Type 240 or 262?
Old 05-26-2018   #1
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Type 240 or 262?

I'm having one of my occasional fits of nostalgia. I came across a web site advertising a used Type 240 and a used Type 262, in ostensibly equal condition, for the same price. My initial response would be to go for the 240.


Maybe I'm missing something. From what I read the 240 has maybe a little better sensor? The 240 is weather sealed? Shutter differences? I've been away from Leica so long I'm in the dark


Possibly, I'll hate the Leica images compared to my Nikon D810. I don't know.
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Old 05-26-2018   #2
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typ262 has a newer supposedly quieter shutter, lighter top plate, no live view, and no video. also has a marginally newer sensor, but insignificant difference from what i've read.

If you're touring by bike, the 262 has benefits for both weight and watersealing (no evf port on the back and no mic holes on top).

If you want live view (or video) however, then the 240.

I use the 240 (and live view more often than expected), so let me know if you have more specific questions. Haven't used the 262, but was seriously considering it versus the 240.
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Old 05-26-2018   #3
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Hello Dick,


I bought M (typ 262) as first for it's simplicity after using M9 for years.


That was a very nice idea from Leica offering "simplified M (typ 240)".


Now I have the two types and use them as two different cameras:


- M240 has more functions and features: LV, video, multi-zone metering, and much more
- M262 has less functions but is lighter (circa -90g) with less menu and "said" quieter shutter (this is not to say the M240 has loud noise !): for me more M philosophy



But each can take pleasant pictures and with same lens I have never seen any difference in results.
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Old 05-26-2018   #4
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At the same price, the M typ 240 is a better deal as it includes more features. But whether it's better for you depends on whether you want or will use those features.

G
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Old 05-26-2018   #5
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Thanks for your input, everybody. It helps. No decision yet.
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Old 05-26-2018   #6
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Should note that there are two different typ 262 cameras, could be a source of confusion. M typ 262 and M-D typ 262, the latter further simplified by omitting the LCD screen on back. That latter is the one Godfrey and I are enjoying...

I also have a typ 240 but never use video or live view. Seems to be the only M with video feature, important for some.
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Old 05-26-2018   #7
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If you are contemplating the use of R lenses or other lenses with adapter, the live view feature makes more precise focus possible. Neither camera is designed for shooting long lenses, but I find the M240 live view feature useful with long telephoto primes or zooms.
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Old 05-26-2018   #8
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I have an M 262 and I prefer the lack of stuff like video that M 240 has. I never see having more stuff (bells and whistles) as being a better deal.
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Old 05-26-2018   #9
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My history of M user can't be an example to follow .


To make long history short : after buying/using almost all film M and digital M
... my last prefered present Ms are M-A and M-D to be used with small/light lenses like Summarit-M "discovered" after heavy/large lenses for decades.


I'm happier than when I had more choices of full-featured gear :

"less is more" (fun and proud when I obtain some nice pictures).
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Old 05-26-2018   #10
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I was out this morning shooting a sunrise, using 24mm and 18mm M-lenses on an M262 and a 35mm f1.4 Summilux FLE on an M-P240, with an extra 75mm f2.4 Summarit that I use interchangeably with the 35/1.4.

Couldn't be happier with both. The M262 is noticeably lighter due to the lighter weight top plate material, and the shutter sound of the M262 is more subtle, but they're both excellent in use and the black paint finish of the M-P240 "feels" much nicer to the touch when carrying in the hand over a long period of time.

Given a proficient system user, either one is very capable, or either could be a disaster in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're doing. They're both "sealed" to some extent. Without the EVF opening of the M240, the M262 could be better sealed overall. Sensor difference? Doubt there's much, if any. Exposed similarly, you could put a set of both together in one folder and never know which one took any of the pictures.

M262 and 18mm Super Elmar..





24mm Elmar-M..





and M-P240 with the Summilux FLE..



