmen will face.
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Old 07-25-2019   #94
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FWIW overall camera prices are still lower than they were in the 90's. Two big things: the last generation of high grade cameras is still in its depreciation slump (although this will change, and probably pretty soon). And the internet means buyers aren't held captive by local camera shops/camera shows - which is a big deal. A lot of the older "rare" cameras turned out to not be so rare when the internet lets you find one for sale in another state or another country even.

The decline of film has had an impact, but I don't think it has made as a deep of a cut as some people think. A lot of people have hung onto cameras they like, or invested a lot of money in, even if they switched primarily to digital. And those who didn't switch scooped up a lot of the better equipment. The decline of film only tanked prices on consumer level equipment, the last generations of which are also still in their depreciation slump (and will likely not come out of it, for I can barely see a market for it in the future).

The internet has also led to some price bubbles. Bokeh Kings, Bokeh Monsters, etc. Some of these bubbles take four or five years to pop, but eventually prices even out again. And I will always have to remark on the Diana camera bubble, where boxed Diana cameras were getting $200+ on ebay for a couple of years, and now boxed examples are getting maybe $50 or $60 if the seller is lucky. Leica has a long standing hype cult which means prices are usually high, although again, we've seen fads for particular lenses or models inflate prices here and there until people get bored.
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Old 07-25-2019   #95
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What will pop the bubble is when one of the makers turns out a new model. If Kodak has any entrepreneurial verve left, they’d approach someone (? Cosina ? Ricoh) to make a model with their name labeled on it.

And while they’re at it a REAL film scanner with their film profiles. Not rebranded chicken shyte out of the Peeplz Republik
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Home Developing and Scanners
Old 07-25-2019   #96
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Home Developing and Scanners

As said above, home developing and reasonable quality scanners for a couple of hundred bucks support the market for quality film cameras. Plus, aging baby boomers with moderate retirement accounts and extra time to home develop support today's prices.

Regarding downturns in retirement accounts and overall accumulated wealth, I doubt if many people with a $1,000,000 retirement account pre-2008, whose account may have fell to $500,000 in the great recession, started selling off Leica bodies or lenses in order to survive. I bet people were going into foreclosure but hanging on to their collectibles.

However, the prospect of losing a job in 2008 and 2009 likely pushed down demand so prices naturally fell.

My 2 cents.

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Old 08-04-2019   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
My Mamiya 7 kit cost me like 800$ to put together and I made a little off it when selling.

I was blown away recently when looking at getting another. NO WAY. Remember they are plastic and crack up pretty easily!

As for Leica prices. I see maybe a 10-15% increase over the past few years. You can still find those good deals if being patient.

A M3 DS is still under 900$ a user M2 850$ or so.

The M4-2/P used to be the undesirable and now they easily top M2 and M4 prices.

I do not see them getting any cheaper. Buy now. Fuss later! Haha

Now talk about Bessa prices once they were discontinued. Sky high.

My Bessa R cost about twice as much as I remember used prices being 8 years ago. (Now about 300-400$ then around 175-250$)
Fads change, some fads are realistic, other are not. The Bessa R may be realistic, but I don't think the Olympus Trip 35 fad was realistic.
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Old 08-04-2019   #98
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I think with the resurgence of film photography over the past few years, the market for cameras that are sold directly from original owners has dried up. All you see now are dealers and people who buy & sell on Ebay to make a profit.
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Old 08-04-2019   #99
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Originally Posted by aizan View Post
i bought a konica big mini bm-300 in like new condition on the auction site for a "good" price of $160.

i took 7 photos with it, and then it bricked on me. now i'm keeping an eye out for a parts body to get the AF motor. given enough time, it's still repairable. LOL!

lesson learned: electronic, computerized film cameras are not worth spending much money on.

poor repairability of certain cameras will pop the price bubble, if anything will.
same thing happened with a big mini i purchased at an estate sale. looked brand new, had no issues with Roll #1. then bricked.
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Old 08-05-2019   #100
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Another factor is the stupidity of buyers.

Do a search on ebay and you'll get results for BIN and auctions. But people will often bid way above BIN prices in auctions. I've made offers and had them accepted and then noticed the ones being auctioned going above the first BIN price.

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Old 08-05-2019   #101
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I get the sense (not backed up by anything but my own observations) that genuine demand from a younger audience is driving higher prices of Leica M6, Contax G and premium compacts such as the Nikon 35ti. But other Leica models such as M2, M3, M4, M5, not so much.

M6 "classic" prices seem to be up about $300 right now, but too soon to know if that's just a short-term blip.

I wonder how much is being driven by environmental concerns: Finding one's hobbies in items which were manufactured decades ago is a form of recycling!
Japan Camera Hunter isn't helping matters either.
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Old 08-05-2019   #102
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Feel bad for those who paid $7000 for a Leica M240 when they first came out.
Now worth $2500. How about all those who believed Leica's keep their value?!
Only the film gear and lenses keep their value (eventually - if you buy new it will drop the first few years).
Digi Leicas are the world's most expensive disposable kameras.
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Old 08-05-2019   #103
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Japan Camera Hunter isn't helping matters either.
Dealers who have always sold used gear aren't helping? Weird opinion that one.
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Old 08-05-2019   #104
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It's quite interesting observing the younger generation of film shooters reactions to different cameras - my M3 and Bessaflex have received a lot of positive comments, but things like my Nikon F90X or Canon Eos650 get not one word. My friendly Plymouth dealer says he can sell every single point and shoot like MJUII or Contax ten times over, ditto SLRs like the Pentax K1000, but outside of that it's medium format, and Instax.

