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Konica SLRs and third-party lenses
Old 10-24-2016   #1
seany65
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Konica SLRs and third-party lenses

I've been considering getting a Konica T4 for landscapes, as it has a multi-exposure capability, (for blurring water etc. without using ND filters on top of any other filters I may be using at the time), and it has a brighter finder than either T3 or T3n,, and it'd be cheaper tha getting an FM2n.

I have recently read that Konica slr's can have trouble with 3rd party lenses, to the effect that the shutter can open when winding the film or when the wind lever is returning to position, at least something along those lines.

Is this true?

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Old 10-24-2016   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
I've been considering getting a Konica T4 for landscapes, as it has a multi-exposure capability, (for blurring water etc. without using ND filters on top of any other filters I may be using at the time), and it has a brighter finder than either T3 or T3n,, and it'd be cheaper tha getting an FM2n.

I have recently read that Konica slr's can have trouble with 3rd party lenses, to the effect that the shutter can open when winding the film or when the wind lever is returning to position, at least something along those lines.

Is this true?

Any help would be much appreciated.
Konica SLR lenses are excellent. 3rd party lenses in that mount are few and far between. I can't think of any reason not to shoot 100% Hexanons.

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Old 10-24-2016   #3
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I have a Konica Autoreflex TC, which came with Tokina and Vivitar zoom lenses, in Konica AR mount. Both of these lenses work fine with the camera
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Old 10-24-2016   #4
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I inherited my dad's Autoreflex T-3n almost 20 years ago. It's always functioned perfectly with all lenses. My dad originally bought two new Hexanon lenses, the 50mm f1.4 and the 35mm f2.0, and they are brilliantly clear. I later bought a Vivitar close-focusing 70-210mm zoom (which is only OK) and a Vivitar Series 1 macro-focusing 70-210mm zoom (which is the best zoom I've ever used on any camera).

Since Konica bodies are quite affordable, and these old AR-mount lenses are affordable, especially when compared to Leica lenses or Canon EF lenses, just buy some and experiment. The risk is small, and you can always resell the camera and lenses if you don't like them.

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Old 10-24-2016   #5
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As far as i know the problem of the shutter firing when winding the film, is something irrespective of the lens you put on you Konica - it is a problem with the camera.
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Old 10-24-2016   #6
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I agree with the head bartender: The Hexanon lenses are excellent. That being said 3rd party lenses will of course work if they have the AR bayonet but they are rarely worth it. Finding adapters for other mounts is tough and might cause trouble. There are, however, some good Tamron lenses with the adaptall 2 mount that work fine on the Konicas especially the 90mm is a real gem.
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Old 10-25-2016   #7
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Thanks for the replies and the info everyone.

Hmm, so it's not a lens mount problem, it can be a problem with the cameras?

That's a reason to re-think the plan.

I have got the impression from what I've read elsewhere that Hexanon lenses were good, but I was considering a zoom, to minimise changing lenses as that gives bugs or seeds a chance to get inside, and I had been planning on getting a tamron zoom. It appears from 'adaptall.2' that the 28-135 isn't so good beyond 80mm, (in which case why get that and not the 28-80?), or a 35-135 and a 24mm.

I had read some years ago that Tamron's 90mm was very good, and that their second version was better.

I've just looked at a list of Hexanon lenses and really, the only lenses I would want are the big and heavy 35-100, and the 24mm f2.8, I've already got tamron 35-70 and 70-150 lenses, but I want to use them for non-landscapes with my f301.
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Old 10-26-2016   #8
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I have done some research on the subject, because I have some third party lenses, that cause Some of my Konica cameras to manifest said problems. Apparently, aperture mechanism in Konica cameras, when not properly lubricated, does not function as it is intended and shutter would get released at the end of winding cycle, causing film advance to keep moving. This only happens with third party lenses, in my case. Hexanons do not cause such malfunction on same camera bodies. I had it happen with Sigma Y-mount, Tamron Adaptall-2 and T-mounts. It looks like springs used in aperture mechanism in these lenses are too strong, and Hexanon springs are weaker. Stronger springs prevent aperture mechanism in camera to reach its destination, subsequently releasing the shutter.
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Old 10-26-2016   #9
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Thanks for the extra info Crazy Fedya.

