Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Leica M10, 240 family, M-P, M60

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 10-31-2013   #41
sojournerphoto
Registered User
 
sojournerphoto is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2WK View Post
Well, now he has switched to the m240 as well, so go figure.
The rationalisation made me smile too.

I bought a used MM and am utterly delighted. I do not have any illusion that the M9 is somehow magical, but trading that up to an M would rquire the end of a lot of film kit, which I still enjoy. Hecne the M9 remains at the moment. Also, both suffer the same shortcomings, so I don't get too annoyed with the MM in comparison to it's colour equivalent. I did hit the buffer the other night.

Mike
  Reply With Quote

Old 10-31-2013   #42
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by malland View Post
Yes, his view is essentially similar to that of my post #34 above.Tristes Tropiques [WIP]
Not having been acquainted with the site, I read through the various mentions of the M. He trashes on it for a while, and then when the chips are down, decides to use it instead of an M9 due to its low light abilities. So no, I don't think he agrees with a statement that an M9 is competitive.

Dante
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-01-2013   #43
pieter
Registered User
 
pieter is offline
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 105
Well from what I gather it's not so much about changing his views on the image quality comparisons between CMOS and CCD, but just a practical choice.
Nobody ever contested the better high iso performance (even given the M9 quality when you push in post instead of in camera).

I have a M240, and I have shot an event at night which the M9 wouldn't be able to do. The M240 performed admirably where the M9 would have failed. I am positively impressed by the high iso possibilities of the camera.
Also I really like the improved ergonomics and the shutter sound.
So I'm happy with the purchase.

But to be honest when going by image quality at base iso I just don't find it a very exciting camera.

Talking about changing views. Steve Huff seems to have toned down his enthusiasm for the M240 in favor of the new Sony. He complains about how the Summilux 50mm ASPH just doesn't deliver as much sharpness on the M240 as on the M8 and the M9. A sentiment I have to agree with.
At base iso I just don't find the M to be much more than just a capable performer. Capable but nothing special. It certainly lacks the colors and the crispness of the M9 or even more so the M8.

But this is what I expected when I bought the camera. I have a MM for my own fun. That camera just oozes magic, mojo, umami or whatever you want to call it when a camera has character.
The M240 is an amazingly pleasant camera with great ergonomics and a really improved range of opportunities. All the little improvements do add up and it is a capable performer. But to be honest I just don't find it to be a very inspirational or special camera. (except for the fact that I can bring it to situations where I would have left the M9 at home).

So all in all, when buying a M240 just don't expect to get the M9 and the MM to be thrown into the bargain for free, as if the M240 could do what they do and more.
__________________
pronkphoto.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-01-2013   #44
flyalf
Registered User
 
flyalf is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Norway, Tromsø
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
...

In addition, my general impression - having used an X-Pro1 since it came out - is that an M240 plus external EVF is not significantly less usable than the X-Pro's famous hybrid viewfinder - on both, you find yourself using the optical for wider lenses and the EVF for longer focal lengths (not in the least due to sidestep parallax in focusing and framing with the Fuji). The nicer thing about the Fuji is that you don't have to shift eye position.

...

Dante
Thanks a lot for sharing!

I borrowed a X-Pro1 some weeks ago to compare to M9 and M. The BIG difference for me was that I couldnt live with the AF and the subjective hrs of wait from pressing the shutter until something happened . Im sorry to say, but due to me not being able to get the X-Pro1 to handle I had close to zero hit rate in street photography. Again, this is my experience, and I dont know if this is my or the camera limitations. Better photographers might cope?
__________________
Regards, Alf Sollund, Tromsø, Norway
------------------------------------
http://alfsollund.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2013   #45
crispy12
Registered User
 
crispy12's Avatar
 
crispy12 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 284
Just a bit re: live view.

A lot of people don't realise how useful live view/EVF can be sometimes. I'm now able to mount some SLR glass on to my favourite camera for close up shots or portrait/sports/wildlife shots. Sure, I still use the rangefinder 95% of the time (the RF so much better than my M6) but for the 5% of the time that I need it, I'm glad it's there.

No longer do I have to hear people mention "use the right camera for the job", because now I can do all that on a rangefinder camera too. I also don't have to resort to using clunky ancient technology like my Visoflex III with its array of lenses and adapters. I'm slowly in the process of unloading all my other cameras (my point and shoot, my DSLR etc)


Nikon 35-70 f2.8 on Leica M by chrisongtj, on Flickr

Of course, the upcoming Sony A7 will be able to do similarly if one is able to forego the rangefinder. But hey, this is rangefinder forum!
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2013   #46
sojournerphoto
Registered User
 
sojournerphoto is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,639
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by crispy12 View Post
Just a bit re: live view.

A lot of people don't realise how useful live view/EVF can be sometimes. I'm now able to mount some SLR glass on to my favourite camera for close up shots or portrait/sports/wildlife shots. Sure, I still use the rangefinder 95% of the time (the RF so much better than my M6) but for the 5% of the time that I need it, I'm glad it's there.

No longer do I have to hear people mention "use the right camera for the job", because now I can do all that on a rangefinder camera too. I also don't have to resort to using clunky ancient technology like my Visoflex III with its array of lenses and adapters. I'm slowly in the process of unloading all my other cameras (my point and shoot, my DSLR etc)


Nikon 35-70 f2.8 on Leica M by chrisongtj, on Flickr

Of course, the upcoming Sony A7 will be able to do similarly if one is able to forego the rangefinder. But hey, this is rangefinder forum!
Yes, I thought that would be a useful addition. I liked live view on my old 1Ds3 for anything on a tripod and expect it would be useful on the RF as well. If it's good enough to live focus as well then it is clearly useful for longer lenses too.

