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Old 10-21-2017   #41
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What makes Adobe rich does not necessarily translate into a good deal for its users.
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Old 10-21-2017   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
...

All of my 'finished' renderings are output as TIFFs anyway, with all changes and edits baked in. The other stuff ... is just raw material.
...
Exactly. Problem solved.
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Old 10-22-2017   #43
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I don't see myself subscribing. I'm not a professional (used to be, not now), I'm a photography enthusiast. I'm happy with LR but I don't need a lot of the features pros find useful. What's the benefits for me to subscribe?

Personally, I'll probably stick with the standalone version of LR6 until Apple no longer supports it or until my cameras are no longer supported by LR. Maybe I'll just start shooting JPEGs only and forget Raw processing althogether. Maybe I'll move to different software. I dunno but I can't see my photography being held hostage by a software company.
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Old 10-22-2017   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
. ................. All of my 'finished' renderings are output as TIFFs anyway, with all changes and edits baked in ...................
If that works for you, do it that way. But for me, there is never any such thing as "finished". I always save Photoshop files with all layers unflattened, unsized, and unsharpened so I can go back and tweak as my style changes or the image needs to be presented in a slightly different way to better fit with other images in a series. It is not unusual for me to retrieve a 15 year old PS file and make a change in one of the curves, thankfully still saved as an accessible separate layer. Similar situation in LR. That is a flexibility I would never give up.

Now this does mean I must always have a working copy of PS and LR available. But I have those in purchased non-subscription versions so assume I always will.
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Old 10-22-2017   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
Personally, I'll probably stick with the standalone version of LR6 until Apple no longer supports it or until my cameras are no longer supported by LR. Maybe I'll just start shooting JPEGs only and forget Raw processing althogether. Maybe I'll move to different software. I dunno but I can't see my photography being held hostage by a software company.

That`s how I feel.
I don`t use Lightroom but most of the people in my local photographic society seem to be heavily invested.

Digital manipulation is a large part of their workflow.

I just keep with my old version of Elements even though it doesn`t support my Sony Raw.
So I`ve already abandoned Raw processing for that camera.

I don`t catalogue and only use Elements for the odd tonal adjustment ,so after reading this thread ,I`ve abandoned any plans to move to Lightroom.
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Old 10-22-2017   #46
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I updated, but i have to say, I still use and prefer LR4. For some reason it's snappier than all the newer versions. I've tried 5 and CC, and now Classic (I dislike this naming). They all seem sluggish compared to 4. My go to will still be 4 for most things, unless I occasionally need a toolset found in the newer programs.
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Old 10-22-2017   #47
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I have been/am using LR5. Is there a need to update to 6 or eventually to 7? Why?
If I really needed LR7 I have no problems with a subscription at the rate mentioned here.
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Old 10-22-2017   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I have been/am using LR5. Is there a need to update to 6 or eventually to 7? Why?
If I really needed LR7 I have no problems with a subscription at the rate mentioned here.
If you get a new camera, you may need newer RAW file support. If not, no problem.
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Old 10-22-2017   #49
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OK, so if somehow a Leica M10 makes it my day one day, then I better switch to the last version LR.
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Old 10-22-2017   #50
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Quote:
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OK, so if somehow a Leica M10 makes it my day one day, then I better switch to the last version LS.
Leica saves in DNG format, so upgrading to an M10 will not required new software.
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Old 10-22-2017   #51
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When would then such a LR update be useful?
I save in DNG with the M8 and the M9. LR5 does a nice jpg conversion.
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Old 10-22-2017   #52
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Quote:
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Affinity Photo is pretty strong for a PS replacement and at $50 it is a steal. Makers of Affinity are working on a cataloging program but it isn't ready yet.

Capture One has many fans too.

Photo Mechanic is supposed to be a very strong catalog system that is built to integrate with other editing programs.

Shawn
I use Capture One (version 9.X), PhotoMechanic and Affinity within my daily workflow.

I'm using scans and older (M8, etc) DNG files, and I've had no problems whatsoever with these softwares.

Of course, I'm not heavily invested in lots of digital manipulation.

That being said, I've also a standalone version of LR (6.X) and find that I use it only for slideshows and marking up stuff for Blurb, etc. I could easily dispose of LR without much inconvenience.

Your results/requirements, however, may vary.

