Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Classic Film RangeFinders & Other Classics > SLRs - the unRF

SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Leica R9 first impressions
Old 05-25-2018   #1
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Leica R9 first impressions

Just picked up one of these puppies. While it looks huge and ungainly, it's very different when you actually hold one. Weight is fine, handling is excellent. Crazy smooth film winder. The extremely simple and logical control layout is how cameras should be, with an oversized and overhanging shutter speed dial a la M5.
I can find only one flaw with the controls - the on/off switch should be separate from the exposure mode dial. It makes for slower start up times as you have to spin that dial from OFF to whatever mode you want to use. If this was separate, you'd have the mode dial set at your mode ready to go, and an on/off switch. Hmm.
The one shooting flaw is the AE lock is just like on the M7 - hold down the shutter button half way. This means that once the exposure is made, it drops the AE lock. It would be nice if it would hold it until it was cancelled. But like the M7, that's what manual mode is for!
Shutter lag is completely fine - nothing like that on an R7 where there seems to be a loooong delay. It made me hate that camera. The shutter sound is interesting, even at 1/8000 sec it sound like it is at 1.60. I guess this is due to the double mirrors and associated mechanism. It does not sound crisp and defined like with a Minolta XK or Nikon F2/F3 (my points of reference).

One weirdness, the depth of field preview button is a lever with a really long throw. And when you release it, the lens returns to shooting aperture kinda slowly. When you actually take a pic, the lens' aperture stops down and opens up just as quickly as one would expect. I did a google search and this seems to be normal, so I'm guessing the DOF action is intentionally damped to reduce wear.

Anyway, this should be interesting.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #2
Doug
Moderator
 
Doug's Avatar
 
Doug is offline
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Pacific NW, USA
Posts: 12,938
Looks like considerable original thinking went into the exterior design, so maybe interior as well? Interesting rig, digital back available too... Enjoy!
__________________
Doug’s Gallery
RFF on Facebook
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #3
ErikT
Registered User
 
ErikT is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
I also have a R9 (a very good condition black version) and I really like it in general, but—like you—I also hate the combined ON/OFF and mode dial. Difficult to understand how they came up with this design, it's so impractical.

Otherwise I really like it.

I only have one lens, a late 50mm Summicron f/2, but I love that lens. Would like to get a 28mm Elmarit f/2.8 version II, but they're quite expensive.

I recently acquired the Motor Winder. It makes the handling a little more balanced and it feels really nice. It also—contrary to the even larger Motor Drive—uses 2 normal CR123A 3V lithium batteries.

My Hunchback of Solms:
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #4
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 69
Posts: 1,420
My main problem with the combined mode/on/off switch is that I don’t ever remember to turn it off when I am finished. Just seeing this post has made me wonder if I turned it off the last time I used it.
I have large hands, which might account for the fact I have found criticisms of the shape to be unwarranted. Ergonomically it is one of the most thoughtfully designed cameras I have ever owned. For me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #5
Ronald M
Registered User
 
Ronald M is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,486
Preview levers on previous r models were frequently sticky and expensive to repair.

Maybe some real owners can advise.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #6
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 69
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
Preview levers on previous r models were frequently sticky and expensive to repair.

Maybe some real owners can advise.
Unaware of that. When you mention “previous R models” not sure which ones you might mean. R8 and R9 were totally different ground up designs from the R3 to R7 series, so there was really no carryover of anything, good or bad.

Edit: Well, the expensive to repair part.... that probably carried over.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #7
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikT View Post
I also have a R9 (a very good condition black version) and I really like it in general, but—like you—I also hate the combined ON/OFF and mode dial. Difficult to understand how they came up with this design, it's so impractical.

Otherwise I really like it.

I only have one lens, a late 50mm Summicron f/2, but I love that lens. Would like to get a 28mm Elmarit f/2.8 version II, but they're quite expensive.