Hmmm. It seems maybe I'd have to buy several T4 bodies in the hope that I'd get a properly lubricated one, or pay (I presume quite a bit) to have one lubricated to pre-empt the problem. Either way increasing the cost so that it edges towards the cost of an FM2n.
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Old 10-26-2016   #10
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Lubrication may not be the oly issue you face - the TC I have, has an intermittent fault with the meter, and I have read that this is relatively common for later Konicas.
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Old 10-26-2016   #11
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Thanks for the info johnf04.

I do have a gossen variosix f meter, so that wouldn't be a problem.

I've just found out that the nikon fm10 is capable of multi-exposures and apparently has a shutter that doesn't need batteries, so if they have a brighter finder than an FM, and are much cheaper than an FM2, then I may get an FM10 and avoid the lubrication problem altogether.

I've just seen a video of someone going into detail about the FM10, and when he shows how to use the double-exposure lever while winding on the film, he also stops the film rewind lever turning. Is this the 'usual' way to treat the rewind lever when doing multiple exposures? After doing the double-exposure he also puts the lens cap on and does a 'normal' expsure so that there's no overlap between the the double-exposure and the next 'normal' exposure. Is this 'usual'?

Any help would b emuch appreciated.
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Old 10-26-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
Thanks for the info johnf04.

I do have a gossen variosix f meter, so that wouldn't be a problem.

I've just found out that the nikon fm10 is capable of multi-exposures and apparently has a shutter than doesn't need batteries, so if I can find one that has a brighter finder than an FM, and is much cheaper than an FM2, then I'll get one of them and avoid the lubrication problem altogether.
The meter fault means you can't use EE mode (shutter priority) reliably.
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Old 10-26-2016   #13
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I've owned the same Konica Autoreflex TC since 1985, I have never had any problems with any lenses, and over the years it has had many lenses on it.
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Old 10-27-2016   #14
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@johnf04, oh, is that all? I wouldn't be using shutter priority in landscapes.

@MikeMGB, thanks for the info, and for adding to my lack of ability to make my mind up, by making me think that perhaps the konica route isn't such a risk after all.
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Old 10-27-2016   #15
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Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
@johnf04, oh, is that all? I wouldn't be using shutter priority in landscapes.

@MikeMGB, thanks for the info, and for adding to my lack of ability to make my mind up, by making me think that perhaps the konica route isn't such a risk after all.
You'll probably be just fine with the Konica, I use mine exclusively with a Sunagor 24mm now, it has also been used with a Tamron 80-200 SP Adaptall-2 with no problems, plus many other third-party lenses over the years.
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Old 10-27-2016   #16
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My Konica Hexanon lenses were so good and inexpensive that I never really went looking for third party lenses. One that I did buy recently (because it cost practically nothing and was in excellent condition) that really impressed me with its build and image quality is a Vivitar 135mm f2.8.
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Old 10-27-2016   #17
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I have the third party lenses - a Vivitar 70-150mm f3.8, and a Tokina 28-85mm, because I was given the Konica TC outfit. A workmate of a nephew was going to bin it, and the nephew knew I would give it a home. It came with a 52mm f1.8 standard lens, and a 55mm Macro-Hexagon, as well, and the lenses still look brand new.
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Old 10-28-2016   #18
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MikeMGB wrote:

"You'll probably be just fine..."

That 'probably' of yours could make me think twice about going konica. On the other hand, I've read that nikon fm10's had plastic gears in the film-wind train and that would make me think twice about going FM10.

Bah! Why is it, that whenever I start doing any research about something I'm thinking of buying, there are always things to make me think 'Yes!' and 'No!' and thus get me all dizzy?

@johnf04, Oh, you were given the tc and lenses, eh?

When my uncle learned of my interest from my mother, he said he thinks he's still got some bits left from years ago. I knew at one point he had an oly om1 and a couple of lenses. I didn't think I'd get them, but I haven't even got a ruddy* blower brush from him. lol.