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Old 10-22-2017   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
If you get a new camera, you may need newer RAW file support. If not, no problem.
Yes Raid that`s the only problem.
I use 6 but it doesn`t support my Sony .
I need to upgrade the PC first though before I think of anything else .... but like I said early ....I`ve stayed with what I`ve got and ditched the Raw.
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Old 10-22-2017   #54
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Ditching the raw DNG reminds me of why we saved the thousands of negatives from film!
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Old 10-22-2017   #55
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Quote:
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OK, so if somehow a Leica M10 makes it my day one day, then I better switch to the last version LR.
if you upgrade to the M10, you may as well upgrade to C1. I do not have the M10, but MM (246) and M9...notable sharper output, and also at least on par with LR in all other aspects.
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Old 10-22-2017   #56
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I have been updating from LR3 all the way to LR6. However, the last two have been bought downloading it. My computer failed and I lost them, I could not download because they were no longer available. Luckly, I doing my LR4 disk and I loaded to my computer. I have been using is for the last year, and did not notice the difference, I refuse to pay for subscription.
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Old 10-22-2017   #57
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Quote:
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I use a debit card almost exclusively.
Very unwise. Debit cards have much less security than credit cards.

"If you typically use a debit card for online purchases, you may want to reconsider. If your card information is hacked and purchases are made without your permission, you’ll quickly find out that debit and credit cards are treated quite differently.

The key difference: With a credit card, the card issuer must fight to get its money back. With a debit card, you must fight to get your money back."

With debit cards your potential liability for fraudulent debit card transactions is virtually unlimited. Your entire bank balance could be drained and you would be potentially liable for it.

With credit cards your maximum liability for fraudulent credit card transactions is $50.

It is extremely unwise to rely on debit cards in the same way as a credit card.
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Old 10-22-2017   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepeguitarra View Post
I have been updating from LR3 all the way to LR6. However, the last two have been bought downloading it. My computer failed and I lost them, I could not download because they were no longer available. Luckly, I doing my LR4 disk and I loaded to my computer. I have been using is for the last year, and did not notice the difference, I refuse to pay for subscription.
If you paid for LR4/LR5/LR6, you should be able to download copies directly from Adobe. No reason to settle for LR3.
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Old 10-22-2017   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
I have been/am using LR5. Is there a need to update to 6 or eventually to 7? Why?
If I really needed LR7 I have no problems with a subscription at the rate mentioned here.
I just checked, and found I have been on LR 5 for over 2 years. I upgraded to LR 6 just to gain another 2+ years, both past and future at a considerable savings compared to the subscription fees. I should also now have decent coverage on LR for Apple OS upgrades. Now that I kicked the can down the road, I have loads of time to figure out my next move. LR and Elements, directly on my PC and backed up on my own hard-drives, has always been enough for me. An alternative will come along if Adobe kills my workflow.

There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer,
Rob
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Old 10-22-2017   #60
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Quote:
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C1 has a subscription option. No guarantee a perpetual license version will always be available.
Twice the price of LR+PS CC, too. No thanks!

I'm basically just using LR as a DAM now. I prefer DxO Pro Optics as a RAW converter, although I'm a little frustrated with its highlight and shadow recovery features (doesn't seem to use the full dynamic range available in the RAW image). Lens correction and Prime Noise Reduction are superb (even though Prime Noise Reduction is painfully slow).

There may be better, but I'm happy enough.

Now, how to migrate all those LR DAM features (tags, etc.) into some other DAM?
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Old 10-22-2017   #61
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Originally Posted by robbeiflex View Post
I just checked, and found I have been on LR 5 for over 2 years. I upgraded to LR 6 just to gain another 2+ years, both past and future at a considerable savings compared to the subscription fees. I should also now have decent coverage on LR for Apple OS upgrades. Now that I kicked the can down the road, I have loads of time to figure out my next move. LR and Elements, directly on my PC and backed up on my own hard-drives, has always been enough for me. An alternative will come along if Adobe kills my workflow.

There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer,
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How can I upgrade to LR6, Rob?
Thanks.
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Disconnect photo processing from web
Old 10-22-2017   #62
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Disconnect photo processing from web

I almost did this when Apple stopped supporting Aperture. I didn't then, and learned to use Lightroom. But now I think this may be the time.

My thought is to disconnect my photo processing/printing hardware & software from the internet. I have a Mac Mini connected to a separate monitor and an Epson printer. If I disconnect them from the internet, then my post-processing gets frozen in time to NOW. The only big downside of this is if my current version of Lightroom doesn't support a camera I might buy in the future. I'd then have to live with jpeg processing only. But OOC jpegs are getting better and better, so maybe this isn't so bad.