I recently acquired the Motor Winder. It makes the handling a little more balanced and it feels really nice. It also—contrary to the even larger Motor Drive—uses 2 normal CR123A 3V lithium batteries.

My Hunchback of Solms:
I'd like to get a faster lens than just my zoom, for when the light sinks. I've been doing a lot of research of the much lauded E60 1.4 50 but it seems to be much lauded because it was the most recent, and by far the most expensive. So of course Leicatypes gravitate to that...
I found, I think of fredmiranda, one gent who did extensive side by side testing of a Cron, Lux 1.4 E55 and Lux 1.4 E60. The Cron was clearly the sharpest, while the E60 had slightly better bokeh than the E55 (and both better than the Cron), but I had to go back and forth and really peep until my eyes crossed to tell. Basically one would not be able to tell any difference in actual photos. I briefly had an E55 a few years back, with a Nikon mount, and was very happy with the images but sold it on as the Nikon mount prevented automatic aperture control. So I preferred using a Zeiss Macro Planar.
I like the idea of the Winder, but have not seen one yet for sale separate from the body.

But yeah, that on/off switch as part of the mode dial...
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #8
Larry Cloetta
Registered User
 
Larry Cloetta is offline
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jackson, WY
Age: 69
Posts: 1,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
I'd like to get a faster lens than just my zoom, for when the light sinks. I've been doing a lot of research of the much lauded E60 1.4 50 but it seems to be much lauded because it was the most recent, and by far the most expensive. So of course Leicatypes gravitate to that...
I found, I think of fredmiranda, one gent who did extensive side by side testing of a Cron, Lux 1.4 E55 and Lux 1.4 E60. The Cron was clearly the sharpest, while the E60 had slightly better bokeh than the E55 (and both better than the Cron), but I had to go back and forth and really peep until my eyes crossed to tell. Basically one would not be able to tell any difference in actual photos. I briefly had an E55 a few years back, with a Nikon mount, and was very happy with the images but sold it on as the Nikon mount prevented automatic aperture control. So I preferred using a Zeiss Macro Planar.
I like the idea of the Winder, but have not seen one yet for sale separate from the body.

But yeah, that on/off switch as part of the mode dial...
There is a ton of R lens information over at Fred Miranda in the Leica R lens thread, probably the best go to source for actual picture results, though it will take days to go through it all. The Cron might be sharper than the E60 Lux at f/2, but I am pretty sure the E60 Lux is noticeably better corrected once you stop down, unsurprisingly. Same thing for the later 90 ASPH vs. the earlier Cron. Not that I have either the E60 Lux or the 90 ASPH, preferring the less corrected rendering of the earlier Mandler lenses. Not to mention cheaper. Way cheaper.
The R lenses are much, much nicer to use on an R body than adapted to an F mount, at least I thought so and gave up on that sideshow pretty quickly. PITA.

FWIW, the Zeiss Macro Planar is a nicer lens than the popular 60 Makro-Elmarit-R, again only a personal opinion. One reason for having multiple systems.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #9
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 59
Posts: 7,475
A very long time ago I handled one in Central Camera (Chicago). I liked it until I looked through the viewfinder and wasn't able to focus well because of the split-something system. It reminded me of my Minolta X-70 and the reason I gave up on manual focus SLRs. But I must admit that, in terms of design, it's the coolest and most advanced camera body ever made...

Oh, well... must control myself. Thanks for your instructive post!
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #10
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
There is a ton of R lens information over at Fred Miranda in the Leica R lens thread, probably the best go to source for actual picture results, though it will take days to go through it all.....
The R lenses are much, much nicer to use on an R body than adapted to an F mount, at least I thought so and gave up on that sideshow pretty quickly. PITA.

