Old 09-18-2012   #161
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Originally Posted by Fraser View Post
I think its getting too big with all those accessories, the way I use my M9 is to supplement my DSLRs not to replace them ...
i agree. when i look at the new M, i keep thinking, "why not a D600?"
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Old 09-18-2012   #162
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You're right, we're talking "Leica time," not normal camera time. though to be fair, many people are only now getting their D800Es.

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Ya.. not far when you think of "regular" daily life.

It may as well be an eon in terms of a product release cycle - then again, Leica isn't following a "normal" product release cycle and I guess we should be thankful for that.

I just look at other camera makers, even makers of other items - Apple for example - who announce and have product to market in a reasonable amount of time (a month to two months) .

Leica announces and then we wait for 4 months.....

But like I said, at least people can save their money to buy the new M.

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Dave
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Old 09-18-2012   #163
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Exactly, big is all relative. All you have to do is compare the M w/any full-frame dSLR.
hmmmm ... Leica: bigger, bigger, bigger ... and, yes, even an M8 seems big as compared to, say, an M6 ... and actually FF DSLRs are getting much, much smaller (just see the new Nikon and Canon releases) ...
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Old 09-18-2012   #164
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If you already have a dSLR, or need/want those features for everyday use, there's no reason to get the accessories.

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i agree. when i look at the new M, i keep thinking, "why not a D600?"
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 09-18-2012   #165
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The new "smaller" full-frame Nikons & Canons are still significantly bigger than the M (& let's not even get started w/the size of the lenses). If you really want small, you have to ditch both the mirrorbox/prism & the optical VF.

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hmmmm ... Leica: bigger, bigger, bigger ... and, yes, even an M8 seems big as compared to, say, an M6 ... and actually FF DSLRs are getting much, much smaller (just see the new Nikon and Canon releases) ...
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 09-18-2012   #166
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Exactly, big is all relative. All you have to do is compare the M w/any full-frame dSLR.
Which is not the point of any rangefinder right? I thought one big advantage is their size which keeps them unobtrusive and stealthy and light unlike their SLR counterparts...
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Old 09-18-2012   #167
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agree with John D., this is a camera that *could* see much documentary/photojournalist useage....if the price was *cough, cough* a bit more in keeping with our budgets

as well, while no fan of EVF, this would see alot of use in how I work, esp the variable angle. be nice if a a third party made one with a larger viewer, almost mf waist level-ish.

as idle speculation, if this could walk out the door for $5000, I'd get one in a heartbeat. but alas, that ain't happening...
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Old 09-18-2012   #168
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The difference in size to a film M is measured in millimeters ... in the real world it's bugger all! For a full frame camera with an optical rangefinder atop the M9 is a very small camera. I remember a few months ago when I was picking up my OMD from Camera Pro in Brisbane there was an M9 in amongst all the DSLRs ... it looked tiny!
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Old 09-18-2012   #169
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We are in violent agreement. If you want to use the M in straight-up HCB mode, you can. All the new features do (other than make the camera slightly bigger) is add dSLR-like (or, more accurately, mirrorless-like) functionality . . . if you want them.

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Which is not the point of any rangefinder right? I thought one big advantage is their size which keeps them unobtrusive and stealthy and light unlike their SLR counterparts...
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Five a Second. Chicago's Bell & Howell Co. (cameras) announced that it would put on sale this fall the world's most expensive still camera. Its "Foton" will take five 35-mm. pictures a second, sell for $700. Bell & Howell, which has found that "families of both low and high incomes now spend over $550" for movie equipment, hopes to sell 20,000 Fotons a year.
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Old 09-18-2012   #170
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Just think of all of the things that Leica's competitors have done with their cameras that Leica refuses to do. No sensor cleaning, no autofocus, sensors of unknown quality, NO weather sealing, subpar high ISO performance, slow buffering - the list goes on and on. And to top it off - ridiculous prices. And yes, volume helps. It helps quality control and brings down prices. Those are not bad things.
Not a single new idea from Leica and many common features omitted.
During the days of the M8, there was little mirrorless competition for Leica. Today, they are outclassed.
Hi Eric,

why don't you sell off your Leica M8, R8 and X1, be happy and get a life if Leica is so outclassed as you claim.
Enjoy all your other gear and stop complaining about this stupid company with that red dot which make so old fashioned tools for so outrageous prices .
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Old 09-18-2012   #171
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the 1st and only FF mirrorless

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I agree that there were no innovations per say, but the new Leica M certainly checks every feature anybody has ever asked for so far (and many other features some strongly opposed), short of an in-body sensor stabilization. It will appeal and sell to quite a larger audience this time around.
And don't forget, the new "M" is the only FF "mirrorless" around. The first and only. For people who care to use their FF lenses (M, LTM, R or whatever with adapter) on a FF sensor mirrorless: The Leica M is the only choice.
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Old 09-18-2012   #172
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Maybe I missed a comment in the previous 8 pages but did anyone comment on the spot metering capability of the M ilestone ?