Anybody see any problems with this solution?
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Old 10-22-2017   #63
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Just saw an article over on PP that say Lightroom Classic is not dead and Adobe will continue it's support. Here's the link,

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/21/ado...troom-classic/

Thanks,
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Old 10-22-2017   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Leica saves in DNG format, so upgrading to an M10 will not required new software.
Older versions of LR will support processing the DNGs from an M10, but they're missing the M10 specific processing calibration curves included with the appropriate LR6 update.
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Old 10-22-2017   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Very unwise. Debit cards have much less security than credit cards.

"If you typically use a debit card for online purchases, you may want to reconsider. If your card information is hacked and purchases are made without your permission, you’ll quickly find out that debit and credit cards are treated quite differently.

The key difference: With a credit card, the card issuer must fight to get its money back. With a debit card, you must fight to get your money back."

With debit cards your potential liability for fraudulent debit card transactions is virtually unlimited. Your entire bank balance could be drained and you would be potentially liable for it.

With credit cards your maximum liability for fraudulent credit card transactions is $50.

It is extremely unwise to rely on debit cards in the same way as a credit card.
My debit card account and my primary savings/checking accounts are not only not the same, they're at different banking institutions entirely.

I only put money into the debit card account when I use it to make specific purchases. The account has no overdraft capabilities and if there aren't funds to cover the purchase, the charge is denied. So they can hack away and they'll get nothing for their effort, and the bank will close the card and issue me a new one instantly.

Beyond that, my debit card was hacked once and someone made a couple of purchases on it. CHASE refunded my money immediately, closed the card, issued me a new one, pursued and prosecuted the thief, and he was put in jail. Still there too ... Mine was not the only card he hacked. Done.

The moral of the story is: Before you use any credit or debit card, read *all* the associated literature and protections the bank offers on that card. Many banks treat debit cards with the same protections as credit cards, although they're not required to by law as they are with credit cards. And then protect yourself by using the debit card sensibly, insulated from your main savings and checking monies.

G
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Old 10-22-2017   #66
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Quote:
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Just saw an article over on PP that say Lightroom Classic is not dead and Adobe will continue it's support. Here's the link,

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/21/ado...troom-classic/

Thanks,
Jon
Good news. Thanks for the link. Of course, with just about everything tech these days, Adobe could find some profit motive to end the support at any moment, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.
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Old 10-22-2017   #67
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Quote:
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Just saw an article over on PP that say Lightroom Classic is not dead and Adobe will continue it's support. Here's the link,

https://petapixel.com/2017/10/21/ado...troom-classic/

Thanks,
Jon
But it's still going to be by subscription only.
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Old 10-22-2017   #68
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I'm just a simple sod nowadays and I don't understand all the mumbo jumbo on 'CC' vs 'Classic CC' and separate terms and connectedness on software.

Currently I'm on LR 5.5 and I'll stay there. I'm not getting any new cameras in the future anyway. I'll keep buying second hand Sony A7s in the future, or maybe a Ricoh GXR to go with them. It's what I know and they get my jobs done.


There. Problem solved.


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Old 10-22-2017   #69
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I like your way of thinking, Johan. I can't afford a new Leica anyways, so maybe I will also turn to used Sony A7 cameras one day.
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Old 10-22-2017   #70
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Quote:
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Good news. Thanks for the link. Of course, with just about everything tech these days, Adobe could find some profit motive to end the support at any moment, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Oh, sure Adobe will support "Classic" for a bit, but they're already giving it the "memory hole" treatment:

"You can see this already on Adobe's site. Go ahead, try to find details on Lightroom Classic CC. The "Lightroom" product position takes you to Lightroom CC ;~).... The Adobe press releases all mostly identify Lightroom CC as the big takeaway." (Thom again)

This is almost exactly what they did to (perpetual) LR6. It slowly disappears from the website, then they kill it. It's obvious what's going to happen. We'll get a few more years, maybe 3-4, tops. Not an insignificant amount of time, sure - but they being more than clear enough about their future plans.
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Old 10-22-2017   #71
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How can I upgrade to LR6, Rob?
Thanks.
Raid, the following link takes you to a page to purchase LR6. Simply change the drop-down (Type) from "Full license" to "License upgrade".

https://commerce.adobe.com/anyware/c...landscape=prod
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Old 10-22-2017   #72
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We have seen leading software come and go. Lotus 1-2-3. Word Perfect (but this might still be around). How about Word Star. Aperture. VisiCalc.

My strategic goal: be able to survive if any of my software disappears. That means access to all photos and edits.