FWIW, the Zeiss Macro Planar is a nicer lens than the popular 60 Makro-Elmarit-R, again only a personal opinion. One reason for having multiple systems.
Yeah, but on Fredmiranda all those comparisons are on digital. I think film is way more forgiving and what one may see on a 42mp SOny A7R111, most probably would be unnoticeable on Portra 400. I did use that one 50mm comparo just to see what actually was the difference theoretically. The tester shot the three lenses at several different apertures, but admittedly they were close ups that had lights in the background to demonstrate bokeh. But for my purposes, it gave me what I needed to know. Fredmiranda really is about the best 'real' resource out there.
And yeah, my experience using modded R lenses on a Nikon mirrors yours. The process is so clunky it just, well, blows. I feel the same way adapting mf lenses to mirrorless cameras. I have a M43 Olympus that I bought a M43-Leica M adapter for, but pretty much instantly realised I was kidding myself and the camera was so much better with the dedicated Olympus lenses. Same with my M240 and all the adapters I bought for it. Much better just using M mount lenses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaresLarrave View Post
A very long time ago I handled one in Central Camera (Chicago). I liked it until I looked through the viewfinder and wasn't able to focus well because of the split-something system. It reminded me of my Minolta X-70 and the reason I gave up on manual focus SLRs. But I must admit that, in terms of design, it's the coolest and most advanced camera body ever made...

Oh, well... must control myself. Thanks for your instructive post!
Leica offers (offered?) different focus screens, so if you don't like one, there are others to choose from.
I've almost finished shooting my first roll and this camera really is growing on me. I now dig the distinctive 'ker-chlunk' sound of the mirror! While I bought an R9, it's only because I got an insane deal on a like new one. The seller had posted a couple of blurry pics on ebay, with a 'make an offer' price. So I offered less than R8s are going for and he accepted! It came with the box and all that stuff. I was stunned to open the box and see a like new camera inside!
But.. in researching this, the R8 really is pretty much the same thing and I think a killer deal. People are now asking crazy money for the Nikon FM3a, and for the same money you can get an R8 which has a greater shutter speed range, multiple metering patterns, and is just nicer. Plus it uses R glass. The Nikon's advantage is not being battery reliant.
I've used the FM3a so know of what I speak And picked an FE2 over it (since sold) as I couldn't tell any difference in actual use.
Nikon F6 (which I am lucky enough to also have) is a lot more than an R8 and it is far less intuitive to use, plus loses it's memory settings if you pull the battery and store it for several weeks. But you can set it to store AE lock settings, while the R8/9 drops it after each exposure. The main thing going is the AF. If you don't need it, then the R8/9 is a very nice alternative.

Looking at the R9, I don't know why Leica didn't name the SL the R10. It's what the R9 would be if AF and a permanent digital sensor was added. Same thing as the M7 becoming the digital M8/9/10/10v2
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #11
Peter Wijninga
Registered User
 
Peter Wijninga's Avatar
 
Peter Wijninga is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,981
Quote:
Looking at the R9, I don't know why Leica didn't name the SL the R10.
Perhaps because the market dictates it is best not naming a new product after a failed and by now dead one.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #12
ellisson
Registered User
 
ellisson's Avatar
 
ellisson is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elkins Park, PA
Posts: 516
Congrats on your R9, Huss.
I enjoy this camera and the 35-70 f4 macro lens. Great possibilities with that combo.
__________________
Respice Finem

flickrgallery
Pbase gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #13
ellisson
Registered User
 
ellisson's Avatar
 
ellisson is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Elkins Park, PA
Posts: 516
As you mentioned, the R8/R9 winders are usually bundled with the cameras. I was looking for one last year and contacted a seller to see if he would sell the winder separately. He agreed and split his auction, re-listing the camera alone after selling me the winder. Not all sellers may agree to this, but its worth a try.
__________________
Respice Finem

flickrgallery
Pbase gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #14
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Wijninga View Post
Perhaps because the market dictates it is best not naming a new product after a failed and by now dead one.
well it's a good thing they didn't do something like release a digital camera called the CL.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #15
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is offline
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,120
First modern SLR which I'm finding as attractive as our family EOS 300
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #16
steveyork
Registered User
 
steveyork is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 682
When I played with one of these in store in the early-ish part of the last decade, the pleasant ergonomics surprised.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #17
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,555
As much as the R8/9 has always fascinated me with it's looks and obvious build quality there are so many other SLRs out there to choose from. These days an F6 would probably go for less and the range of inexpensive lenses available for the Nikon is enormous.

