Leica M3 and what 50mm lens?
Old 01-19-2020   #1
kshapero
Starting to get it.
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is online now
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,958
Thumbs up Leica M3 and what 50mm lens?

M3 just got a serious CLA (fixed a lot of nagging stuff). I would like to congratulate her with a new 50mm lens mate. What is the best fit for her? Leaning towards a 'Cron from her time period. But really open to any suggestions.
__________________
Akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #2
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
 
Phil_F_NM's Avatar
 
Phil_F_NM is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Age: 43
Posts: 4,100
V2 Summicron. AKA "Rigid". If you like focusing a little closer and don't mind the weight, get a DR and a set of goggles. Both of those are some of the finest lenses ever made, by any manufacturer, of any time period, including the present.
Phil Forrest
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #3
WJJ3
Registered User
 
WJJ3's Avatar
 
WJJ3 is offline
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hakuba
Posts: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
M3 just got a serious CLA (fixed a lot of nagging stuff). I would like to congratulate her with a new 50mm lens mate. What is the best fit for her? Leaning towards a 'Cron from her time period. But really open to any suggestions.
Nikkor-H 50mm f2!
__________________
Happy Shooting!
~Will

Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #4
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Washington, USA
Posts: 13,290
I'm sure you know there's a huge number of well-performing 50mm lenses to fit Leica M3. So, your thought about a time-relevant choice sounds appropriate. Summicron? Summilux? Elmar?
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #5
kshapero
Starting to get it.
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is online now
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,958
I hear the V2 Summicron. AKA "Rigid" calling me, but still interested in other options.
__________________
Akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #6
steveyork
Registered User
 
steveyork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Sunny South Florida
Posts: 748
So many good and great 50mm lenses in M mount these days; Leica, Zeiss ZM, Cosina Voigtlander, or get an adapter and use an old Canon, German Zeiss, Nikon, ect. It really depends on your taste. Not really a 50mm guy for rangefinders anymore, and I only own a late dual range Summicron now, but the 4th/5th optical version Summicron are great all rounders. Never had any issues with those lenses; they seem to do everything good. The dual range Summicrons have been hit or miss for me -- two I've used have been very good, one other not so much. I found the 50mm Summilux Asph too big, but great optics. I like the old Sonnars for their character -- the Canon 50mm/1.5 or any old Zeiss 50mm/1.5. They're smaller too, even with adapter. Tom A. use to really sing the praises of the ZM 50mm/1.5 (another Sonnar). The ZM 50/2 Planar is very contrasty. Voitglanger has interesting possibilities, especially if you're interested in super fast lenses. I'm always trying to tell myself how I really need a 50mm Nokton f/1.2. So far, I've been able to resist. And if you want to wait a bit, I have a feeling Voigtlander will come out with a 50mm f/2 ASPH in the next year or so. So many great, affordable options in this focal length. Sort of glad I no longer own an M3, because I would probably have a different 50 for each day of the month. Good luck.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #7
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
 
Rob-F's Avatar
 
Rob-F is offline
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The Show Me state
Age: 79
Posts: 6,263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
V2 Summicron. AKA "Rigid". If you like focusing a little closer and don't mind the weight, get a DR and a set of goggles. Both of those are some of the finest lenses ever made, by any manufacturer, of any time period, including the present.
Phil Forrest
A very good suggestion. And I concur that the Dual-Range Summicron, or DRS, with the very same lens cell as the Rigid, can also be a good idea, as Phil says, if you want the close-focusing capability. It goes as close as 19" with the goggles fitted.

I will add my personal favorite, the Collapsible Summicron. Very sharp when stopped down, and just a bit "dreamy" wide open. It's "soft-sharp" wide open, like they might prefer to shoot a romantic comedy. Look for one that does not have too much in the way of cleaning marks and scratches: the front element of the Collapsible is made of soft glass.
__________________
May the light be with you.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #8
kshapero
Starting to get it.
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is online now
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,958
__________________
Akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #9
Ccoppola82
Registered User
 
Ccoppola82 is offline
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 403
V1 or v2 Cron. V1 for bw. I just got a v2 Lux that I am playing with as well. The all around winner for me is still probably the v2 Cron.
__________________
Leica M2/M6
Hasselblad 500CM

Instagram
Coppola_Art
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2020   #10
f.hayek
Registered User
 
f.hayek is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 60
I've got a different recommendation that's faster than the Rigid, 1/10th the cost, contemporary of your M3 and arguably a phenomenal optic in its own right and up there with the Rigid or DR.