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Old 05-26-2018   #11
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I also have an M262. Dont shoot any video. Battery life is much better. Its shutter is much quieter also. I came from many film M cameras, the clean viewfinder drew me to the 262 for the same film like experiance. Its also a lighter camera with a simpiler menu that i like. You can’t go wrong with an M262 in my opinion.
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Old 05-27-2018   #12
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Thank you all for sharing your perspectives.
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Old 05-27-2018   #13
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The M262 is my preference between the two as well. I like that it's lighter and I never use the video function or an EVF/LV when I'm shooting with my M.
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Old 05-27-2018   #14
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Well, I know you're all in breathless suspense, wondering what I finally decided. Just to put it at rest so that you can enjoy the remainder of your long weekend, I opted for the (new as opposed to used) bundle offered by B&H. The 262+ 50/2.4 and some other stuff for an attractive price. They even worked with me to trade out an item for other things.


Counting the days till I'm once again a Leicaphile!
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Old 05-27-2018   #15
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Congratulations! Hope you capture some wonderful moments with it!
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Old 05-27-2018   #16
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That's a nice package, Dick; expect you'll become fond of it quickly!
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Old 05-27-2018   #17
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Dick, nice kit to begin with.
M262 + Summarit-M 50 is very handy and light = joy to use.
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Old 05-27-2018   #18
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Congrats you will love that combo.
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Old 05-28-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Tourist View Post
Well, I know you're all in breathless suspense, wondering what I finally decided. Just to put it at rest so that you can enjoy the remainder of your long weekend, I opted for the (new as opposed to used) bundle offered by B&H. The 262+ 50/2.4 and some other stuff for an attractive price. They even worked with me to trade out an item for other things.


Counting the days till I'm once again a Leicaphile!
CONGRATS and I have a good buddy that went for that same deal some months back. Now lets see a few images....
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Old 05-28-2018   #20
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Great! Now waiting to see a few pictures...
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Old 05-28-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
I have an M 262 and I prefer the lack of stuff like video that M 240 has. I never see having more stuff (bells and whistles) as being a better deal.
It's a better deal on the "features per dollar" scale. Whether that scale makes any sense for your particular use of the camera is an entirely different matter.

Far as I'm concerned, the M-D typ 262 is the finest digital M of all: It has all the features I need and none of the features I don't. It is my favorite Leica M camera of all, including all film versions of the M.

G
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Old 05-28-2018   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Tourist View Post
Well, I know you're all in breathless suspense, wondering what I finally decided. Just to put it at rest so that you can enjoy the remainder of your long weekend, I opted for the (new as opposed to used) bundle offered by B&H. The 262+ 50/2.4 and some other stuff for an attractive price. They even worked with me to trade out an item for other things.

Counting the days till I'm once again a Leicaphile!
Congrats!
Well, you'll soon be a Leica user again. Hopefully you'll also be a Leicaphile...

G
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Old 06-01-2018   #23
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It came! Busy putting things together and charging battery. The eyepiece didn't want to unscrew so screwed the diopter right into the eyepiece. Is this correct or am I supposed to remove the existing eyepiece first?
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Old 06-02-2018   #24
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Dick,
Do not try to remove the M262 eyepiece.
New Ms never have "removable eyepiece".
Only when bought second hand, previous owner may "forget" one diopter on the camera.

Just screw the diopter in.

Good/bad first impressions of your new kit ?

A word concerning possible trouble with SD card:
- new SD card formatted in exFAT in computer is the fastest wake-up/writing in my M262
- I use not very big capacity (16 or 32 GB)

- if the SD card was used on another device, it must be formatted in computer (in exFAT if possible),
as some can't be read when inserted as is in M262
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Old 06-02-2018   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a.noctilux View Post
Dick,
Do not try to remove the M262 eyepiece.
New Ms never have "removable eyepiece".
Only when bought second hand, previous owner may "forget" one diopter on the camera.

Just screw the diopter in.

Good/bad first impressions of your new kit ?

