Leica M240 Wakeup Time
Old 12-30-2014   #1
georgeqiao
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Leica M240 Wakeup Time

I have to say, so far the only big complaint I have about the M240 is the wake-up time. It is a big step back. I missed shots many times due to the slow wake-up time, even when I do not turn off the camera. I remember it was not the case with the Monochrom. The Monochrom I can shoot whenever I press the shutter, despite the loud music of its sound.

Does anyone know whether the M-P 240 solved this problem?

George
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Old 12-31-2014   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeqiao View Post
I have to say, so far the only big complaint I have about the M240 is the wake-up time. It is a big step back. I missed shots many times due to the slow wake-up time, even when I do not turn off the camera. I remember it was not the case with the Monochrom. The Monochrom I can shoot whenever I press the shutter, despite the loud music of its sound.

Does anyone know whether the M-P 240 solved this problem?

George
Due to other recommendations I also switched to a "SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC 64GB Class 10 95 MB/s" and with this the startup time is much quicker!
The leica forum is full with that hints also... see: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...ca-m-type-240/

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Old 12-31-2014   #3
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Yes i would use a fast SDHC or SDXC card of 8, 16 or 64GB (32 GB look slower for some reason) or an old SD card of 1 or 2GB, format it with SD Formatter and disable the sleep mode ("Auto Power Off" to "Off") if need be. You will notice a significant improvement then. Couple of tests here: http://*******.com/kp8qe83.
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Old 12-31-2014   #4
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Quote:
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Yes i would use a fast SDHC or SDXC card of 8, 16 or 64GB (32 GB look slower for some reason) or an old SD card of 1 or 2GB, format it with SD Formatter and disable the sleep mode ("Auto Power Off" to "Off") if need be. You will notice a significant improvement then. Couple of tests here: http://*******.com/kp8qe83.
Thanks a lot for sharing!
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Old 12-31-2014   #5
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Does this advice apply to M8's? I always felt mine was quite slow esp compared to my D610.
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Old 12-31-2014   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCT View Post
Yes i would use a fast SDHC or SDXC card of 8, 16 or 64GB (32 GB look slower for some reason) or an old SD card of 1 or 2GB, format it with SD Formatter and disable the sleep mode ("Auto Power Off" to "Off") if need be. You will notice a significant improvement then. Couple of tests here: http://*******.com/kp8qe83.
Thanks a lot for sharing this!
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Old 12-31-2014   #7
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It's been a long time since I had an M8, but no, a faster card will do nothing to help w/the M8 or M9.

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Does this advice apply to M8's? I always felt mine was quite slow esp compared to my D610.
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Old 12-31-2014   #8
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It's been a long time since I had an M8, but no, a faster card will do nothing to help w/the M8 or M9.
I do notice that my M9 is slightly slower to start up with the 32G card I fitted compared to the 16G I was using before despite the cards being rated the same speed. I haven't done measurements, but just might.

G
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Old 12-31-2014   #9
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Thanks!! This is very very helpful. BTW, what is SD formatter?
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Old 12-31-2014   #10
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It is a free software program developed by the SD Association to format SD cards and is available here: https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter_4/
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Old 12-31-2014   #11
georgeqiao
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I tried it, and it worked wonders. I am using a 95mb/s Sandisk card. Turning off the auto power off function, surely now I can shoot as quickly as in previous generations of cameras.
Thank you so much. You solved a huge mystery for me.
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Old 01-01-2015   #12
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You're welcome. I would think to switch off the camera after shooting though failing which your battery could drain.
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Old 02-28-2015   #13
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Just wonder will M240-P with 2gb buffers encountering the similar issue?
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Old 02-28-2015   #14
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One thing that can help is to format the card in the camera. For whatever reason, all digital cameras' wakeup times are exacerbated by using a card formatted in another camera. And when you are done importing, format the card when it is back in the camera. That, and using very fast SanDisk cards.

Unfortunately, when my M240 is slow waking up, it's because the main switch is actually "off."

Dante
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Old 04-03-2015   #15
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There's lots of good info and contributions from M 240 users on this thread, but I find the mythos around SD cards somewhat contradictory ... some people recommend using the SD Card Formatter utility, some people recommend using the in-camera format function.

So which one is better?

