How to clean reels?
Old 08-23-2016   #1
Jake06
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How to clean reels?

My Paterson reels are getting near impossible to use as the chemical build-up on them is causing the film to stick as it winds onto the reel. I'm always careful to make sure the reels aren't damp so I think we can rule that out as being the cause of the problem. I've been able to crudely force 35mm onto them without any damage, but having mangled a roll of 120 I now accept that I need to do something about it.

I have three reels, two of which have been sitting for a few years gathering dust and just generally getting dirty (they weren't in a box or anything). So I'm looking for the best way to clean them thoroughly, something that will get in between the tracks.

I've always had trouble loading 120.
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Old 08-23-2016   #2
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Someone probably has a better solution but I use diluted bleach and then just leave them in a bucket of water ad it does the job.
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Old 08-23-2016   #3
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Diluted white vinegar. Scrub with a toothbrush.
If they are dusty and generally dirty, put them with your dirty dishes to actually clean the dirt off, then use the vinegar to remove the old chemicals.
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Old 08-23-2016   #4
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I'll give the vinegar a go. How much should I dilute it?
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Old 08-23-2016   #5
Bill Clark
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What I do is wash the reel, container, cap, stir stick and the thingy to put the reel on after each use. Leaving chemicals like photo flo on to dry I believe is a no-no.

Hope you get yours clean.

I use a stainless steel reel and tank for 120.
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Old 08-23-2016   #6
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I have a similar problem with gray emulsion buildup on the Jobo plastic reels. I clean them with dishwasher liquid and a toothbrush every time I have developed films, but the emulsion buildup is getting worse & worse.
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Old 08-23-2016   #7
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It may sound funny.... I scrub them when they are dry with a dry toothbrush right before use.
A quick blast of air to get rid of any bits.
It seems like this sort of "burnishing" makes the reels super smooth and film loads on really easily.
It's become a part of developing workflow for years now.
Take the stupid Ball bearing out if you have not already. Solves lots of issues.
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Old 08-23-2016   #8
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Quote:
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I'll give the vinegar a go. How much should I dilute it?
I dunno! I just pour a bit in a cup. Maybe 1:10?

If I remember correctly, it came from Roger Hicks, no idea where though.
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Old 08-23-2016   #9
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This post is basically why I gave up on Paterson reels and switched to steel. There's a learning curve when using them, but once you get it, you're set.
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Old 08-23-2016   #10
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I've never had a problem with chemical residue buildup on my plastic reels.
After the fix I rinse my film thoroughly on the reels, and my water may be different.
Do you have hard water? This might contribute to the problem.

There is a solution sold for cleaning photographic trays.
Coffee maker cleaner is a mild acid and might work as well.

If you find a simple solution please report back.

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Old 08-23-2016   #11
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I mix vinegar and water 1:1 and leave the reels sit for about 15 minutes. Then I scrub them with a toothbrush.

Rinse in hot water, hot enough to make my fingers quake, and repeat.

So far that is all I have to do and the reels are smooth as new.

My wife tells me that an ammonia solution will work quicker but she won't sleep with me that night!

Never tried the ammonia bath.

EDIT - BTW, I set the vinegar soaking and scrubbing bowl under the stove top fan to keep the fumes from permeating the house too much.
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Old 08-23-2016   #12
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I don't think I want to use ammonia either lol

My stovetop fan doesn't work, but that's a good idea.

My water is quite soft, but I'm sure the vinegar would deal with that anyway.

Acid, hot water and a scrubby toothbrush seem to be the agreed method, so I'll try it out and see how it goes. I have a roll of 35mm to be developed so I'll let you all know fairly soon.

Is it acceptable to dry out reels using a hairdryer?
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Old 08-23-2016   #13
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I'm with Chris, and perhaps have just been lucky, but I've never had to wash my reels. Right after I pull my film off the reels I just give them a good rinsing in hot tap water and let them dry in the dish rack. I've never had an issue with chemical build-up, the reels binding, etc.
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Old 08-23-2016   #14
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I suppose I can't guarantee that it's chemical build-up. I just know that they're becoming a real pain in the butt and I want to fix it somehow haha
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Old 08-23-2016   #15
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Hi Jake,
I can tell you that, yes, it will be accumulated residue, easily fixed.
A few years ago I had similar problems. These days after I'm done processing I leave the reels in a tub of piping hot water with a few drops of dishwashing liquid for a while. As a bonus, the laundry I develop at is in a built in cupboard area with sink etc. I hang the films to dry on hooks inside the doors. So the steam from the hot water also helps the films to dry without dust spots. (I also use a filtered water supply and dust is usually negligible these days and I've had a few frames with—no spots—not one!)

