Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Digital Cameras > Micro 4/3 Cameras Olympus Panasonic

Micro 4/3 Cameras Olympus Panasonic This forum is for all Micro 4/3 cameras of any camera make.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

how bad is the omd 10 16mp sensor noise ?
Old 08-21-2018   #1
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
how bad is the omd 10 16mp sensor noise ?

Hello !
I like low light handheld shooting . I know :you'lla say go Fuji or Sony or FF
dxomark evaluation says the 16mp oly sensors are on par with the 14mp sony (nex3) ones ISO wise ( 846 vs 830 ) .And my nex3 does just fine at 1600 ,and even a bit more if necessary.
I frequently shoot in poorly illuminate spaces , ,usually static subjects , and need a smallish camera , no big lenses. I usually shoot with a X20 fuji compact , with good results for such a camera , but ...
My budget doesn't allow FF or the last stabilised a6500 ,and the 16mp X fujis don't have stabilisation on primes or body. And the zooms are a bit too big for me.

I need something small ,with fast lenses and stabilised. I am not a tripod guy.
So I found a omd em10mk 2 brand new, and several fast primes 15/1,7 ;25/1,8 ;45/1,8

But I still am not sure about how such a combo would perform in blue hour or night street photo situations.
I saw some very disappointing night shots on flickr , but I still hope those very noisy ones were because wrong settings.

I am curious about your experiences about this matter.
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2018   #2
majid
Fazal Majid
 
majid's Avatar
 
majid is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 612
M43 is terrible in low light. You'd be much better off with a Ricoh GRII or a Fuji X70, or even a used Sony RX1.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2018   #3
sevres_babylone
Registered User
 
sevres_babylone is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,123
I use or have used the following quite a lot:
M9, OM-D EM-5 (first version), X100T, Ricoh GR (and II), Sony A7SII

Obviously the Sony is the best for lowlight, and the M9 the worst.

In my experience, the Ricoh GR is a at least a stop better than the Olympus, the X100T a bit less than a stop better.

Other factors: The Ricoh GR isn't an interchangeable lens camera (nor is this Fuji).
The EM-5 is weatherproof, the others aren't.

I don't know how the EM-5 compares to the Olympus model you are looking at.

Here are some examples of night shots with my Olympus (for some reason flickr's om-d search included one shot with the OM-2): https://bit.ly/2N5BlY5
__________________
Visit me at Pbase
and at Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2018   #4
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
M43 is terrible in low light. You'd be much better off with a Ricoh GRII or a Fuji X70, or even a used Sony RX1.
Slower lens and absence of in-body stabilization will neutralize much of the advantages (if any) gained in high ISO performance.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-21-2018   #5
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
I took this at ISO 1600 with an OMD-10 mkii and Oly 25 1.8 lens @ 1.8

  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #6
JP Owens
Registered User
 
JP Owens is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Age: 69
Posts: 360
I shoot M4/3 extensively with Panasonic cameras (G85 and GX8) and noise up through 1600 really isn't an issue. The bigger issue is autofocus. Low light is their achilles heal. I always switch to the Canon D80 if I need fast, accurate autofocus in low light.

I used a friends Olympus EM-10 Mk II and found it has about the same noise and autofocus limitations as my Pany bodies.

Moving from M4/3 to APS-C will significantly improve high iso noise. But, along with that comes bigger lenses to cover that format.
__________________
_______

"Nothing exists beyond the edges of the frame."
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #7
Axel
Registered User
 
Axel's Avatar
 
Axel is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Germany, north
Posts: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by yinyangbt View Post
...

But I still am not sure about how such a combo would perform in blue hour or night street photo situations.
I saw some very disappointing night shots on flickr , but I still hope those very noisy ones were because wrong settings...
That is simply physics. Smaller sensors have smaller pixels and a higher density of pixels. So in direct comparison the bigger sensor wins always.
So if you see low-light pictures from small sensors taken with higher ISOs you will have more noise or the results of noise-cancelling algorithms.

I have made such compasions for my photography myself and I finally bought no fourthirds.
Really small cams are not soo much worse and really good APS-Cs are not much bigger.
Just my conclusion.
__________________
my photos here
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #8
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Very interesting discussion , thanks for your feedback !
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #9
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Owens View Post
I shoot M4/3 extensively with Panasonic cameras (G85 and GX8) and noise up through 1600 really isn't an issue. The bigger issue is autofocus. Low light is their achilles heal. I always switch to the Canon D80 if I need fast, accurate autofocus in low light.