I guess if you really want the Leica that's what you'll choose though because it's certainly unique!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #18
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
As much as the R8/9 has always fascinated me with it's looks and obvious build quality there are so many other SLRs out there to choose from. These days an F6 would probably go for less and the range of inexpensive lenses available for the Nikon is enormous.

I guess if you really want the Leica that's what you'll choose though because it's certainly unique!
The F6 goes for a lot more than an R8 and about the same as an R9. Lens selection for the Nikon is of course way more extensive but if you want the same quality you are looking at the Zeiss ZF /Milvus series. Which cost the same as Leica R glass.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #19
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The F6 goes for a lot more than an R8 and about the same as an R9. Lens selection for the Nikon is of course way more extensive but if you want the same quality you are looking at the Zeiss ZF /Milvus series. Which cost the same as Leica R glass.

Out of interest Huss what does an R9 sell for ... ?
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #20
analoged
Registered User
 
analoged's Avatar
 
analoged is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HNL/TYO
Posts: 330
As you can see in my sig I have plenty of R cameras and glass, but the R9 is still on the list of wants... one day.
__________________
M6, 35mm Pre Asph Lux, 50 Elmar M

IIIasync, 5cm Summar, 5cm Sonnar, 3.5cm Elmar, 13.5cm Sonnar

Leicaflex SL, Leicaflex SL2, R6.2, 28mm Elamrit Ver II, 80mm Lux, 100mm Apo Macro Elmarit, 180 Elmarit, 400mm Telyt, 560mm Telyt

Epson R-D1
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #21
analoged
Registered User
 
analoged's Avatar
 
analoged is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: HNL/TYO
Posts: 330
Keith, most seem to be in the $800-1000 range, rarely cheaper than that, but sometimes!
__________________
M6, 35mm Pre Asph Lux, 50 Elmar M

IIIasync, 5cm Summar, 5cm Sonnar, 3.5cm Elmar, 13.5cm Sonnar

Leicaflex SL, Leicaflex SL2, R6.2, 28mm Elamrit Ver II, 80mm Lux, 100mm Apo Macro Elmarit, 180 Elmarit, 400mm Telyt, 560mm Telyt

Epson R-D1
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #22
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 59
Posts: 7,475
Back then, Huss, when I held the R9 in my hands, I already had a Nikon system and very little interest in branching out. But it's always good to know that Leica would have offered an alternate focusing screen for my failing eyesight.
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #23
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by analoged View Post
Keith, most seem to be in the $800-1000 range, rarely cheaper than that, but sometimes!

An F6 went in our classifieds recently for $600 ... quite a bargain!
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #24
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Out of interest Huss what does an R9 sell for ... ?
normally $750+

but even tho I have the R9, the R8 really is almost the same thing.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #25
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Ok, because I tell it how it is... see that image below? Taken thru the VF. See what's weird? If you hold the camera so u are looking down into the Vf (and thus cutting out the top of the image) you can see a reversed reflection of the image at the bottom. Just like on my Zenit TTL!
Now normally you would just look straight into the vf and not see this, but there's nothing normal about me... and I do not recall this effect with any of my non Ruski kameras. I will check my F6 etc when I get home. Problem is that now that I have seen it, I see it...

