Meet the new Kodak Film: Kodak Alaris...
Old 09-03-2013   #1
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Meet the new Kodak Film: Kodak Alaris...

Great news folks, looks like the new owners have stepped up to be identified as the completed spin-off, Kodak Alaris:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...222197521.html

So now we can finally let the past be the past, allow the fantastic products they have to continue to be used and perhaps a positive, engaging dialogue of teamwork in regards to both the film maker and film user can help the whole idea of niche film use find solid footing in terms of the yellow boxes.

And please....keep in mind that all along, there have been the people in the mid to lower ranks associated with Kodak film who share our passions for film use. It is only *now* they truly have the chance they deserve to steer this all in a positive direction, including fresh new marketing ideas and beyond. Lets be kind to them and see what is possible within our own selves to become a proud and creatively prosperous film maker and film user partnership once again.

Last edited by KM-25 : 09-03-2013 at 14:57. Reason: Title clarification...
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Old 09-03-2013   #2
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OK -- looking forward to hearing what "film capture" products they will offer.
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Old 09-03-2013   #3
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I hope this means that we can see some new and exciting film products from the brand!
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Old 09-03-2013   #4
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I just want to see a steady production of portra long into the future.

Does this mean they now own and operate the film manufacturing facilities in Rochester?
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Old 09-03-2013   #5
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If the imagination can run rampant for a moment...4x5 Tri X in 100 sheet boxes, 8x10 in 50 sheet boxes and Panatomic X for starters...

ok, Im back down to earth now. Hopefully this will lead to great news on the film front.
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Old 09-03-2013   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KM-25 View Post
....keep in mind that all along, there have been the people in the mid to lower ranks associated with Kodak film who share our passions for film use. It is only *now* they truly have the chance they deserve to steer this all in a positive direction, including fresh new marketing ideas and beyond. Lets be kind to them and see what is possible within our own selves to become a proud and creatively prosperous film maker and film user partnership once again.
Yes, yes, yes.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 09-03-2013   #7
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Kodak Alaris - sounds like the name of a new drug.

For any comic geeks out there, I'm hoping this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Alaris_(Earth-616))

"He was genuinely having fun, unaware that he was being taken advantage of and didn't quite understand what he was doing."

In any event, I wish them all the best. But my (healthy) skepticism is still driving me to look for Kodak alternatives until I can feel confident enough that the stuff I currently use won't be discontinued tomorrow.
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Old 09-03-2013   #8
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Bring back Plus-X!
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Old 09-03-2013   #9
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Well that title made me think there was a new emulsion.

Looks like good news, I'd been wondering why they'd been so quiet, it makes more sense now that I know there's several sections to the organisation, I'm sure that takes time to organise.


I look forward to seeing what comes of this, and wish them the best, I'm a huge fan of the products, and it's nice to get some positive news!
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Old 09-03-2013   #10
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Over here in the colonies the employees and their pension plans usually get dumped on in so-called bankruptcy proceedings. I hope this is not the case here.
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Old 09-03-2013   #11
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It is my opinion...and strictly an opinion mind you that the current line up of Kodak film sells very well and with the retirement of E6 which is by far the type of film that is falling out of favor most rapidly, we might not see new films until things really calm down. If anything, I think it is fair that further streamlining of the lineup could occur in order to make the entire operation more viable long term if specific product types or formats fail to return a reasonable profit. If reasonable profit expectations are met with reasonable profits, then we might see things added on like larger boxes of 4x5 and 8x10 of existing emulsion types, etc.

So I think if we approach this like any smart film user would in that we all ought to want quality over quantity then we will end up with what we really *need* in life as an analog shooter versus what we have taught our selves to want via old and outdated thinking.

As warm and fuzzy an idea it is to think about, asking Kodak Alaris for new films is no different than asking Ilford to make color film, it puts the whole show at greater risk of financial failure. So we really should helping our new Kodak Alaris family further promote the current line up to help KPP stakeholders see a future in this medium and a better potential long term profit.

This is truly teamwork folks, Ilford went through a restructuring ten years ago and now many film using people go out of their way to say how proud they are of the brand and show great work with it. Kodak Alaris is the very same kind of emergence and if we treat them the same way, it not only helps KPP stakeholders, it helps Ilford and the *entire notion of film* as a viable medium stay in a positive light.