Canon 50/1.8 LTM
Attached Images
File Type: jpg C5018.jpg (29.6 KB, 15 views)
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #11
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
V2 Summicron. AKA "Rigid". If you like focusing a little closer and don't mind the weight, get a DR and a set of goggles. Both of those are some of the finest lenses ever made, by any manufacturer, of any time period, including the present.
Phil Forrest
YES. Find a good one though.

With enough money, 50 APO can not be better.

50 2.8 collapsible first version will make images very close to the version 2 Summicron.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #12
lcpr
Registered User
 
lcpr is offline
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London
Posts: 222
I recently got a 50 Summilux ASPH which works very well with my M3. I got it as an upgrade to my V2 Rigid, but after having used both for a while there are aspects of the V2 that I really like. The focus throw is a little more spread out on the V2 since it only has to go down to 0.9M which makes focusing in the mid ranges feel more precise, especially with the M3’s huge RF patch. I also prefer the bigger focusing ring on the Rigid compared to the tab + skinny ring on the ASPH, especially when I’m using them wide open.
__________________
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #13
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,834
VC Color Skopar 50mm f/2.5. Will focus closer and has a more "even" performance over the whole frame than the rigid. Balances much better on the camera, not as front heavy as the rigid. Availalble in true chrome or true black paint.

Erik.





full aperture/bokeh:


  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #14
LCSmith
arbiter elegentiae
 
LCSmith's Avatar
 
LCSmith is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 231
As Erik points out, the "handling" of the lens is an important consideration. The ZM Sonnar 1,5/50 is also quite compact and light.

If you want something in chrome, I do not think you would be dissatisfied with the aesthetics of the Nokton 1,5/50. It is a much bulkier lens than the Sonnar (bulkier is a relative term as they are both quite diminutive).

But the V.2 Summicron is my favorite. You should probably just get the Summicron.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #15
DominikDUK
Registered User
 
DominikDUK's Avatar
 
DominikDUK is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,047
Depends on your budget the rigid Cron or the DR Cron are a good fit.
If you are on a budget don't discount the 2.8/ 50mm Elmar it might be not that fast but it is a more than decent lens and from 5.6 on just as good as a Summicron
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #16
kshapero
Starting to get it.
 
kshapero's Avatar
 
kshapero is online now
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Age: 70
Posts: 9,958
Great suggestions all. Lots to think about.
__________________
Akiva

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kshapero

Cameras, Lenses and Photos
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #17
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 70
Posts: 1,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCSmith View Post

But the V.2 Summicron is my favorite. You should probably just get the Summicron.
The votes are in. If you are just going to have one 50 (the sane approach) for an M3, there’s a reason the v.2 Summicron gets the most votes. Sure, a 50 APO will “fit”, and it’s a “better” lens, but maybe that’s not the point of using a nice M3, or is the most direct route to pleasure for the kind of person who would choose to own an M3 in 2020 in the first place. Intangibles might be more to the point than MTF, size, cost, or any other considerations.
Feng shui. Harmony calls out for a rigid.
__________________
Larry

“It is about time we take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.” Elliot Erwitt
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #18
CharlesDAMorgan
Registered User
 
CharlesDAMorgan is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Plymouth, UK
Posts: 1,365
I have the dual range Summicron, which is exquisite, but in reality the close range hardly gets used. My red dot dropped off since this photo was taken, never to be found. There is something baroque rocket age about the combination with the M3 which I love.