I used a friends Olympus EM-10 Mk II and found it has about the same noise and autofocus limitations as my Pany bodies.

Moving from M4/3 to APS-C will significantly improve high iso noise. But, along with that comes bigger lenses to cover that format.
Interesting , many say the contrast af works better in low light . Are you referring at static subjects or dynamic ones (C-AF not interessed in these)
My EPL1was good enough fur my needs AF wise even if not great , and I suppose they made progresses in this time.


Exactly those big lenses are the ones I want to avoid !
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #10
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I took this at ISO 1600 with an OMD-10 mkii and Oly 25 1.8 lens @ 1.8

Looks great for me , thanks , do you have some more ? Eventually some 50% and 100% crops ?
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #11
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel100 View Post
That is simply physics. Smaller sensors have smaller pixels and a higher density of pixels. So in direct comparison the bigger sensor wins always.
So if you see low-light pictures from small sensors taken with higher ISOs you will have more noise or the results of noise-cancelling algorithms.

I have made such compasions for my photography myself and I finally bought no fourthirds.
Really small cams are not soo much worse and really good APS-Cs are not much bigger.
Just my conclusion.
The apsc cameras are really small these days (some of them) indeed. No difference here . It comes to the lenses dimensions ...Physics indeed.

I studied a bit the numbers in dxomark reviews , and there are some interesting things I saw there. There are only 2/3 stop better performance in High ISO between a6000 and omd 10mk2 (1347 vs 842)

Anyway , It is interesting to take into account the lens/camera combination which can lead to keeping a reasonably low iso if using good fast lenses and adding stabilisation (if using for static subjects as I do )
I learned this from the fast lens compacts with smaller sensors than mft that output surprisingly good looking files in low light.

In fact I'd love a X Fuji but their unstabilised primes and bodies kept me away until now. And I love my X20 compact
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #12
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by yinyangbt View Post
Looks great for me , thanks , do you have some more ? Eventually some 50% and 100% crops ?
Let me make a 100% crop for you. I don't have that many as I have, umm, lots of cameras and so hardly use this one.
(I bought it off Steve Huff super cheap! An offer I could not refuse). I will say it is really nice and a lot of fun to use, and I have had no problems with AF in poor light. And the Olympus prime lenses - 25 1.8 and 45 1.8 - that I have are astounding.
I'm not a fan-boi - this is not my primary camera - I mostly shoot film. But its size and responsiveness makes it really really nice to use.

100% crop 1:1

  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #13
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
This one is at ISO 2500, OMD -10 mk 11 with 45mm 1.8 @ 1.8

  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #14
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
This I think is actually more than 100% crop

  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #15
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
ISO 6400



FYI I always shoot in RAW and dev in LightRoom. I do not apply noise reduction.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #16
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
100% crop @ ISO 6400 with 45mm 1.8 lens

FYI the point of focus is actually on the little beastie's snout, so this crop is behind perfect focus. But the idea is to look at the noise, not the sharpness.



So now I think you have enough to decide, with actual samples.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #17
Prest_400
Multiformat
 
Prest_400's Avatar
 
Prest_400 is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sweden/Spain
Posts: 926
It's something I wonder about too, got an EPL2 and eventually would be looking to upgrade but perhaps to an EM5II with the HiRes mode... so it can double as film scanner.

I have a good experience with the simple IBIS and it is said that the 5 axis is impressive... which would offset some sensor size disadvantage.

I got a Lumix 35-100 f2.8 and it is very nice to have such a small and capable telephoto in a rather compact package. The system (arguably a large sensor compact may be better) compliments my Medium Format film well.
Under good light (1/500) I managed to even have good shots of landscape at 200mm equivalent, taken from a moving car.

A lens I wonder about a lot is the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 which seems to have woes with slow AF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #18
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
100% crop @ ISO 6400 with 45mm 1.8 lens

FYI the point of focus is actually on the little beastie's snout, so this crop is behind perfect focus. But the idea is to look at the noise, not the sharpness.



