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Old 06-02-2019   #81
Peter Wijninga
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Let's go to bed.
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Old 06-03-2019   #82
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https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...hreadid=166544

"Some M2 bodies are susceptible to this very specific type of light leak. "
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Old 06-03-2019   #83
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...hreadid=166544

"Some M2 bodies are susceptible to this very specific type of light leak. "
And M3's don't get light leaks?
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Old 06-03-2019   #84
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I prefer 50mm, but I like the M2 over the M3 because I wear glasses and can see the 50 frame lines easier on the M2.
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Old 06-04-2019   #85
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I do not wear glasses, and “therefore, the M3 must be the superior M camera”.
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Old 06-04-2019   #86
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I second raid. No glasses and 50 shooter, no better camera than the M3.
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Old 06-04-2019   #87
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Originally Posted by Mute-on View Post
Ahhhhhhhhh, yep.

You are killing me, Will
This Macro Elmar is a real joy to own and use, especially on my close focus modified M3. I used an M-Rokkor 90 for about 7 years before I upgraded to the MEM. That is also a fantastic M mount tele.
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Old 06-04-2019   #88
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And M3's don't get light leaks?
Not thru the rf mechanism like the M2 can. Apparently the parts r not the same - stuff is cheaper (obvious example is the film counter). Obviously it only affects a few so perhaps a fit issue with those in conjunction w the diff parts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leica_M2

“The rangefinder system was also simplified from that of the M3 and this made it potentially more prone to rangefinder flare. The M2 has a rangefinder with a 0.72 magnification and framelines for 35, 50 and 90mm lenses instead of the 0.91 magnification and 50, 90 and 135mm framelines of the M3. This made it better suited for photojournalists who favour shorter lenses or for spectacle-wearers using a 50mm lens who sometimes find it difficult to see the framelines on the M3. The ground glass frameline illumination window of the M3 was replaced with a fresnel-type plastic lens. Finally, the ornate beveling around the various windows on the front of the M3 were flattened on the body of the M2. Unlike the M3, the widest framelines were not always visible so only one set of framelines were ever displayed at one time. “
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Old 06-04-2019   #89
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OK.
Huss has just proven that the M3 rules!
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Old 06-04-2019   #90
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OK.
Huss has just proven that the M3 rules!
Not if you want to use 35mm lenses w/o goggles or external finders!

I’m just pointing out the build differences.

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Old 06-04-2019   #91
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Without M3 there would have been no M2.


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Old 06-04-2019   #92
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Leica M3, Cooke Amotal 2'' f/2, 400-2TMY.

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Old 06-08-2019   #93
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The "review" is highly subjective being based entirely on opinion. It's a complete waste of time, in my opinion.

I've owned and shot dozens of Leica M film cameras - in fact, all of the incarnations except the M-A (which I don't get at all BTW). Although my personal favorite is, in fact, the M2, I will freely admit it is entirely due to intangibles - none of which I will defend.

OTOH, my distant second favorite would be the M6 classic, which is based entirely on practicality (tangibles).
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Old 06-12-2019   #94
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Stopped reading after "M3 is ugly" Click-bait internet junk.
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Old 06-12-2019   #95
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Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
..in fact, all of the incarnations except the M-A (which I don't get at all BTW). ...
The M-A has the best frame lines out of any of the modern M cameras.
This is because as it does not have a light meter, the bottom horizontal frame line is solid/complete. The Leicas that have a meter readout do not have a complete bottom frame line as that is where the exposure values are displayed.

It makes for an excellent viewing and framing experience.
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Old 06-12-2019   #96
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The M-A has the best frame lines out of any of the modern M cameras.
This is because as it does not have a light meter, the bottom horizontal frame line is solid/complete. The Leicas that have a meter readout do not have a complete bottom frame line as that is where the exposure values are displayed.

It makes for an excellent viewing and framing experience.

. . . . Except the ZI which has an unlcuttered viewfinder without all the extra Leica framelines.
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Old 06-12-2019   #97
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. . . . Except the ZI which has an unlcuttered viewfinder without all the extra Leica framelines.
where can I buy a new one?
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Old 06-13-2019   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The M-A has the best frame lines out of any of the modern M cameras. This is because as it does not have a light meter, the bottom horizontal frame line is solid/complete. ...
Since it's, by all accounts, an MP without a meter, I'd have a very difficult time justifying the cost of buying even a used one. An early M4-P has everything you describe with all six framelines. Yea, I know it doesn't have the RF condenser "fix", but that's a $150 add-on during a CLA (through DAG).

At a third the cost of an M-A that'd be the ticket for me; or I could have M4-P framelines installed in my M2 (currently with that unlcuttered viewfinder without all the extra Leica framelines).
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Old 06-14-2019   #99
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Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
Since it's, by all accounts, an MP without a meter, I'd have a very difficult time justifying the cost of buying even a used one. An early M4-P has everything you describe with all six framelines. Yea, I know it doesn't have the RF condenser "fix", but that's a $150 add-on during a CLA (through DAG).

At a third the cost of an M-A that'd be the ticket for me; or I could have M4-P framelines installed in my M2 (currently with that unlcuttered viewfinder without all the extra Leica framelines).
U make a valid argument for buying a used Leica. I love my beater M4-2 and it has frame lines arguably better than the M-A. They are bolder/thicker. But any new M just feels tighter, fresher, unworn and new.