Next up, AF for portrait and sports applications

Mike
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2013   #47
crispy12
Registered User
 
crispy12's Avatar
 
crispy12 is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by sojournerphoto View Post
Yes, I thought that would be a useful addition. I liked live view on my old 1Ds3 for anything on a tripod and expect it would be useful on the RF as well. If it's good enough to live focus as well then it is clearly useful for longer lenses too.

Next up, AF for portrait and sports applications

Mike
Ok fine, perhaps sports photography might not be a strongpoint with this camera... hehe
__________________
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2013   #48
raid
Dad Photographer
 
raid's Avatar
 
raid is offline
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 31,383
Thanks for your review, Dante. I have not used the M 240. I am enjoying the use of the M8 and M9. I cannot justify in my case to add any expensive new camera while I have cameras that work very well with my lenses.

Can the sensor in this camera render colors as natural as the sensor in the M9?
The M9 is excellent in giving back beautifully exposed and balanced images in situstions with multiple light sources. Does the M240 also handle such cases as well as the M9?
__________________
- Raid
________________

http://raid.smugmug.com/
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-02-2013   #49
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by malland View Post
Dante, you'll note that I wrote my statement a week ago, and my post #34 two weeks ago. At that time he hadn't changed his view, as he apparently now has. My views on the M9 unique color rendition and on it's use for high ISO haven't changed.

—Mitch/Paris
Looking for Baudelaire [WIP]
Mitch -

To be clear, I don't think his self-reversal makes you wrong (nor does it necessarily make you right). The color rendition is a personal preference that is difficult to evaluate. Comparing my M8 and M files, there is no difference I see that could not be attributed to the white balancing. And certainly nothing that would make me want to forego modern responsiveness and overall operation.

And on the "High-ISO" thing with the M8/M9 - don't take this the wrong way, but the claim that underexposing and increasing exposure in post is a workable solution is like concluding that push-processing is a substitute for upping film speed. Your technique - like push-processing film - involves a deliberate underexposure. This pushes everything to the left on the histogram and pushes some shadow data below the noise floor.

The problem I have identified in testing your "push" technique is that it is really best put - just like pushing film - to situations where a considerable amount of shadow detail can be written off. So for scenes like a Thai cafe seen from the street, it works because it is a high-contrast scene, and the interest is all happening around the highlights - and you can just drop the noisy shadows off. It's not helpful for relatively flat scenes.

Dante
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-03-2013   #50
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,159
Dante. Thanks. So far this has been very interesting. The M9 continues to keep me well occupied but it is still great to see this real time information on the M. Keep it coming.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-16-2013   #51
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Next installment: vs. the X-Pro1

http://themachineplanet.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/

Dante
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #52
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
And is there any aspect I am missing in the M vs. X-Pro1 comparo? I was thinking about discussing color, but that is really subjective and probably not helpful to people.

Dante
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #53
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,159
This is terrific. There are so many assumptions on the internet about the abilities of these two cameras as compared with each other. It is nice to read an objective assessment detailing the strengths and weaknesses of each platform. Thanks.

If time permits it would be interesting to see some color comparisons between each camera.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #54
CameraQuest
Head Bartender
 
CameraQuest is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: over the hills from Malibu
Posts: 5,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
And is there any aspect I am missing in the M vs. X-Pro1 comparo? I was thinking about discussing color, but that is really subjective and probably not helpful to people.

Dante
the comparison would be probably be more useful and up to date
if the Sony A7 and A7r are included.

Stephen
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #55
Pioneer
Registered User
 
Pioneer's Avatar
 
Pioneer is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Age: 65
Posts: 3,159
Things are certainly moving fast in our new digital universe.
__________________
You gotta love a fast lens;

It is almost as good as a fast horse!
Dan
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #56
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
the comparison would be probably be more useful and up to date
if the Sony A7 and A7r are included.

Stephen
I'm only half-kidding when I say that by the time I ended up finishing that (and I'd have to get an A7 first), Sony's ADD will have kicked in, and the A7 would have been discontinued. The problem with doing detailed comparisons is that it would take a couple of months to get eliminate the learning curve from the equation.

I would actually like to run an X-Pro2, but it's not out, and I don't think Fuji would put me on its A-list.

The basis for even doing this is that both cameras have optical viewfinders are are the same general size and shape, with the same basic control layout.

Dante
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #57
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
 
Dante_Stella's Avatar
 
Dante_Stella is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,784
I'll work on this - the most interesting part so far is that wood tones are done a lot differently between the two; otherwise, you could mix and match fairly easily.

Dante

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
This is terrific. There are so many assumptions on the internet about the abilities of these two cameras as compared with each other. It is nice to read an objective assessment detailing the strengths and weaknesses of each platform. Thanks.

If time permits it would be interesting to see some color comparisons between each camera.
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-18-2013   #58
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,362
Dante,

Your article is a pleasure to read. Your thoughts seem very fair and balanced… which is increasingly rare. I know many photographers will find it helpful and enlightening.

Thank you very much for the time and effort you spent on this.


PS The comment re: Thorsten Overgaard and vide made me laugh out loud.
__________________
Basically, I mean, ah—well, let’s say that for me anyway when a photograph is interesting, it’s interesting because of the kind of photographic problem it states—which has to do with the . . . contest between content and form.
Garry Winogrand
williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 23:05.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.