Yeah sure, this is something relevant to getting most accurate exposure but hey, in the overall features discussed so far other topics like body size, high ISO and price are more important. And theoretical image quality discussions on the new sensor from which no one has seen an actual print yet.

I wonder if Leica displays any prints at Photokina. Anyone out there ?
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Old 09-18-2012   #173
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Maybe I missed a comment in the previous 8 pages but did anyone comment on the spot metering capability of the M ilestone ?

Yeah sure, this is something relevant to getting most accurate exposure but hey, in the overall features discussed so far other topics like body size, high ISO and price are more important. And theoretical image quality discussions on the new sensor from which no one has seen an actual print yet.

I wonder if Leica displays any prints at Photokina. Anyone out there ?
I noticed that for sure... It seems there are multiple metering options, but that you may need to use live view to enable them?

It will be neat when they not only project framelines, but can project a small, key amount of information: metering points, etc., into the rf frame.
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Old 09-18-2012   #174
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Essentially Leica really didn't have anything new for this Photokina.
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Old 09-18-2012   #175
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RFF needs the emoticon.
in case of emergency this one might be usable as well
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Old 09-19-2012   #176
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The new "smaller" full-frame Nikons & Canons are still significantly bigger than the M (& let's not even get started w/the size of the lenses). If you really want small, you have to ditch both the mirrorbox/prism & the optical VF.
the gap is narrowing to my dismay. compare the M9 to the FF DSLRs from that release period--and do it again today. the gap narrowing (in size and weight) is undeniable. it may not be a concern to you, but to each his own ...
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Old 09-19-2012   #177
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Thorsten's post talks about the buffer speed being greatly improved with Maestro processor. Not sure about all the negativity on the new M and accessories. If you want to be HCB don't buy the accessories. Me I am getting all the accessories because I will never have to hire an DSLR again for the odd times I want zoom, low light macro etc..
I can't wait and I am first in line at my local shop. My order for MM has been replaced with M.
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Old 09-20-2012   #178
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Why would I be dismayed? As far as I'm concerned, the smaller that dSLRs (& other cameras) get, the better. I happen to like & prefer the traditional optical RF/VFs to EVFs, but see no problem w/more options in the marketplace. Even back in the days of film, there was room for both Leica M & Olympus OM users.

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the gap is narrowing to my dismay. compare the M9 to the FF DSLRs from that release period--and do it again today. the gap narrowing (in size and weight) is undeniable. it may not be a concern to you, but to each his own ...
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Old 09-20-2012   #179
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And don't forget, the new "M" is the only FF "mirrorless" around.
No, its the only full frame interchangable lens mirrorless around.
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Old 09-20-2012   #180
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Why would I be dismayed? As far as I'm concerned, the smaller that dSLRs (& other cameras) get, the better. I happen to like & prefer the traditional optical RF/VFs to EVFs, but see no problem w/more options in the marketplace. Even back in the days of film, there was room for both Leica M & Olympus OM users.
Slightly off topic - but I would be happy when dSLR's match the size of the Pentax ME Super I used to own. (Oh, and why can't Leica produce a digital body to match the dimensions of an M2 or MP? I know it's only millimetres but........)
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Old 09-20-2012   #181
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This camera is likely to be my first DRF. Leica has fixed the things that put me off the M9 (at its price) and kept the price at the original M9 level. Its still bloody expensive, but I value the 'M way' highly enough to pay what they are asking for a camera which, if it delivers, will give me what I need.

Weather sealing (lenses you can CLA, fried electronics you cant), better battery life, better high ISO (TBC), better LCD (for the times I will bother looking at it) and hopefully a wider dynamic range for more of the flexibility I am used to with film (TBC).

The video they could remove as far as I am concerned, but i realise others will value it.

Less cluttered single frame lines is nice, as is a quieter shutter.

Well done for listening Leica.
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Old 09-20-2012   #182
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My guess as to why Leica can't make the M as the old film bodies is that they don't have the electronics expertise &/or manufacturing capability to do it. Another, maybe related, possibility it that doing so is possible but would require making the camera in plastic or in a form factor that was different enough that it would piss off the traditionalists who are already complaining about the inclusion of video, etc.

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Slightly off topic - but I would be happy when dSLR's match the size of the Pentax ME Super I used to own. (Oh, and why can't Leica produce a digital body to match the dimensions of an M2 or MP? I know it's only millimetres but........)
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Old 09-28-2012   #183
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Frame lines are lit with LEDs like the Leica M9 Titanium.
Are there any screenshots of the illumination?
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