I also have the ZM C Sonnar f1.5 which I think produces delicious photos but doesn't look quite so unique.
__________________
De-gassing progress:

Leica M2, Nikon D700, Bronica RF645, Leica CL, Summicron 40mm, Rolleicord Va, Hasselblad 500 CM Zeiss Planar, Leica 50mm Summicron V3, Hasselblad PME51 metered prism, Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 534/16 & Ensign 820 Special - all gone.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #19
j.scooter
Registered User
 
j.scooter's Avatar
 
j.scooter is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Toronto-ish
Posts: 1,355
My vote is for the Zeiss 50 1.5.
I have a silver one that goes perfectly with a M3, the only thing I am missing is a M3 (I am saving my pennies )

  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #20
f.hayek
Registered User
 
f.hayek is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 60
^^^ beautiful.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #21
sepiareverb
genius and moron
 
sepiareverb's Avatar
 
sepiareverb is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: St Johnsbury VT
Posts: 8,399
Elmar-M in chrome. The newest Elmar is a stunning performer, but still gives the package of camera/lens a vintage vibe. And it is a good bargain.
__________________
-Bob
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #22
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,987
For BW and kind of matching with M3 nothing beats Cron V1 a.k.a. collapsible. The rest of Crons after it are kind of sterile on BW, but good with color film.
I also used I-22, I-26M and J-3 on M3 and results were good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f.hayek View Post

Canon 50/1.8 LTM
Focus collar position at 1 m on this lens is not optimal on M mount camera.
I re-assembled the mount and disabled (reversible) infinity lock on this lens to have focus collar travel between 3 and 9 O'clock.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #23
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by sepiareverb View Post
Elmar-M in chrome. The newest Elmar is a stunning performer, but still gives the package of camera/lens a vintage vibe. And it is a good bargain.

Yes, this lens is sharp, but the image lacks "body", plasticity. There is only sharpness. I can't explain it better in words. The image is "thin", so to speak, maybe because there are only four elements.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #24
LCSmith
arbiter elegentiae
 
LCSmith's Avatar
 
LCSmith is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
For BW and kind of matching with M3 nothing beats Cron V1 a.k.a. collapsible. The rest of Crons after it are kind of sterile on BW
So you are the one with this opinion!
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #25
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCSmith View Post
So you are the one with this opinion!
You are the one with this opinion on my opinion. I have read similar to my opinions before.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #26
LCSmith
arbiter elegentiae
 
LCSmith's Avatar
 
LCSmith is offline
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
You are the one with this opinion on my opinion. I have read similar to my opinions before.
If that is the case, then so be it. Your taste is much more refined than mine. I have only heard of sterile photographers.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #27
DominikDUK
Registered User
 
DominikDUK's Avatar
 
DominikDUK is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,047
The Summicron V1 is the last of the old style (rendering wise) Leica lenses. It's somewhat close to the Summitar look and draws beautifully it is just not as sharp (still plenty) as the later Summicron's. This is the original Leica M3 lens and it has it's own unique look imo. So I somewhat agree with Ko.Fe. The drawback of the lens is that the barrel can be misaligned.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #28
aizan
Registered User
 
aizan's Avatar
 
aizan is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,784
My shortlist:

- Summicron collapsible and rigid for the perfect match
- Elmar f/3.5 in M-mount for cheap, retro thrills
- Summarit f/1.5 in M-mount for harsh bokeh
- ZM C-Sonnar and Planar for modern reliability
- Voigtlander f/2.5 for cool retro design
- Summarit-M f/2.4 for cool modern design
- Voigtlander f/1.2 for the speed
__________________
Ugly Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #29
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,987
Quote:
Originally Posted by LCSmith View Post
If that is the case, then so be it. Your taste is much more refined than mine. I have only heard of sterile photographers.

More modern Cron is, more common color film use was. Optical formulas were improved for it. Starting from rigid they are awesome on color film.
But somehow it was taking away Crons character on bw film.
Surprisingly Leica did awesome Elmar-M 50 2.8 and Summarit-M 35 2.5 on BW film.