For Lightroom:
- Save edits in sidecar files (as well as in the catalog)
- Output a fully rendered jpg for every keeper. And, a 16bit Tiff for really key images.

I'll lose the catalog and a lot of metadata, but I can survive.
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Old 10-22-2017   #73
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I'm just a simple sod nowadays and I don't understand all the mumbo jumbo on 'CC' vs 'Classic CC' and separate teams and connectedness on software.

Currently I'm on LR 5.5 and I'll stay there. I'm not getting any new cameras in the future anyway. I'll keep buying second hand Sony A7s in the future, or maybe a Ricoh GXR to go with them. It's what I know and they get my jobs done.


There. Problem solved.


True, and not far from my plan, really. However at some point legacy software forces you into leagacy OS and in turn into legacy hardware. The system is rigged
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Old 10-23-2017   #74
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I have been/am using LR5. Is there a need to update to 6 or eventually to 7? Why?
If I really needed LR7 I have no problems with a subscription at the rate mentioned here.
"Need" is difficult to define and different for each of us.

I needed LR 6's features. However, at the time I was working on projects that had to be delivered the next morning. So the new Filter Brush and speed bumps were valuable for me. The HDR Merge saved a lot of time compared to using third-party plug-ins.

Lightroom Classic CC is much faster than all previous versions. The Process Version (rendering engine) was updated for the first time since 2012. However, the only change seems to be the new Range Mask and Auto Mask features.

The LR Mobile iOS app saves raw files that can automatically show up in the LR Library. This is attractive to some and useless to others. I prefer iPhone 7 raw files to in-phone JPEGs.
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Old 10-23-2017   #75
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For those looking, ACDSee Pro is a good low cost alternative. Their upgrade cycle is reasonable and it has remained stand alone.

https://www.acdsee.com/en/products/p...o-professional
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Old 10-23-2017   #76
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How can I upgrade to LR6, Rob?
Thanks.
It wasn't easy to find, it seems like every page redirected me to the new cloud version! If you go to the Adobe homepage, go to the bottom and click "View all products", then search for Lightroom 6.

Once I had a serial number, I still had issues to download it. So with some further research I found that you can download it here:
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb...ownloads.html#

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 10-23-2017   #77
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For those looking, ACDSee Pro is a good low cost alternative. Their upgrade cycle is reasonable and it has remained stand alone.

https://www.acdsee.com/en/products/p...o-professional
Hi Mack,

How is their Mac OS support? Can you import Lightroom catalogs and data into it, and is the import any good?

Thanks,
Rob
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Old 10-23-2017   #78
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I like Photo Mechanic for ingest, metadata, rating, viewing folders, and sending raw files to my favorite raw developers. Iridient for Fuji-X, Raw Power for Nikon, and Affinity for film scans. PM lets me easily fix the capture dates on the scans. Finished photos (just favorites) go to the Apple Photos App for a cross-platform cloud/sharing solution. That's my personal stuff. My employer is fine paying their negotiated rates for LR/PS (we get the entire CC Suite)... but they may balk again if we are pushed into the cloud. I have about 1.6TB of images on my machine.

Considering ON1 to streamline my workflow back to LR days. Darktable was close, but crashy and not great raw conversions.

This all started for me because I was using Aperture at home! Don't let it happen to you, LR "Classic" users.
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Old 10-23-2017   #79
RichyD
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Location: London
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I don't like Adobe as a company but use Lightroom (v4) with all its quirks for management and a tiny bit of editing and the print/export module, and Photoshop (CS3 because I didn't like the operating changes in later versions) for curves colour correcting and cleaning.

I just came across this reference to the Luminar image editing software and they are adding a DAM module to it.

https://www.thephoblographer.com/201...t/#more-112227

Had not heard of them before and will download their editing program to try. They say it will open lightroom libraries. On a brief read through it looks promising, uses layers (yay!). Might be able to dump Adobe altogether.
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Old 10-23-2017   #80
plummerl
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Age: 67
Posts: 1,018
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbeiflex View Post
It wasn't easy to find, it seems like every page redirected me to the new cloud version! If you go to the Adobe homepage, go to the bottom and click "View all products", then search for Lightroom 6.

Once I had a serial number, I still had issues to download it. So with some further research I found that you can download it here:
https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb...ownloads.html#

Cheers,
Rob
Hi Rob, I thought that Raid was asking about upgrading 5 to 6, not downloading 6. The link I gave above is the one for purchasing an upgrade.
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