So now I think you have enough to decide, with actual samples.
These are great , I think ...
Not bad for 6400 that noise looks more like grain , wich I actually like !
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #19
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
The fact that these primes are so small and that there is IBIS for all , is a biiiiig factor to like .For me.
The Fujinons might be better maybe , but I don't look at photos at 100% (right ,I crop frequently) but they are also bigger , heavier and that means they're going to stay home instead coming with me everywhere ....
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #20
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 8,001
Here is 1:1 at iso 6400 from the in focus part!



The prime lenses are tiny, super sharp and the IBIS gains you speed.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #21
Scottboarding
Registered User
 
Scottboarding is offline
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Arizona
Posts: 99
I use the E-M5ii which has the same sensor, and while the high iso isn't amazing, it's really not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. I found the following lightroom settings suggested on Flickr and it makes a massive difference in quality:

Sharpness 25-30
Radius 0.7
Mask 50
Noise reduction Luminance 10-25 (higher iso higher value)
Detail 70-80
__________________
Leica M2 - Zeiss 50mm f2 Planar ZM
Nikon FM2n - Nikon F3HP - Voigtlander 40mm f2 SLii - Zeiss 50mm f/1.4 Planar
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-22-2018   #22
nickthetasmaniac
Registered User
 
nickthetasmaniac is offline
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,242
Quote:
Originally Posted by majid View Post
M43 is terrible in low light. You'd be much better off with a Ricoh GRII or a Fuji X70, or even a used Sony RX1.
That just ain't true...

I've been using Micro Four Thirds (GH2, EM5 and now Pen F) and a GR (mkI and now mkII) side by side for years. Sure, based purely on high-ISO IQ, the GR wins (although not by as much as you'd think). But IBIS, the ability to mount fast primes, an eye-level finder (so you can brace the body properly), and AF performance means that MFT is always my go to for low light.

Some after-dark documentary work with the EM5 (Sony 16mp sensor)





__________________
Ricoh GRII | Pentax SV, SP-F, MX & LX | Leica M2 | Olympus Pen F + 35RD | Minolta Autocord | Hasselblad 500cm + SWC/m

Instagram @other_strange_creatures
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-23-2018   #23
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottboarding View Post
I use the E-M5ii which has the same sensor, and while the high iso isn't amazing, it's really not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. I found the following lightroom settings suggested on Flickr and it makes a massive difference in quality:

Sharpness 25-30
Radius 0.7
Mask 50
Noise reduction Luminance 10-25 (higher iso higher value)
Detail 70-80
Interesting , thanks !
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-26-2018   #24
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
Wow !

My Omd em10mk2 came yesterday !!!
preowned , but practically unused , some 50-100 actuations , one year warranty .

I needed some time to learn the camera ... I got a 20/1,7 from a friend of mine , and realised that this camera needs a fast lens .The kit zoom is not for me. I set the camera and today I realised that it really can shoot successfully in low light up to 6400 , with a little help from Neat Image ��

But indeed needs fast lens. So , I do have now a problem :
I am set to get a 25/1,8 (the PL 25/1,4 is over my budget) , and finally realised that I am not willing to pay the price of a 15/1,7 PL even if I'd like the angle of view (I used a 20 on 1,5 crop and liked it)

The problem is that the 14/2,5 isn't fast enough -or is it ? I'd rather use a 28mm than a 34mm being wider , but I think I need the 1,8 of that 17mm ...mmmmmm I am frequently shoot relatively dark indoors like churches/cathedrals but also smaller places.

I am very attracted to the Oly 12/2 being also smaaall. I liked the 16mm on 1,5 crop, which is a 24mm equivalent .....But not attracted by the price , even SH ☺

I have to decide .... What sets of primes do you prefer ?
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-27-2018   #25
Dogman
Registered User
 
Dogman is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,534
I currently have an EM-1 for adapting my old Olympus DSLR E-series lenses and for the excellent Leica/Panasonic 15mm and 25mm lenses. I bought the camera for the lenses.
  Reply With Quote

Old 08-27-2018   #26
yinyangbt
MFL addicted
 
yinyangbt's Avatar
 
yinyangbt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Romania
Posts: 113
First step , for low light ,I'll probably go to a twin set ...
17/1,8 and 25/1,8 from oly plus the 14-42 II kit
plus mf for longer lenses , wich I allready have : FDn 50/1,4 FDn 85/1,8 Fuji X EBC 135/3,5 only have to get the adaptors ....

wishful thinking : the 12/2 from Olympus
__________________
All the best , Teo
http://photo.net/photos/TeoS
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:28.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.