Think about how much doom and gloom there was even 15 years ago surrounding if film would still be here or not...and yet, we have far more films and papers than any of us would have ever imagined could possibly have survived.....it seriously looked bleak...remember?

This is not what is left of a grand heyday, this is a great place to be moving film forward from and it should be getting people more excited about what is possible.

We can't go back folks, so forward is the only way to see...
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Old 09-03-2013   #12
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Thanks for the encouraging post. Seeing commited people at the helm is a welcome sight.
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Old 09-03-2013   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekF View Post
Kodak Alaris - sounds like the name of a new drug.

For any comic geeks out there, I'm hoping this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://marvel.wikia.com/Alaris_(Earth-616))

"He was genuinely having fun, unaware that he was being taken advantage of and didn't quite understand what he was doing."

In any event, I wish them all the best. But my (healthy) skepticism is still driving me to look for Kodak alternatives until I can feel confident enough that the stuff I currently use won't be discontinued tomorrow.
This seems more like the truth of the "future of kodak"...A drug for those thinking there is some respectable retirement program for kodak employers.
Some hard facts:
It is the "pension plan" that owns the assets. In reality it means they have the factories, the raw materials and the existing stock of films, ready in retail packages. Once they have sold the old stock, maybe run the raw materials to new stock, more than likely-that is where the story ends.
The remaining Kodak company, as it is said in the bankrupcy plan, is not in any retail business, but transfers these businesses to the "pension plan" and thus is free of any obligations for paying the pensions to the workers.
It is more than likely the "pension plan" can not make film profitable as Kodak could not do it...In plain words, it is "kiss goodbye" to the old workers, something that is truly an ugly scene in american capitalism.
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Old 09-03-2013   #14
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Once Plus-X and E-6 films are back I'll be buying.

For now Fuji and Ilford take care of my film needs.

I tried Foma/Arista but not what I am looking for. I don't use color print film much either.

I am looking forward to trying out a 100 foot roll of AGFA 200 transparency next month. If it turns out like I hope it will then Fuji will take a back seat to it. Reviews have been pretty good.
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Old 09-03-2013   #15
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Having followed Kodak for pretty much a decade, I am not quite as optimistic about KPP's prospects. Kodak Alaris is a big entity and I think KPP will soon find that Kodak Prime did them no favors by handing the businesses off to them.

But hey, I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 09-03-2013   #16
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Yay! I'll be happy if the supply of trix continues. Then, if they want to bring anything back once they get going, HIE would be first on my list.
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Old 09-03-2013   #17
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It is more than likely the "pension plan" can not make film profitable as Kodak could not do it...
20 Jan 2012 Film division is still profitable, says Kodak

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...ofitable-kodak
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Old 09-03-2013   #18
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Originally Posted by Ranchu View Post
20 Jan 2012 Film division is still profitable, says Kodak

http://www.bjp-online.com/british-jo...ofitable-kodak
Hey! Stop introducing facts into a perfectly good collection of uninformed rants and pointless speculation!

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Old 09-03-2013   #19
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I think expecting the rebirth of favourite emulsions such as Plus-X is tilting at windmills.

If they keep producing what Kodak were actually manufacturing at the time of their implosion I'd be happy ... if it goes arse up there's always Ilford and the others left.

My motto is expect nothing and you generally won't be disappointed.
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Old 09-03-2013   #20
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It was the movie film production that was profitable, Roger... That`s what kodak kept...
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Old 09-03-2013   #21
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My motto is expect nothing and you generally won't be disappointed.
Mine too, but I've been since labeled a pessimist.
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Old 09-03-2013   #22
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It was the movie film production that was profitable, Roger.
Do you have a link that says the non-movie film production is not profitable, or no?
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Old 09-03-2013   #23
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Originally Posted by Rangefinderfreak View Post
It was the movie film production that was profitable, Roger... That`s what kodak kept...
From the january 20th article: "Film (still and cinema) remains a profitable business for Kodak"

I don't see why these products would be unprofitable as long as restructuring takes place. Someone else brought up Ilford as a model.
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Old 09-03-2013   #24
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Keeping tri x and portra, even thoughi barely shoot color ever, would keep me, and I'm sure many others, happy...
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Old 09-03-2013   #25
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I don't see why these products would be unprofitable as long as restructuring takes place. Someone else brought up Ilford as a model.
My impression is that Kodak's film production facilities are on a bigger scale than that of Ilford. Whereas Ilford is happy enough to pump out small batches constantly, it's not quite as economical for Kodak to produce small amounts.

