Old 01-11-2017   #201
FrozenInTime
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From what's been shown, it looks to me like the M10 will replace the M.240 family.
Other than lack of video, there seems no reason to keep producing the M.240 especially if M10-P, M10-D and M10-M variants arrive.
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Old 01-11-2017   #202
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They'll probably keep the M262 around as the "budget" or "starter" camera like they did with the M-E.
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Old 01-11-2017   #203
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Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
They'll probably keep the M262 around as the "budget" or "starter" camera like they did with the M-E.
M10-B(udget)?
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Old 01-11-2017   #204
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The M-E stuck around for a while after the M240 was released. There's no reason to think they'll quit making the M262 barely a year into production.
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Old 01-11-2017   #205
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Ouch, that's an ugly camera.
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Old 01-11-2017   #206
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Actually, I think the camera looks very nice. Won't be getting one for a while though, so my opinion is not as important as those with the $$$.

My next M will likely be a M240. Partly because of its visoflex, but that's not important here...
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Old 01-11-2017   #207
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Have you thought about an M 262?
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Old 01-12-2017   #208
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I wonder if I will still be able to use my secondary hot shoe arm adapter for studio work?
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Old 01-12-2017   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
for whatever reason he did that......
I was going for an M3 look:



All I was trying to do is to show how it could look like had they used a touchscreen following a previous post.

I know aesthetics as well as ergonomics are partly subjective but I like the second more:





If they had to place the buttons, then they did a better job with the Leica SL.

It doesn't really matter though cause I was never their target audience.
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Old 01-12-2017   #210
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I absolutely detest the S/SL button layout haha. Different strokes. But like you said, I'm not their target market. I'm too poor.
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Old 01-12-2017   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
I absolutely detest the S/SL button layout haha. Different strokes. But like you said, I'm not their target market. I'm too poor.
What I dislike is having dedicated buttons all over the camera that are vulnerable to pressing inadvertently, nearly unavoidable... an example of that is the Pentax 645Z. I rather like the S layout.
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Old 01-12-2017   #212
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I like the button layout of the M240 and I also like the flexible buttons of Leica S/SL. I don't want a touchscreen only.

The more I look at the images of the M10 the more I dislike the square buttons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by olakiril View Post
I was going for an M3 look:


All I was trying to do is to show how it could look like had they used a touchscreen following a previous post.

I know aesthetics as well as ergonomics are partly subjective but I like the second more:


If they had to place the buttons, then they did a better job with the Leica SL.

It doesn't really matter though cause I was never their target audience.
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Old 01-12-2017   #213
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Looks badass to me.
A more refined interpretation of a digital M; would also expect a substantial increase in battery runtime in 'old school mode' (no LV/no chimping).
Looking forward to the real-world user reviews along with the in-depth technical testing of this new device.
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Old 01-12-2017   #214
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Ouch, that's an ugly camera.
Looks rather beautiful to me, like every other Leica M.
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Old 01-12-2017   #215
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If this is an accurate photo of the next M model it would appear to me that it won't have live view so won't do video nor need an external EVF. And since the name appears to be M10 indicates to me that the M240 was an interim model until the SL came on the scene.

Those that want or desire liveview will need to buy the Q, T or SL.
It will have live view. There is a button on the back labelled "LV".
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Old 01-12-2017   #216
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It will have live view. There is a button on the back labelled "LV".
As stated earlier in the thread, I think that's the Louis Vuitton button, not live view...
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Old 01-13-2017   #217
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There is also the focus/zoom button on the front that is used with live view... There is still doubt about the video though, since the movie button is gone, but it may have moved to the unmarked main switch or a menu option.
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Old 01-13-2017   #218
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But there appear to be no holes for mic or speaker.
EVF and LV provide the electronic infrastructure anyway though, so I think it would be silly to remove the video facility, even if it cannot compete with dedicated video cameras.
I find it ii quite useful for occasional use and I am not alone. Who wants to carry a complete video system when it is not the primary purpose?

For instance I was traveling through Mozambique carrying just my M set. Sitting on the beach of Lake Nyassa suddenly this situation appeared. I was very happy to be able to record this memory, even if it does not meet professional standards. I think it enhances the purpose of an M camera as a travel companion. As an aside, video cameras do not have Summiluxes in general

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5ckWSAzB8&t=8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRXkRqBlBbQ
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Old 01-13-2017   #219
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I also hope that video is included in the M10 for exactly the reasons jaapv describes. I also have used the M240 for these types of situations. And, it sure is amazing to use Leica lenses to capture the video.

But, I can always take out my iPhone, so I can live without it. But, the iPhone doesn't even come close to the quality of the M. Video will be missed by me if not included on the me M10.

It makes no sense to me to include LV and not allow the live stream to be recorded to the memory card. I'm pretty sure the firmware is included on the chip set used in the new M10, so disabling it or not including it seems more like a design restriction than a technical one.

We had this same discussion before the M240 was announced and Leica ended up including it. We can only hope Leica has buried it in the menu somewhere.