Your used Leica would not exist if Leica did not sell new Ms. You could never have your M2 if someone else didn't buy it new.
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Old 06-14-2019   #100
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As far as I know are the framelines of the M4-2 and later (all the models after the M5) less precise than those of all the earlier M camera's. This is because there are too many framelines in them, so there was no space to make them as precise as those in the M2, M3, M4 and M5.

So when one does not need a lightmeter it is better to use an M2, M3 or M4 if the precision of the framelines is important.

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Old 06-14-2019   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
... any new M just feels tighter, fresher, unworn and new. ...
In my experience a freshly CLA'd "mint" Leica M feels and shoots tight and sometimes better than new - again, in my experience. When the MP first came out I bought one of the first .85 models; it had to go back to the factory because the shutter speeds were off (they essentially had to do a CLA on it).
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
As far as I know are the framelines of the M4-2 and later (all the models after the M5) less precise than those of all the earlier M camera's. ... too many framelines in them. ...
I don't recall when Leica adjusted the framelines, but the M4-P was the first with six framelines. Even so, Leica has said they adjusted the framelines (it seems to me it was in the middle of M4-P production) to be maximized by certain distances and had nothing to do with being paired.
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
... You could never have your M2 if someone else didn't buy it new.
Yes, that's stating the obvious. I suppose if you're making a life-long purchase, paying three times that of used really wouldn't matter that much in the long-term view - particularly if you're talking about a film M camera, which should outlast your grandchildren (the ability to buy and process film notwithstanding).
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Old 06-14-2019   #102
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Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
I don't recall when Leica adjusted the framelines, but the M4-P was the first with six framelines. Even so, Leica has said they adjusted the framelines (it seems to me it was in the middle of M4-P production) to be maximized by certain distances and had nothing to do with being paired.
I don't know if you ever tried an M-Leica newer than the M4-2. That camera in itself was not entirely reliable - the machines on wich they were made, were not correctly adjusted - but the later ones had framelines in their viewfinders for six different focal lengths. Those for the 50mm lens - the most used lens - indicated a field way too small so that the photographers who liked to use the full frame for their pictures had a problem.

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Old 06-14-2019   #103
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I don't know if you ever tried an M-Leica newer than the M4-2. That camera in itself was not entirely reliable - the machines on which they were made, were not correctly adjusted ...
Yes, I am well aware of the M4-2 issues. But those that preceded it were the best ever.
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Old 06-14-2019   #104
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Originally Posted by BillBlackwell View Post
Yes, I am well aware of the M4-2 issues. But those that preceded it were the best ever.

Then you know that these cameras had only three framelines (M3, M2) or four (M4, M5).


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Old 06-14-2019   #105
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Then you know that these cameras had only three framelines (M3, M2) or four (M4, M5).
Right, and the M4-2 only had four; but I didn't see this as pertinent to this thread other than the 'aside' about when the framelines changed.

Then you know the first Leica M camera with six framelines was the M4-P?
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Old 06-14-2019   #106
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Yes, but the framelines of the M5 were much more precise!


Leica M5, Summilux 35mm f/1.4 steel rim, 400-2TMY, printed on Adox MCC 110.

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Old 06-14-2019   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
I don't know if you ever tried an M-Leica newer than the M4-2. That camera in itself was not entirely reliable - the machines on wich they were made, were not correctly adjusted - but the later ones had framelines in their viewfinders for six different focal lengths. Those for the 50mm lens - the most used lens - indicated a field way too small so that the photographers who liked to use the full frame for their pictures had a problem.

Erik.
The M4-P and later Ms have tighter 35mm framelines, which is why they supposedly work perfectly with 40mm lenses.
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Old 06-14-2019   #108
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Originally Posted by Bingley View Post
The M4-P and later Ms have tighter 35mm framelines, which is why they supposedly work perfectly with 40mm lenses.

Yes, they made them tighter, so they could make a 28mm frame around them. Neither of them were very precise.


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Old 06-15-2019   #109
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Without M3 there would have been no M2.


Erik.
OK, but if the M3 had been good enough, the M2 would not have been needed. (Just kidding; we all know they serve different purposes!)
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Old 06-15-2019   #110
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The M4-P and later Ms have tighter 35mm framelines, which is why they supposedly work perfectly with 40mm lenses.
I can live with the tighter 35mm frameline on my M6, M7, and MP. It's the ridiculously tight 50mm frameline that bothers me! I keep an M5 around just to have a Leica that has both an accurate 50mm frameline and a meter!

I did a test: at a distance of around 10 feet, the M6 50mm frameline covers the same area as the 60mm Elmar on a Leica R body! Bad!

Some people have the 75mm frameline removed, to make it easier to use the 50mm frameline. I should have the 50mm frameline removed, so I don't confuse it with the 75mm.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #111
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Editor’s Note : Someone read this article and sent me a message that, in part, told me to kill myself. Pretty ridiculous, but I wanted to clarify that this tongue-in-cheek article is more of a silly conversation starter than a true examination into which Leica is best. And in any event, favoring any camera over another isn’t really grounds for death. Happy shooting, friends.
Wow are there some loony tunes people out there.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #112
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Wow are there some loony tunes people out there.
Daffy Ducks and crazy.....


....clucks!
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