Does somebody here have more insight on the matter?
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Old 09-03-2013   #26
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I just brought two new film cameras, so I'm glad to hear their planning new films.

Range
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Old 09-03-2013   #27
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My impression is that Kodak's film production facilities are on a bigger scale than that of Ilford. Whereas Ilford is happy enough to pump out small batches constantly, it's not quite as economical for Kodak to produce small amounts.

Does somebody here have more insight on the matter?
I don't see anywhere that the physical assets of EK are transferred. I think the Rochester coating plant is to remain in EK hands There are capital and environmental liabilities that go along with that facility, and it can handle all the world's film needs as it stands right now. It coats almost all the world's outstanding motion picture film stock, for example.

This deal is to keep the assets of the film and imaging division (less the motion picture and archival film products) in the hands of the pensioners numbering about 15,000. Their pensions are now dependent on some return from operations.

It is is hard to say if any film production of Kodak is profitable because they were selling hard assets to fund the company...until they ran out of assets and time and then bankruptcy. Realistically if you keep your factory going but lose 99.9% of your market you're losing money per unit or widget. The good part is post-bankruptcy they have no servicing costs. The down part is they probably have to purchase and sell x amount of product from Rochester to keep the lines going, and what has been dragging film use down is partly the rising costs of processing and scanning, not the manufacture of the film itself. The PP costs of film have been a huge issue for consumers because mass production of film requires mass consumption. All the home hobbyists in the world cannot keep those industrial production facilities humming.
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Old 09-03-2013   #28
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I believe it's illegal for them to lie about their profitability, plus it would be revealed in their financial disclosures to shareholders.
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Old 09-03-2013   #29
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Cool. Hopefully this is positive news! I love Tri-X, T-Max, and Portra.
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Old 09-03-2013   #30
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Good news. I really did not like the idea of spending 7k+ for a digital Leica.
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Old 09-03-2013   #31
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Usually when a company adopts a made up, Greek-sounding name, it's a bad sign that management has their heads in the wrong place (in the clouds). Guess "Kodak Film" just didn't fit their business focus

I hope they prove me wrong.
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Old 09-03-2013   #32
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I believe it's illegal for them to lie about their profitability, plus it would be revealed in their financial disclosures to shareholders.
Their statements demonstrate that they lump all capital assets and sales together regardless of which division they came from. Asset and cost-shifting is not only common it is perfectly acceptable according to GAAP and the SEC. If you look at Kodak's Q statements they consistently show their imaging divisions in huge losses for a decade and a mad scramble to sell hard assets to cover operational losses.

In other words: They sold land to keep the coating machines going.

Or another way of putting it: They sold land to make up for revenues that no longer came in from customers buying film.

That's what the books show. Nowhere does Kodak actually state how many customers they've lost. They provide no units, but the revenue fall has been almost total, as in a near complete obliteration, from billions/year in revenues (in 1980's $'s) to maybe a total asset base of $1 billion and revenues in the low tens of millions of $'s. The last dew Q's before the bankruptcy are hard to gauge because they started shifting divisional responsibilities, the big spin-off being motion picture film which used to account for something like 88% of revenues and now is down to a small % of that.

Kodak went bankrupt because they ran out of assets to sell and had too few other products to make up the loss of film customers.