Personally I have tried both with my M 240 and haven't noticed any difference. Start-up times and write times have remained the same -- no matter what formatting system I've used.

IMHO I think that ultimately it's the brand and speed / capacity of the SD card that makes all the difference.

FWIW I'm using a Lexar Professional 16GB Class 10 / U3 card with 150MB/second transfer speed. It is one of the fastest cards currently available, and not expensive. I think I paid around $30 on Amazon for mine.
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Old 04-03-2015   #16
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I've noticed that the M-P wakes up from sleep just a hair more slowly than my M9 used to with the same (fast) 32G card. I haven't found it to be an annoyance, however; the camera is much more responsive in every other operation.

G
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Old 01-03-2016   #17
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I haven't seen anyone mention formatting their card as exFat.

The fastest startup time I was able to achieve, from turning the camera on to being able to make an image with the M262, was 1.6 seconds. That was with a Panasonic Gold 8GB card.

Time of other cards I tested:

16GB Sandisk Extreme Pro (95MB/s): 1.8 seconds
16GB Panasonic Gold: 1.9 seconds
16GB Samsung Pro (white card): 1.75 seconds

In order to measure the time I turned on the camera while holding down the shutter button. I recorded this on video. The audio was imported into Audacity, which allowed me to "see" the sound of the on switch and end with the sound of the shutter opening. The audio spikes in Audacity allowed for a precise measurement.

Formatting the SD Card as exFat is the key. I also tried SD Card Formatter alone and in conjunction with formatting in the camera. That didn’t seem to make any difference. Once I formatted the cards as exFat I recorded my fastest start-to-shoot times. The 16GB Panasonic’s start-to-shoot time when the card was formatted only in the camera at the card's default MSDOS FAT format was 5.2 seconds. Formatting the card first in my computer as exFAT, then formatting the card in the camera reduced the startup time on this card to 1.9 seconds.

Try it on your M240's and see if the startup to shoot times drop below 2 seconds.
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Old 01-03-2016   #18
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For me, the startup seems to depend very much on the number of images on the sd card. After a lengrhy discussion, I tried different cards, as suggested, different methods to format (in camera, only delete in camera but not format, use SD formatter, ...), but nothing of that made any difference. The slowest card I used had only very little slower startup time as the fastest cards I tried.

With really many pictures on the card, I had sometimes startup times of way over 10 seconds from off to first shot... You may like to read this thread with measured times and some replies to them:
http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/s...d.php?t=153242

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Old 01-04-2016   #19
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That is weird and there might be something wrong with the camera. My 240 starts up in 1.5 seconds consistently using Lexar Pro 600x and 1000x , Panasonic Gold and Sandisk various types are a bit slower at about 2 seconds. All 16GB cards, formatted exFat.
But 10 seconds? Never, in no circumstances, in over 10.000 shots...
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Old 01-04-2016   #20
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Quote:
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That is weird and there might be something wrong with the camera. My 240 starts up in 1.5 seconds consistently using Lexar Pro 600x and 1000x , Panasonic Gold and Sandisk various types are a bit slower at about 2 seconds. All 16GB cards, formatted exFat.
But 10 seconds? Never, in no circumstances, in over 10.000 shots...
Yes, I know, we had that discussion already... I can get a slow (compared to other cameras) but acceptable startup time around the time, that you mention, when the card is freshly formatted. It does make no difference, if formatted in camera or with SD formatter.

BUT if the card contains several thousand of RAWs already, I get these very slow startup times. This is not dependent on the write speed of the card, as I tested several cards as recommended in my and another thread.

I wrote to Leica customer service, but it seems, that with those preconditions, they don't see any problem with my camera, as they did not answer my question, if this is normal.
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Old 01-04-2016   #21
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Several thousand? What kind of card do you use? And what do you do if the card crashes? Believe me, it happens...
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Old 01-04-2016   #22
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Originally Posted by jim0266 View Post
I haven't seen anyone mention formatting their card as exFat.

The fastest startup time I was able to achieve, from turning the camera on to being able to make an image with the M262, was 1.6 seconds. That was with a Panasonic Gold 8GB card.