A word concerning possible trouble with SD card:
- new SD card formatted in exFAT in computer is the fastest wake-up/writing in my M262
- I use not very big capacity (16 or 32 GB)

- if the SD card was used on another device, it must be formatted in computer (in exFAT if possible),
as some can't be read when inserted as is in M262
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. That's what I needed to know.

A few backyard shots, both JPG and DNG, were unimpressive (compared to the D810) but I'm sure I've got a long ways to go to wring the best out of it. The construction quality and general feel were, of course, impeccable.

I put a 32gb Lexar in and formatted it in camera and it functioned fine.

One shot in dark shadow contained a red splotch, which looked like red paint on the fence but it didn't exist in reality. Maybe a lens aberration from backlighting.

Thanks again for you response.
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Old 06-02-2018   #26
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Just noticed — The red spot appears on several frames with the lens opened up all the way. But it does not appear in frames shot at f8. I'll have to do more experimenting.
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Old 06-02-2018   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bike Tourist View Post
...


One shot in dark shadow contained a red splotch, which looked like red paint on the fence but it didn't exist in reality. Maybe a lens aberration from backlighting.
First, congratulations on your purchase. Well done!

The red splotch artifact is a bit of a puzzle. Lens ghosting artifacts are usually not red. They tend to have the color of the lens coating. However ghosting artifacts are notoriously difficult to understand as their intensity depends on many variables.

I think your aperture test results are a hint the lens is causing the artifact.

First I'd look for a tiny spot of red fuzz on the lens rear element.

One test would be to take some frames with the body cap on. Take one at ISO 200 and one at ISO 6400. Then increase the image brightness on your computer to absurdly high levels. That could indicate if the red splotch is a sensor issue or if what you saw was a backlighting artifact. Ignore anything else unusual you might see (banding, etc) because these low-level artifacts are never digitized in normal usage since they are well below the light's shot noise levels.
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Old 06-02-2018   #28
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Yep, I think it was/is a lens issue. The splotch, was actually magenta with feathered edges. It occurred in four consecutive shots under different conditions. I don't think aperture setting made any difference either. I tried to repeat the effect this morning with thirty shots and they were all fine. One other strange thing . . . Adobe bridge reads the aperture as f2.8 or f3.4 with the lens wide open and with lens set at f11 it reads sometimes f11 and sometimes f13. And with lens set at f8 it sometimes reads f8 and sometimes f9.5.
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Old 06-02-2018   #29
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Aperture "reading from Leica M262/240" is for information only and just "estimation by the camera" by comparing the readings from two sensors (I think the front small round near logo and one inside the M chamber), there is some threads about this "flaw", here or LUF.


In the M10, this "no-information" is no more available

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic...tsbug-reports/
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Old 06-02-2018   #30
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. . . Getting to know you, getting to know all about you . . . .

Very interesting. The red/magenta thing has gone away and not reappeared in 100 frames. Nice to know about the f-stop "estimation" so I won't worry about it. In fact, everything's just great. Thanks!
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Old 06-03-2018   #31
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Happy to hear the problem was transient.
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Old 09-08-2018   #32
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by irbridge View Post
typ262 has a newer supposedly quieter shutter, lighter top plate, no live view, and no video. also has a marginally newer sensor, but insignificant difference from what i've read.

If you're touring by bike, the 262 has benefits for both weight and watersealing (no evf port on the back and no mic holes on top).

If you want live view (or video) however, then the 240.

I use the 240 (and live view more often than expected), so let me know if you have more specific questions. Haven't used the 262, but was seriously considering it versus the 240.
The electronic viewfinder is very useful when you use "non-standard" lenses like 15mm, 17mm, 25mm...
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Old 09-09-2018   #33
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The electronic viewfinder is very useful when you use "non-standard" lenses like 15mm, 17mm, 25mm...
Also very handy for fast or longer lenses and to easily check the RF accuracy. Also good for adapted lenses on the Leica.

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Old 09-09-2018   #34
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LiveView is one of the most important features of the M240. Losing it makes a camera less useful to me. Others may not want LV.
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