*= for those who don't know, 'ruddy' is not a swear word, if it was my nanna wouldn't have used it. Although I've always known that it was used instead of a similar word that stats with 'bl'.
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Old 10-28-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
MikeMGB wrote:

"You'll probably be just fine..."

That 'probably' of yours could make me think twice about going konica. On the other hand, I've read that nikon fm10's had plastic gears in the film-wind train and that would make me think twice about going FM10.

Bah! Why is it, that whenever I start doing any research about something I'm thinking of buying, there are always things to make me think 'Yes!' and 'No!' and thus get me all dizzy?

@johnf04, Oh, you were given the tc and lenses, eh?

When my uncle learned of my interest from my mother, he said he thinks he's still got some bits left from years ago. I knew at one point he had an oly om1 and a couple of lenses. I didn't think I'd get them, but I haven't even got a ruddy* blower brush from him. lol.

*= for those who don't know, 'ruddy' is not a swear word, if it was my nanna wouldn't have used it. Although I've always known that it was used instead of a similar word that stats with 'bl'.

The main problem is that anything you get is going to be a few decades old, you'll "probably" be fine with any of it, but you "could" also have problems with any of it.
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Old 10-28-2016   #20
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The other problem my TC has, is a sticky mirror buffer - the mirror holds up for a short time after each exposure. To make things awkward, it's hidden behind a deep plate.
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Old 10-28-2016   #21
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@MikeMGB, couldn't you help me out by saying "You'll almost certainly be alright with it" or something? That may put my mind at rest and help me decide.

@johnf04, that wouldn't bother me too much, as I recently bought a Zenit C, which hasn't got an 'instant return' mirror, it uses string to pull the mirror back down.
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Old 10-28-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
@MikeMGB, couldn't you help me out by saying "You'll almost certainly be alright with it" or something? That may put my mind at rest and help me decide.

@johnf04, that wouldn't bother me too much, as I recently bought a Zenit C, which hasn't got an 'instant return' mirror, it uses string to pull the mirror back down.

You'll almost certainly be alright with it

There, how's that?

Find a good Konica and you won't be disappointed.
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Old 10-28-2016   #23
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I've been considering getting a Konica T4 for landscapes, as it has a multi-exposure capability, (for blurring water etc. without using ND filters on top of any other filters I may be using at the time)
Not sure what you are trying to do here. "Multi exposure" on the T4 is nothing more than the double exposure feature found on most SLRs. It cocks the shutter without winding the film. How does this replace an ND filter?
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Old 10-28-2016   #24
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@MikeMGB, I'd say thank you, but your "Find a good konica and you won't be disappointed."

makes me think "Hmmm, does that mean I'll have to buy half a dozen to be sure?"

I don't know if just being pessimistic and finding something to 'think' about in an effort to stop myself spending any money, or just being cautious.
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Old 10-28-2016   #25
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If you buy a Konica camera that needs service you can contact Greg Weber at http://www.webercamera.com/ . Greg has decades of experience repairing Konica SLRs. When Konica stopped making cameras he bought out their parts in the US.

In fact if you want to buy a camera that you are sure is in top condition you could buy directly from him.

NOTE: I do not have any relationship with Weber Camera beyond being a satisfied customer.
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Old 10-28-2016   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
@MikeMGB, I'd say thank you, but your "Find a good konica and you won't be disappointed."

makes me think "Hmmm, does that mean I'll have to buy half a dozen to be sure?"

I don't know if just being pessimistic and finding something to 'think' about in an effort to stop myself spending any money, or just being cautious.
You could say the same of the Nikon. Buy one from someone who seems to know what they are talking about, they're more likely to be honest.

Here's mine, beat up, battered, heavily used but still working just fine.

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Old 10-30-2016   #27
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I suppose you're right, MikeMGB.

