Uncoated Summitar year
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #1
Steve_Pfost
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Uncoated Summitar year

I purchased a Summitar in nice shape the other day, slight haze which seems to be able to be cleaned but no cleaning marks. Anyway, I assumed it was from '42 with a serial number of #586667 going off of what I thought was accurate numbers on the internet. However, last week I stumbled upon a thread that contradicts that. The gentleman said those numbers and corresponding dates are inaccurate. Which makes sense, because of the war and all. The lens seems to be uncoated I don't see a tint of any sort of color on any of the glass. Can anyone help to tell me when would this lens have been made? late '45? early '46 or is it accurate to say '42? I would love to know a general history behind this guy.

Thanks so much!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #2
Dralowid
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I see no reason to doubt the year based on that serial number. Furthermore it would appear that Leitz record keeping remained largely unaffected by events.
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Yer of Manufacture
Old 3 Weeks Ago   #3
DennisM
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Yer of Manufacture

Per G. Rogliatti's book "Leica, The First 60 Years," your lens was made in 1942. The serial number range of lenses made in 1942 is 582,295 to 593,000.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #4
Steve_Pfost
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I figured as much. There is this thread up above on a sticky note where a gentleman who seems to be quite versed in knowledge of Lecia during the war who contradicted those numbers. So I was just curious as I like to know the history behind such items. Thanks for the responses!
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #5
PAN F
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I think there is a good chance that the Summitar production 1942-45 not being required by the German military, who mainly used 5cm Elmars, where held in stock by Leitz until the U.S army took over in 1945.
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Leica II (1940) - 5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941) - 3.5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941).

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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAN F View Post
I think there is a good chance that the Summitar production 1942-45 not being required by the German military, who mainly used 5cm Elmars, where held in stock by Leitz until the U.S army took over in 1945.
PAN F, that is an interesting piece of information that I have not heard before, may I ask the source? It certainly matches the observation that 'Heer' Elmars appear quite often.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralowid View Post
PAN F, that is an interesting piece of information that I have not heard before, may I ask the source? It certainly matches the observation that 'Heer' Elmars appear quite often.


I read about this on this forum.
please see Leica Tom's information in his postings on this thread:-

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=124748
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Leica II (1940) - 5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941) - 3.5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941).

Samsung NX11 - Carl Zeiss Jena 5.8cm f2 Biotar Serial No.3277937 (Early Rare 17 blade version) - and Samsung 30mm f2 Pancake lens.


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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAN F View Post
I read about this on this forum.
please see Leica Tom's information in his postings on this thread:-

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=124748
Tom pulled all our collaborated info on the IIIcK and Kugellager cameras from RFF in 2012 by deleting the thread he'd started with year's of posts in it, saying that he and another fellow would use if for a book on the subject.

Tom also said he researched the Leica archives for 15 years and as such knew a lot about serial ranges for wartime lenses and cameras.

After that, Tom bought himself a nice early VW Beetle and drove off into the sunset, nobody ever saw a book of any kind. Every now and then he emerges on Facebook when somebody acknowledges his now questionable expertise by calling him LeicaTom, but he's really not got anything to show for it anymore...


I say trust the list of serial numbers, until Leica allow somebody else to study their archives for 15 years or an otherwise credible source surfaces...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #9
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Ah yes, I remember Tom, the cameras, the pictures and the Beetle. As you say, he's moved on...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #10
martinjames
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I always wondered about Tom's assessment regarding those lens production years (and perhaps some other things, as well). I mean, it sounded plausible but I wondered if someone else really knowledgeable about Leica production, say, Jim Lager most prominently, had ever expressed agreement with Tom's explanation. Maybe we'll never know...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #11
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It is up to you to decide whether what you read on the internet is accurate. Tom would consider himself an expert on wartime production. I consider myself a novice with a particular interest in black conversions (and clockwork 8mm movie cameras).

I don't believe myself sometimes...
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #12
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Yeah, Tom's still posting VW beetle photos (actual cars and toys) on Facebook every once in a while. He does show up in the Vintage Camera Collectors FB group sometimes.
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Old 2 Weeks Ago   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinjames View Post
I always wondered about Tom's assessment regarding those lens production years (and perhaps some other things, as well). I mean, it sounded plausible but I wondered if someone else really knowledgeable about Leica production, say, Jim Lager most prominently, had ever expressed agreement with Tom's explanation. Maybe we'll never know...

I don't think Jim Lager is currently active on his own forum on RFF, it is a over 12 months (Sept 2018) since he replied to any questions about Leica's,
and there are a number of enquiries over the last 12 months that remain unanswered on his forum.
Perhaps Stephen (Head Bartender) might know if Jim's forum is still active.
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REGARDS, PAN F


Leica II (1940) - 5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941) - 3.5cm f3.5 Elmar (1941).

Samsung NX11 - Carl Zeiss Jena 5.8cm f2 Biotar Serial No.3277937 (Early Rare 17 blade version) - and Samsung 30mm f2 Pancake lens.


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