Time of other cards I tested:

16GB Sandisk Extreme Pro (95MB/s): 1.8 seconds
16GB Panasonic Gold: 1.9 seconds
16GB Samsung Pro (white card): 1.75 seconds

In order to measure the time I turned on the camera while holding down the shutter button. I recorded this on video. The audio was imported into Audacity, which allowed me to "see" the sound of the on switch and end with the sound of the shutter opening. The audio spikes in Audacity allowed for a precise measurement.

Formatting the SD Card as exFat is the key. I also tried SD Card Formatter alone and in conjunction with formatting in the camera. That didn’t seem to make any difference. Once I formatted the cards as exFat I recorded my fastest start-to-shoot times. The 16GB Panasonic’s start-to-shoot time when the card was formatted only in the camera at the card's default MSDOS FAT format was 5.2 seconds. Formatting the card first in my computer as exFAT, then formatting the card in the camera reduced the startup time on this card to 1.9 seconds.

Try it on your M240's and see if the startup to shoot times drop below 2 seconds.
Thank you for that. Very interesting that formatting in camera retains the exFAT file system (just tried).

Roland.
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Old 01-04-2016   #23
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Quote:
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Several thousand?
When I measured the about 12s from off to first shutter release, I had only 1900 RAWs on a 64GB card. But I sometime happen to have many more.

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What kind of card do you use?
64GB and 128GB (class 10 SanDisk Extreme, Transcend SDXC UHS-I U3 64GB, Lexar Professional 128GB 1000x Speed SDXC UHS-II)

SanDisks are the slowest of these types, but they all differ only very little in that regard. Only when transferring to computer, the faster cards really show their speed.

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And what do you do if the card crashes?
I'm taking another one out of my pocket. I have plenty of them... Also, of course, at least once a day (often more than that) I transfer all files to a computer, which in turn is saved on three hierarchical backup systems from hourly (TimeMachine on Mac), daily and weekly. - You know besides taking pictures, I'm a totally paranoid computer scientist regarding data safety. I had my experiences...

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Believe me, it happens...
I know... That is why I only delete data, when necessary, i.e. when the card is full. Also I rotate SD cards every day and from time to time buy new ones.
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Old 01-04-2016   #24
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Not a 240 owner but interested to learn, if awaking time depends on the number of files on the cards how many should be the maximum in order to have a reasonable short waking up time?
I usually never have more than a few hundreds (200 jpgs+200 dng on my Leica x1) .

robert
PS: of course keeping other variables unchanged (same sd card)
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Old 01-04-2016   #25
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Not a 240 owner but interested to learn, if awaking time depends on the number of files on the cards how many should be the maximum in order to have a reasonable short waking up time?
I usually never have more than a few hundreds (200 jpgs+200 dng on my Leica x1) .
A few hundred should not be a problem, if you can live with 1,5~3 seconds startup time.

Since creating real world test cases for this phenomenon is obviously very time consuming (and back breaking for the hardware...) I can not really prove, but I suspect, that the algorithmic problem behind the startup time has O(n^2).

What puzzles me, is why it depends on the number of files at all... Why does the camera need to read from the SD card, when starting up? Other digital cameras I checked, are independent from the number of files on the card.
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Old 01-04-2016   #26
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After problems with card compatability on the M9 Leica does a startup check of the card.
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Old 01-04-2016   #27
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After problems with card compatability on the M9 Leica does a startup check of the card.
That makes sense. However, it is obviously not implemented very smart... It would be enough to check the file system struct and read the directory contents of the top level directory (finding DCIM/ ) instead of the directory containing the files. If this works, then there is no problem to read the files, since both (reading the directory struct and reading files) need the same type of low level operations of reading block data.

Also, I wonder, if this is not possible to do as a background task or in interrupt routines, as even the most basic micro controllers have the ability to execute some time slice or interrupt based multitasking (I work with lowest power µC in automotive - the M240 controller is like a mainframe compared to that, so I'm sure, the computational capacity is there).
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Old 01-04-2016   #28
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Well, the problem of the M9 was corrupted files, as I understand it because of a different interpretation of the SD standard by some SD card makers. That is the reason that Panasonic Gold cards work so well on the M9, the card controller does an internal read-write check, it seems.
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Old 01-04-2016   #29
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Thanks for passing on the info about the exFat formatting, I'll have to try that.
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