I read that last line of your last post as:

"Here's mine, beat up, buttered, heavily used but still working just fine."
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Old 11-15-2016   #28
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I thought I'd just chip in here about the "shutter opening when winding the film..." issue. As someone already pointed out, this is an issue with the body, not the lenses. Moreover, this issue is found on the Autoreflex T3 and T3N bodies only. Those two cameras have different linkages in the automatic exposure mechanism than the cameras that preceded them. The later cameras (Autoreflex TC and Autoreflex T4) are not affected either. The problem has to do with the lubrication of the ring within the camera's throat that actuates the lens' aperture mechanism, whatever lens is mounted on the camera. This problem is more likely to arise with some lenses than others only to the extent that the spring tension on the aperture mechanism of some lenses is stiffer than on other lenses and the ring in question has more resistance to overcome. Hope this helps.
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Old 11-16-2016   #29
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Not sure what you are trying to do here. "Multi exposure" on the T4 is nothing more than the double exposure feature found on most SLRs. It cocks the shutter without winding the film. How does this replace an ND filter?

Sorry Bille, I've only just noticed your post.

I know that 'multi-exposure' is the same as 'double exposure', but Iwant a non-digital camera with an actual switch rather than have to faff about pressing the rewind button and holding the the re-wind lever while operating the film-wind lever to cock the shutter without winding the film, which is what the instruction books for many of the cameras I've considered say to do.

What I want to use multi-exposure for, is to blur things like water and maybe long grass while having the rest of the picture basically sharp unless I'm trying to go for the 'painterly' softness angle. I want to do this without ND filters so that I can use graduated gray filters to balance out the sky and land and not have to use too many filters at once, thus affecting image quality too much.


@konicamera, thanks for the useful info.
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Old 11-16-2016   #30
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The only camera I've come across with built in double exposure is the Ricoh 500 me - a small rangefinder camera.
http://www.ricohforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8028
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Old 11-16-2016   #31
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The other cameras that have a (slightly) simpler double exposure are Zenit Es and Bs. After firing the shutter, hold down the shutter release and wind the speed setting knob anticlockwise, then let go the shutter release. This winds the shutter, without moving the film.
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Old 11-17-2016   #32
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@MikeMGB, couldn't you help me out by saying "You'll almost certainly be alright with it" or something? That may put my mind at rest and help me decide.

@johnf04, that wouldn't bother me too much, as I recently bought a Zenit C, which hasn't got an 'instant return' mirror, it uses string to pull the mirror back down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seany65 View Post
@MikeMGB, I'd say thank you, but your "Find a good konica and you won't be disappointed."

makes me think "Hmmm, does that mean I'll have to buy half a dozen to be sure?"

I don't know if just being pessimistic and finding something to 'think' about in an effort to stop myself spending any money, or just being cautious.
I really appreciate a man who is easy to please.

As to your question on multiple exposure, using the rewind button and lever, it can be done. I haven't done it often (not my usual style) but I have used it successfully. Tighten the film a little in the cassette, but not so much as to cause it to pull the film back in when you push the rewind button. Push in the rewind button (you may have to hold it in with some cameras). Slowly use the film wind lever as usual and take your photo. I would suggest you try it a few times on scenes you don't care too much about, to see if what you do works, or if not, try some slight variation, like more or less tensioning of the film in the cassette. Of course, the above should be on a tripod.

As to Hexanon lenses, the father of one of our interpreters the last time I was in Korea, had told the interpreter that many in the far east professional photographers preferred the Konika cameras due to the excellence of their lenses.
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Old 11-17-2016   #33
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@johnf04, I've got a Ricoh 500GX which has a multi exposure sliding button thing and little circle, but it's only a fixed lens, and so is a bit limited for landscapes.

Interestingly, there are copies of the 500gx that also have a raised hotshoe and an orange button on the multi-exposure button, with the noughts of the '500' further apart than 'normal. Ther are some with a white GX instead of red.

Oooops, I sound like a real 'anorak' in that bit don't I?

The Rollie SL35E has a multi-exposure lever just below the wind-on lever on the back. Apparently it's also got stepless shutter speeds even in manual! I was thinking of getting one but it seems the electronics a really unreliable.

I appreciate you mentioning the zenit E and B, but Nah, too much messin' about.

@oftheherd, thank you for the instructions, but that's even more messin' about than johnf04's suggestion, and me being a bit of a thicko and lazy, clumsy little turd, I won't be daring to try it that way.

Call me cowardy-custard if you must.
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