BTW, I have also heard of blind viewers.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #30
albertospa
Registered User
 
albertospa's Avatar
 
albertospa is offline
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Italy
Posts: 87
I would like to give you a different suggestion. Personally I have an M3 and a 50 Summicron rigid, but recently I also bought a 40 summicron and it makes a great impression on this camera. No problem for the viewfinder, just use the whole framed surface.
The advantage?
1 - A slightly wider angle of view than 50.
2- A weight and a size much lower than the rigid 50.
3 - A minimum focus of 80 cm instead of 1 m of the rigid 50.
__________________
Ciao
Alberto

website https://www.albertospa.com/

flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/albertospa/
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #31
giganova
Registered User
 
giganova is offline
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,531
The Summicron Rigid are fabulous and period-correct for your M3. Unfortunately, they are not cheap if you want one in good condition. Be careful cleaning the lens, the front element has very soft glass and the coating comes off easily.

  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #32
f.hayek
Registered User
 
f.hayek is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
1] More modern Cron is, more common color film use was. Optical formulas were improved for it.

2] Starting from rigid they are awesome on color film.
But somehow it was taking away Crons character on bw film.
1] Agreed

2] Matter of opinion. The Rigid adds a clarity at f/2 (at least in the center at the plane of focus) that isn't seen with earlier Leica 50s. Your preference may be for the dreamy, low-contrast and lower acuity glass.The issue with the collapsible and Rigid are finding good copies without permanently hazed optics or scratched, soft front elements. They are now becoming very rare 65-70 years after introduction.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #33
Brianmc86
Registered User
 
Brianmc86 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 21
I have a DR Summicron but I've been thinking of selling it for a V5 Summicron LTM so I can use on both my M3 and IIIf. I think I'll be giving up close focus ability with the V5 lens unless there's an attachment that allows it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #34
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
The Summicron V1 is just not as sharp as the later Summicron's.
????????????????????????????????

Erik.

Summicron v1 Collapsible:

  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #35
dourbalistar
Registered User
 
dourbalistar's Avatar
 
dourbalistar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by WJJ3 View Post
Nikkor-H 50mm f2!
I'll second WJJ3's suggestion. If you also use digital, the close focus range is a nice feature. Seven pages and counting of image samples here on the forum:
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...ad.php?t=90034
__________________
I like my lenses sharp as a tank and built like a tack.

flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #36
f.hayek
Registered User
 
f.hayek is offline
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianmc86 View Post
I have a DR Summicron but I've been thinking of selling it for a V5 Summicron LTM so I can use on both my M3 and IIIf. I think I'll be giving up close focus ability with the V5 lens unless there's an attachment that allows it.
Or.....add a CV 50/2.5 LTM for the III and hold on to the DR, especially if it's in great shape.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #37
DominikDUK
Registered User
 
DominikDUK's Avatar
 
DominikDUK is offline
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 1,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
????????????????????????????????

Erik.

Summicron v1 Collapsible:


I should have said that common wisdom is that the Summicron V1 is not as sharp as the later version. In reality the sharpest lens is the tripod and differences in the sharpness between the different versions of the cron are not that great. I still believe that it has a bit less contrast than the other versions and that the rendering still has some qualities of the Summitar.
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #38
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 8,618
As this is one of those recommend the lens that I am using threads, I recommend, 100%:
J12
ZM Planar f2
ZM Sonnar 1.5
Summicron DR
Summicron Collapsible
Nokton 50 1.1
Sumillux Asph 1.4

Of course the one I recommend the most is the 7A 50 1.1:

  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #39
eli griggs
Registered User
 
eli griggs's Avatar
 
eli griggs is offline
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 533
Way back when I had a M3, it had come with a DR and goggles, and I never once felt the resulting images could be 'made better' by another 50.

Some cameras and lenses, are more like lovers, and just because newer might catch your eye, it does no mean it'll be a better fit to what makes you just plain happy.

IMO.
__________________
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert Heinlein
"The power to tax involves the power to destroy;...the power to destroy may defeat and render useless the power to create...." Also Robert Heinlein
  Reply With Quote

Old 4 Weeks Ago   #40
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
I still believe that it has a bit less contrast than the other versions and that the rendering still has some qualities of the Summitar.
Yes, I believe that too.

The Collapsible has a tonality all its own. You can see this in the pictures of Cartier-Bresson. A softer tonality often gives a sharper image than a harder tonality. It is as if a harder tonality pushes away extremely fine detail.

Erik.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 21:59.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.