I didn't get on with the meter in my M6 and sold it 18 months ago, which does make me wince a teeny bit, but I understand the appeal - unlike the M2-4 it has one, and I think that's its appeal.

The largest percentage increases I've seen are in lenses though. With adapters the classic lenses have become considerably more desirable. Despite wanting a big clear out (do I really need 20 plus 50mm lenses?) I'm reluctant to part with them just yet.
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Old 08-05-2019   #105
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a poignant observation I recently heard was that film cameras were actually grossly devalued when digital camera sales were at their peak. what we see perceive to be a large increase in price is nothing more than market self-correction. the exception to this is the posh point & shoot. people will eventually realize they are overpriced, limited life-span toys, and once again, the market will correct itself.
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Old 08-05-2019   #106
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Feel bad for those who paid $7000 for a Leica M240 when they first came out.
Now worth $2500.
I learned my lesson pretty quickly with digital cameras and smartphones. If you believe being on the cutting edge of technology will make you a better photographer... sorry to say it, you're an idiot.

A last-gen device, whether it be a camera, a laptop, a phone, etc will ALWAYS be good enough. If you're upgrading on the yearly cycle (ahem, Sony), you're making corporations and their investors very, very happy.

And for the record, I'm enjoying my $2500 M240, for which I paid $2500.
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Old 08-06-2019   #107
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I learned my lesson pretty quickly with digital cameras and smartphones. If you believe being on the cutting edge of technology will make you a better photographer... sorry to say it, you're an idiot.

A last-gen device, whether it be a camera, a laptop, a phone, etc will ALWAYS be good enough. If you're upgrading on the yearly cycle (ahem, Sony), you're making corporations and their investors very, very happy.

And for the record, I'm enjoying my $2500 M240, for which I paid $2500.
I am still very very happy with my M240, and have no urge to change it for the M10 or whatever else they eventually come out with. If it already takes superb images, what would the point be? I just want a rangefinder with a digital back and this is it.
The one huge thing I prefer over my old M9/E is the LiveView because I have used that numerous times to calibrate lenses.

Anyway, decent lenses and film bodies go up in price. Other stuff not.
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Old 08-06-2019   #108
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The M262 I purchased new 3 1/2 years ago, the only M body I've ever purchased new, is the perfect digital camera for me. Excellent image quality, lighter than an M240 with the aluminum top plate, 24 MP full frame, no video or EVF connection, etc, etc. A digital stills image-only M7 that can be as simple as an M6 if you want to use it that way.

As far as prices going up on M bodies, it's a little of this and that. Both film becoming more popular than it's been in rcent years and.....Japan.

Anyone old enough to remember the 1980's and the days of Shutterbug ads remembers ads of those looking only to buy the best quality classic cameras, especially Leica M's, then take them to Japan and sell them at crazy prices to Japanese collectors with more money than sense back in the days of the booming economy in Japan. I even remember the buyers at the local swap meets, paying out the cash, then locking the bodies away in their trunks because everything they were buying was going to one place.

Scan down eBay these days, look for a specific body like a Leica M4 or any other classic and see how far down the list you get before everything being sold is in Japan or somewhere else in the Far East. Those cameras were all purchased 20-30 years ago by people who paid top dollar (above top dollar often) and now are trying to get top dollar for them. Most likely way off the amount they originally paid for them, mind you. I can recall the days of not being able to find an M4 in almost any condition for under $2,000.
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Old 08-06-2019   #109
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Shutterbug in the 80s: Del Hegland, Don Chatterton, George Ury, and others I can't recall. I won't mention the few still in business. Those were the days!
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Old 08-06-2019   #110
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No kidding. I bought and sold a 7 w/ 80mm for $850CDN a few years a go. Was happy not lose a penny for a couple years of use. I would never pay the asking prices these days.

I obsessively check the prices of my most favorite camera system, Rolleiflex SL66 (SLR). I don't really need to complete my lens collection, but I can't help looking. I'm pleased to say I haven't bought anything for several years.



The asking prices are generally high. But the same items stay on sale for a really long time, years sometimes. I suppose they're waiting for the "perfect purchaser," someone who doesn't really know what it's worth, or who is in a hurry. I guess that's a normal marketing decision.
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Old 08-06-2019   #111
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I obsessively check the prices of my most favorite camera system, Rolleiflex SL66 (SLR). I don't really need to complete my lens collection, but I can't help looking. I'm pleased to say I haven't bought anything for several years.

The asking prices are generally high. But the same items stay on sale for a really long time, years sometimes. I suppose they're waiting for the "perfect purchaser," someone who doesn't really know what it's worth, or who is in a hurry. I guess that's a normal marketing decision.
I get that. I have a Rollei 40mm 2.8 HFT chrome ltm lens for sale locally on Craigslist. Been there for months but I don't care as I don't need to sell it. So if someone steps up to my asking price then cool.
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