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Roger Hicks -- Author of The Rangefinder Book

Roger Hicks is a well known photographic writer, author of The Rangefinder Book, over three dozen other photographic books, and a frequent contributor to Shutterbug and Amateur Photographer. Unusually in today's photographic world, most of his camera reviews are film cameras, especially rangefinders. See www.rogerandfrances.com for further background (Frances is his wife Frances Schultz, acknowledged darkroom addict and fellow Shutterbug contributor) .


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Death of a standard?
Old 09-01-2010   #1
oftheherd
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Death of a standard?

So sorry Mr. Hicks, both for the news, and that I have to be the messenger.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38902171/ns/today-books/

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/38627912/ns/today-books

But what's up with chimping not being added? Maybe they couldn't find the etymology?
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Old 09-01-2010   #2
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This is the (sad) reality of lexicography. I use both versions of the OED, the online at work and the printed at home. Even if the first one is a joy to use compared to many other online dictionaries, it can't beat the feeling of the 20 thick volumes in my bookcase!
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Old 09-01-2010   #3
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Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?
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Old 09-01-2010   #4
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Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?
Well, not a standard to follow, since the OED is a descriptive dictionary. But it is called "the definitive record of the English language".
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Old 09-01-2010   #5
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I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John
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Old 09-01-2010   #6
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"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451
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Old 09-01-2010   #7
oftheherd
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Does this mean that they will become collector items?
Perhaps. Check an ebay listing near you.
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Old 09-01-2010   #8
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Does this mean that they will become collector items?
I understand that they are already making copies of this from old Websters in the Ukraine, complete with military insignia
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Old 09-01-2010   #9
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Does this mean that they will become collector items?
Yes, but only if they have all their original packaging, have never been used and have a recent CLA.
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Old 09-01-2010   #10
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't'isn't dead; it is just on a different shelf ...
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Old 09-01-2010   #11
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Quote:
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I'm saddened.

One of the joys of searching for a word in the printed version of the OED was finding other interesting words on the same page, or in the search for that word.

John
Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!
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Old 09-01-2010   #12
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Kind of like searching for a certain frame in your negatives often leads to seeing an old forgotten shot in a new way!
Exactly.

Reminds me of a comment I once read about Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, which went something like:

"You probably won't find what you're looking for amongst its pages, but you will find several far more interesting things!"

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Old 09-01-2010   #13
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Death of a standard? Is the OED a standard?
Often copied, never bettered
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Old 09-01-2010   #14
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Isn't this a bit like film is dead and Leica is dead? The word may features heavily and that word usually translates as non story. In any case, how many people own the full set? One volume or two volumes on paper is enough for most users. The story reads more like a push for webscribers than anything.
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Old 09-01-2010   #15
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If you want a definitive record of the English language, just buy the plays of Shakespeare and Tennessee Williams. Any word you might want to use that isn't there isn't worth using.
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Old 09-01-2010   #16
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So a printed copy of a standard is now moving online, and that is death? PLEASE download my brain to the web so I can "die" like the OED...
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Old 09-01-2010   #17
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I have the compact version with tiny print, a real treat, and read with the magnifying dome. I enjoy a book on the physical printed page.
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Old 09-01-2010   #18
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I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?
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Old 09-01-2010   #19
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"Remember the firemen are rarely necessary. The public stopped reading of its own accord." -- Fahrenheit 451
Note that people nowadays people read more than ever before, it's just that they do much of it online.

And they're not phasing out the OED, they're phasing out the printed edition.

And I wonder if the idea would be all that final anyway, because there is a sizeable target demographic that likes things old, traditional and tangible - possibly not a lot of people, but many of them quite wealthy. Producing printed "snapshot" editions every few years might be well worth it.
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Old 09-01-2010   #20
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I thought the "real' OED was (I don't remember the correct number) 11 volumes?
The first edition of the OED, called A New English Dictionary on Historical Principles, was published in 1928 in ten volumes. In 1933, there was a one-volume supplement, and at this time the original dictionary was reprinted in twelve volumes and re-named the Oxford English Dictionary. A four-volume supplement was published between 1972 and 1986, and in 1989 there was an integrated Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition in twenty volumes. This is the current printed version of the OED.
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Old 09-02-2010   #21
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Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?
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Old 09-02-2010   #22
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Was it Plato who complained that books were ruining peoples memories?
"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.
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Old 09-02-2010   #23
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"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.
Great quote - Plato was surely prescient. What he is describing is how people read DPReview and buy their camera gear accordingly!
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Old 09-02-2010   #24
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Quote:
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"And in this instance, you who are the father of letters, from a paternal love of your own children have been led to attribute to them a quality which they cannot have; for this discovery of yours will create forgetfulness in the learners' souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will be hearers of many things and will have learned nothing; they will appear to be omniscient and will generally know nothing; they will be tiresome company, having the show of wisdom without the reality." - Plato, Phaidros, 275.

On a related note, cultural pessimism isn't what it used to be, either.
Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually
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Old 09-02-2010   #25
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Yep, that's the bit, it must have made an impression it's 30 years since I read it last.

There's some graffiti in Pompeii or Herculaneum that bemoans the "state of todays youths" ... well a bit more profane than that actually
Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?
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Old 09-02-2010   #26
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Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?
Didn't he say, "... those young wippersnappers just aren't as submissive as we were when I was a lad..."?
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Old 09-02-2010   #27
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Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?
Probably, they went to the same school
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Old 09-02-2010   #28
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Although a bit suburban, the writing in the older editions of Encyclopaedia Britannica's is fantastic. I'm not sure of the year the wheels fell off (mine is a 1953 set), but if you can find an old set they are wonderful. They sell for pennies and are priceless... like old negatives.

We call my farmer friend's battered dictionary, "Cooper's Google".

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Old 09-16-2010   #29
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Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version!
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Old 09-17-2010   #30
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Besides, a few volumes of the printed OED is perfect for flattening negatives. Couldn't do that with the online version!
Why didn't I think of that with my old Webster?
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Old 10-01-2010   #31
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Didn't Socrates talk about that as well?
Not sure, he did not write it down. ;-)

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