Untitled by desmolicious, on Flickr

2nd item.. the VF is only 93%. It doesn't really matter I guess but when all my F series Nikons are 100%, as well as my Minolta XK, I expected the same for what was a mega bux Leica SLR. Hmmm.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-26-2018   #26
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Alright - so I checked my other SLRs and they also do that, but some do it more than others.
Best is the Nikon F3 w/HP head. Worst is the D850. How on earth did I not notice this before?!
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #27
ErikT
Registered User
 
ErikT is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Looking at the R9, I don't know why Leica didn't name the SL the R10. It's what the R9 would be if AF and a permanent digital sensor was added. Same thing as the M7 becoming the digital M8/9/10/10v2
Yes! This! I have been thinking the same. R10 would have been such a better name. I'm guessing the reason is the new mount, but I still would have preferred R10 instead of SL.


/ET
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #28
ErikT
Registered User
 
ErikT is offline
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 9
I must admit the main reason why I got the R9 to begin with, was because I love the industrial design of it. I know it's an either love-it-or-hate-it design, but to me, it's one of the best looking SLRs ever made.



/ET
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #29
santino
eXpect me
 
santino's Avatar
 
santino is offline
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Autriche
Posts: 1,036
The design is great.. so different and still functional
__________________
Vivent les télémétriques ! -
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #30
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
 
SolaresLarrave's Avatar
 
SolaresLarrave is offline
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: DeKalb, IL, USA
Age: 59
Posts: 7,475
In terms of design, the Hasselblad HV (a short lived dSLR) and the Leica R9 look like cousins.
Hasselblad HV by ringo-en, on Flickr
__________________
-Francisco
Check out
My Leica M4-2 Blog and/or
My Nikon D700 Neophyte's Guide
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #31
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
I think the Sony A77/A99 series, which the Hasselblad is a rebadge of, looks more like it.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...lr.html?sts=pi
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #32
ThreeToedSlothLuke
Registered User
 
ThreeToedSlothLuke is offline
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Eastford CT
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
...you can see a reversed reflection of the image at the bottom. Just like on my Zenit TTL!...
I just checked my R8 & I get the same thing. I'm quite sure it's the mirror that we see.
There's just a hint, possibly the bottom of the mirror, on my F100 but nothing at all on my F2 or even my Praktica LTL.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #33
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Just finished a second roll of film thru it, will get it developed tomorrow (and get my first one back). This time I took a SF24D flash along w/ me to see how it handles fill in work automatically at the beach. Interestingly it is meant to be in avg metering (not matrix) for this.
More notes - the VF is not very good if you wear glasses/sunglasses. It just does not have the eye relief like a Nikon with an HP finder. Amazing really that Nikon made that back in the 1980s, and no 'current' camera offers that.
Film winder really is the smoothest ever.
Really dumb that when you power off, the frame counter LCD also powers off so you have to turn the camera on to see how many shots are left.
Fantastic that you can pick meter modes while looking thru the VF - excellent design.
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #34
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
More notes - the VF is not very good if you wear glasses/sunglasses. It just does not have the eye relief like a Nikon with an HP finder. Amazing really that Nikon made that back in the 1980s, and no 'current' camera offers that.
Viewfinders are built with a set of competing interests inherent in the design. Magnification, coverage and eyepoint all have effects on each other within a single set of design parameters.

The Nikon F3 HP finder has 100% coverage and a 25mm eyepoint, but a 0.75 magnification. The Nikon F5 DP30 has 100% coverage, 20.5mm eyepoint and 0.75 magnification. The Nikon F6 viewfinder has 100% coverage and 0.75 magnification and an 18mm eyepoint. The decrease in eyepoint largely coincides with a decrease in the physical size of the finder.

The R9 viewfinder has 0.75 magnification, 96% vertical and 97% horizontal coverage and a ~22mm eyepoint. It's not perfect but it's very good. I think it's as good as the F3 finder for manual focus, and only slightly behind the very best manual focus viewfinders. If you wear glasses while you take photos, very little beats an F3HP finder.

Mary
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #35
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Viewfinders are built with a set of competing interests inherent in the design. Magnification, coverage and eyepoint all have effects on each other within a single set of design parameters.