The real fall in Kodak's film products came from the loss of motion picture film, especially distribution. That product line underwrote most of the coating systems.EK kept that product line. The pension system gets personal B2C products, while B2B and printers and pro imaging stays with EK. Why? Likely no one but the pensioners would buy the still film product division. It's all a shame, really. Fuji managed the transition to digital and could keep some analog products going.
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Old 09-04-2013   #33
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On my TRI-X carton is a text: made in U.S.A. fabrique aux E.U. Finished in Mexico for Kodak Brasilieira Com The film is, however bought in Germany... If you wonder the rather high price of TRI-X , I guess the emulsion is laid in Rochester, cut and packaged in mexico where it is shipped to Brasil, where it is gray marketed to EU and Germany.
I guess KPP has some rethinking for logistics for future in near program...
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Old 09-04-2013   #34
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I believe, they could rethink the production mode.
For me, people who shoot film nowadays already know what they want, and they would be reasonably happy to stock up on favourite emulsion once a year or so.
Just like Ilford is doing a once a year on demand run, so Kodak could do a similar thing. After all they own the patents for the emulsions, so it is a matter of being careful with the costs. I imagine, making a batch of B&W film products is pretty much the same procedure on the same machines, only the chemistry varies. They could call in the orders for Panatomic X or Plus X or whatever else, and reserve an option, that they will run the batch only when/if enough orders are present. Then they make the run, and sell the stuff directly to people by mail. This way, not only they would avoid waste, but would also bypass the intermediaries, so there would be no need to increase prices.

The last thought is a bit provocative - why don't they pool with Ilford and Fuji, to buy the patents for Nikon scanners from Nikon, and continue making the CS 5000 and CS9000 on the same, on demand, basis ?
This would really be something.
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Old 09-04-2013   #35
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"Kodak" itself was a completely made up name, so there is precedent . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenhao View Post
Usually when a company adopts a made up, Greek-sounding name, it's a bad sign that management has their heads in the wrong place (in the clouds). Guess "Kodak Film" just didn't fit their business focus

I hope they prove me wrong.
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Old 09-04-2013   #36
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This is truly teamwork folks, Ilford went through a restructuring ten years ago and now many film using people go out of their way to say how proud they are of the brand and show great work with it. Kodak Alaris is the very same kind of emergence and if we treat them the same way, it not only helps KPP stakeholders, it helps Ilford and the *entire notion of film* as a viable medium stay in a positive light.

Think about how much doom and gloom there was even 15 years ago surrounding if film would still be here or not...and yet, we have far more films and papers than any of us would have ever imagined could possibly have survived.....it seriously looked bleak...remember?

This is not what is left of a grand heyday, this is a great place to be moving film forward from and it should be getting people more excited about what is possible.

We can't go back folks, so forward is the only way to see...
Couldn't agree more!

Why can't more of us be more forward-looking?
It's too early to talk about profit this and that.
And we -- film users -- are part of the equation.

There is an empty bulk-loader in my closet, I could scour ebay to find an expired Plus-X, but since the new owners who align themselves with the preservation of Kodak films have taken the stand, I think I'll get some T-max 100 to support them.
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Old 09-04-2013   #37
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Producing film is a little bit different business than collecting orders and then shipping it away. Those master rolls are huge, need ripening period for maybe a year or more. Then they need to be cut and packaged. Do you think people will wait for their orders for a year or more... The European producers, Ilford, Harmann, Maco, Foma, Orwo/Filomotec are producing that stuff all the time. If Kodak England will be the producer, there will be the customs charge on EU stuff to America....
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Old 09-04-2013   #38
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Producing film is a little bit different business than collecting orders and then shipping it away. Those master rolls are huge, need ripening period for maybe a year or more. Then they need to be cut and packaged. Do you think people will wait for their orders for a year or more... The European producers, Ilford, Harmann, Maco, Foma, Orwo/Filomotec are producing that stuff all the time. If Kodak England will be the producer, there will be the customs charge on EU stuff to America....
I seriously have no idea what you're getting with these posts, other than it seems like you really want Kodak Alaris to fail.
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Old 09-04-2013   #39
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I think the message is to temper our expectations. When the KPP gets its act together, it will concentrate on products that will make the best profit, regardless of what fully depreciated capital assets they may have. This may or may not include the favourite films of a small and shrinking market, i.e. us. Time will tell, but if I were you, I would continue looking for sources of Fuji and Ilford products.

Cheers,
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Old 09-04-2013   #40
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I think the message is to temper our expectations. When the KPP gets its act together, it will concentrate on products that will make the best profit, regardless of what fully depreciated capital assets they may have. This may or may not include the favourite films of a small and shrinking market, i.e. us. Time will tell, but if I were you, I would continue looking for sources of Fuji and Ilford products.

Cheers,
Dez
I imagine most film shooters already know what's out there. I'll shoot Kodak until it's no longer an option.
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