36MP through a 75 Summilux would be gorgeous!!!
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Old 01-13-2017   #220
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Any rumors about the release date? My Leica dealer asked me yesterday if I want to pre-order one.
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Old 01-13-2017   #221
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And you're tempted to order one of the first batch? Fortunately I have a M240 and a new M-D262 so not currently suffering GAS pains. But 36Mp would be tempting... I would not order one now or for a while due to uncertainty, as there is very little in the way of information and too much speculation and guessing for comfort. Patience would be good I think until some early glitches are addressed, surely there will be glitches! Remember the strap lugs falling off, for example I would wait until the first firmware update comes out, but that takes discipline!
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Old 01-13-2017   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaapv View Post

For instance I was traveling through Mozambique carrying just my M set. Sitting on the beach of Lake Nyassa suddenly this situation appeared.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m5ckWSAzB8&t=8s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRXkRqBlBbQ

That was lovely. Thank you.
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Old 01-13-2017   #223
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are they ever going to come up with better places for the brightness sensor and video button?
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Old 01-14-2017   #224
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The M10 appears not to have a video button
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Old 01-14-2017   #225
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Looks like the drive mode got moved to the menu...

https://instagram.com/p/BPIYRcnjnB3/

That'll annoy some
I don't know what's so funny about it annoying some, but it sure will. It's a step down in usability. On most cameras I use continuous drive much less than for 5% of the exposures I make. With no direct control, I however see no other option than using continuous drive by default. I fail to see the advantage.

Of course, I'm sure there are people who never use continuous drive or the self-timer. And I'm sure there are those who use at least one of them, but switch so infrequently between the drive modes and/or in such slow-paced situations that a menu dive suits them just fine. I'm also quite sure there are users who do not wish to see their settings directly on the camera, while somehow being able to inadvertently mess up only those settings they have direct controls for. And some will simply love the simplified aesthetics of slightly less paint.
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Old 01-14-2017   #226
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are they ever going to come up with better places for the brightness sensor and video button?
Where do you see a movie button?
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Old 01-14-2017   #227
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I don't think the M10 will have video functions.
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Old 01-14-2017   #228
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Quote:
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I don't know what's so funny about it annoying some,
It's a winking emoji, not a funny smiling one.

Winking as in "a knowing wink"

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Originally Posted by Lss View Post
but it sure will.
QED, see?

Leica have made a new M

This in the broadest possible sense gave them 2 options

Change nothing
Change some stuff

Which ever one they pick, it's bound to annoy someone, he said with a knowing wink
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Old 01-14-2017   #229
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QED, see?
Yes, it is clear that stupid decisions often result in criticism.
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Old 01-14-2017   #230
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Yes, it is clear that stupid decisions often result in criticism.
Yes, but is it clear to you what I meant by ?

And I in principle I don't disagree - one of Leica's USPs is this simplistic; 'no need for the menu' rhetoric - so moving things that were once external to the menu was never going to garnish across the board approval

Shall I insert another knowing wink? Meh best not
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Old 01-14-2017   #231
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Yes, but is it clear to you what I meant by ?
Sure, you gave the answer above.
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Old 01-14-2017   #232
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Wink

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Originally Posted by Lss View Post
...Of course, I'm sure there are people who never use continuous drive or the self-timer....
Yes indeed! (stick-on cabinet bumper cut as needed)
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Old 01-14-2017   #233
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^ this is awesome, I have never used continuous, self timer or video feature on my m240.
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Old 01-14-2017   #234
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It will have live view. There is a button on the back labelled "LV".
Yep, I stand corrected. Maybe just the video feature has been removed. But I do understand the advantage of LV when using wide angles and those with challenging vision issues.
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Old 01-14-2017   #235
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The M10 appears not to have a video button
doh! the focus button, rather.
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Old 01-15-2017   #236
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Video?

Panasonic makes some of the electronics for the M10 and they know video. It would be an unforgivable omission for Leica to leave out Panasonic's amazing video. I would doubt they would do that?
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Old 01-15-2017   #237
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Video is best left to µ43 where the combination three image stabilization technologies play well: in body multi axis sensor shift ; electronic pixel shifting and in lens shift.
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Old 01-15-2017   #238
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I think if Leica continues to go backwards in time..charging a mint for stripped down cameras..its going to catch up with them sooner than they think..
If they are going to provide featureless cameras..then they need to lower their prices on those models..
and have another upscale line with video etc..as most people are going to want this as an option sooner or later..and good 4K video too..not some afterthought..and in an M too..not just the SL...
This M10 is a nonstarter for me most likely..not going to pay that kind of change for a once in awhile non video cam..just for stills..
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Old 01-15-2017   #239
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@FrozenInTime, all of those things can be taken care of with a decent video tripod. And, 4/3 is not really a match to FF sensor and Leica glass. But, I do get what you are saying and Panasonic makes a new camera that does a great job with video. Leica should use those strengths from Panasonic and make better video than what they did with the M240 which could make decent video, for a first try from Leica.
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Old 01-15-2017   #240
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Just the essentials! Note the typ 262 models don't have video either. Maybe Leica is reserving video for their non-M cameras and withdrawing that feature from the M line?
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