The Nikon F3 HP finder has 100% coverage and a 25mm eyepoint, but a 0.75 magnification. The Nikon F5 DP30 has 100% coverage, 20.5mm eyepoint and 0.75 magnification. The Nikon F6 viewfinder has 100% coverage and 0.75 magnification and an 18mm eyepoint. The decrease in eyepoint largely coincides with a decrease in the physical size of the finder.

The R9 viewfinder has 0.75 magnification, 96% vertical and 97% horizontal coverage and a ~22mm eyepoint. It's not perfect but it's very good. I think it's as good as the F3 finder for manual focus, and only slightly behind the very best manual focus viewfinders. If you wear glasses while you take photos, very little beats an F3HP finder.

Mary
Out of curiosity do you have a stat for the OM1 Marty because I've yet to look through anything as good?
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #36
mcfingon
Western Australia
 
mcfingon is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,081
Here's a VF comparison web page Keith: It's all downhill from the OM1 according to it.
https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/6...wfinder-sizes/
John Mc
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #37
mcfingon
Western Australia
 
mcfingon is offline
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 1,081
And another one which includes eyepoint measures, but only an estimation for the OM1:
https://cameragx.com/2010/03/09/view...lief-part-two/
John Mc
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #38
Keith
On leave from Gallifrey
 
Keith's Avatar
 
Keith is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 18,555
Thanks John ... it was interesting that they rated the F3 as having the best finder. I've never looked through one from memory.
__________________
---------------------------
flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-27-2018   #39
Freakscene
Deregistered user
 
Freakscene's Avatar
 
Freakscene is offline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In exile
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
Out of curiosity do you have a stat for the OM1 Marty because I've yet to look through anything as good?
A couple of things to watch out for - linear and area measures of coverage are not the same (those sources both mix them up). Magnification at 'infinity', often interpreted as 50x the focal length (i.e. a 50mm lens at 2.5m 'infinity') is not the same as magnification at a properly long distance away (i.e. using the moon as 'infinity'). Also multiplying magnification by coverage to get an 'apparent viewfinder size' doesn't provide a reliable measure because of the effect of eyepoint. If you have to get your eye right up to the viewfinder to see it things tend to look bigger anyway.

The OM1 viewfinder is amazing, but it was designed for high magnification and coverage at the expense of eyepoint (it is higher than the 15mm cited in one of those references, but not much) and keeping the physical size of the prism housing reasonable. These choices do help make the OM1 viewfinder great, but don't overlook the area and amount of semi-silvering for the metering - some of the light goes through the mirror to allow the camera to meter the ambient light - and this loss is always lower in manual focus SLRs than in autofocus cameras because light is only passed through the mirror to the meter, not also to the autofocus sensors, so the finder is really bright. This perception is often slightly decreased by the real ground glass focus screen an OM1 has, which has a coarser grid for more focus snap but which transmits a lower proportion of incident light than modern autofocus SLR screens which are made of a bundle of optical fibres with microlenses on each end. This is why Olympus developed the 2-series focus screens. Apparent brightness and focus snap are not purely related to transmission. This is why AF screens look so bright but can be hard to focus.

So, in short, 'best' is relative and influenced by a lot of things.

Keith, I can bring an F3 next time I'm in Queensland. I have the DE3 and DE2 finders. I might also bring a Contax Aria (95% coverage, 0.82 magnification, 22.5mm eyepoint) or an RX (95% coverage, 0.8 magnification, 22.5mm eyepoint).

Marty

Last edited by Freakscene : 05-27-2018 at 23:36. Reason: fixin mah book lurning
  Reply With Quote

Old 05-29-2018   #40
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 7,255
Just got my films back, and am really happy with the results. The Leica 35-70 F4 is a knock out lens. Incredible. I used to think my Minolta 35-70 3.5 that I use on my XK was great, this puppy is on a different level. As it should be given the price difference.

Selection below, Fuji C200, all scanned with a Nikon D850. With one I used an SF-24D flash in the auto fill in mode, to see how it works. Mounted on camera, directly pointing at the subject.









  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:22.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.