Once the water has cooled enough to touch, I just scrub each reel with an ordinary, garden-variety nylon dishwashing scrubbing brush and rinse in clean running water before leaving to dry. It's quicker and easier than a toothbrush.

If you have films that are particularly problematic, you can run a bit of lead pencil around the inside of the spirals, ideally something fairly soft like a 2B. This will coat the spirals with a little graphite. I don't do it routinely but as I develop for other people sometimes I'm asked to process very old films. Old 120 and 620 rolls can be right mongrels to get on the reels—I think they take a set after decades of being tightly wrapped around the spool, particularly 620 ones. These days I'll use some pencil for such rolls as a matter of course. Last week I processed a bunch of ancient rolls, some of which had been exposed when JFK was still alive—seriously—and, with reels cleaned as above and a bit of graphite they all went on the reels first go. Keep at it, most of us have been there.
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Old 08-23-2016   #16
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One of the reasons why steel reels and steel tanks are the way to go. Of course there is a hoax about them being difficult to use, which has always been beyond my understandings. Steel reels will never cause you such problems, steel tanks won't break or crack over time, and steel tanks use less quantities of working solutions than plastic tanks.
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Old 08-24-2016   #17
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Mine get a black build up, and really start to turn black all over after about 100 rolls. A quick scrub with vinegar and they're back to new. It's not that much effort once a year really.
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Old 08-24-2016   #18
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I wash my paterson reels in hot water with a bit of detergent and give them a good scrub with a brush.
followed by a rinse in very hot water, flick off as much water as I can and then dry them with a towel as best I can.


Leaving water droplets to dry on the reel might not be the best idea. I'm lucky as the tap water here is very soft. so very little calcium deposits after drying.

I have had major binding issues with Superpan 200 film in 35mm for some reason. Other films would spool in fine, but Superpan 200 always seems to jump the rails and get creased.
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Old 08-24-2016   #19
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Quote:
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This post is basically why I gave up on Paterson reels and switched to steel. There's a learning curve when using them, but once you get it, you're set.
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Old 08-24-2016   #20
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I use an old toothbrush, and scrub vigourously both sides, to the top then bottom. It needs a serious effort.
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Old 08-24-2016   #21
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So I tried steeping the reels in diluted vinegar for two hours, which didn't seem to change anything. I wonder if I was dealing with caked on dust and general dirt rather than chemical deposits.

I then took the reels to the bathroom sink, ran the water as hot as I could handle and scrubbed with a toothbrush and a mixture of shampoo and dish soap. They still have a yellowish discoloration but they're smooth again. I loaded in a roll of 35mm in seconds - not the ten minutes it normally takes me. I checked and double checked inside the changing bag to make sure I hadn't missed the reel entirely, but it was really on there. I'm amazed.

Film is drying now, I might post an image from it if I got anything nice.
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Old 08-24-2016   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
I mix vinegar and water 1:1 and leave the reels sit for about 15 minutes. Then I scrub them with a toothbrush.

Rinse in hot water, hot enough to make my fingers quake, and repeat.

So far that is all I have to do and the reels are smooth as new.

My wife tells me that an ammonia solution will work quicker but she won't sleep with me that night!

Never tried the ammonia bath.

EDIT - BTW, I set the vinegar soaking and scrubbing bowl under the stove top fan to keep the fumes from permeating the house too much.



Agree on the vinegar dilution. I did the same process (vinegar and tootbrush) thing when I used Paterson and Kodak plastic strip "reels".

Started to use metal reels though, because my dad keep teasing me about those (He insisted real men used steel reels )

Marcelo
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Old 08-24-2016   #23
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Years ago I bought an ultrasonic cleaner. I used if for cleaning metal parts for Rapid winders - mainly the levers which are stainless steel and punched out in a die. Always a lot of grease left on them.
I now have relegated the cleaner to clean Paterson reels. Dilute solution of "jewellery" cleaner and hot solution. Takes about 10-15 minutes in the bath, rinse in hot water and dry.
Problem is that chemicals like Photo Flo can leave residue - it dries and really mucks up the loading process. The ultra sonic cleaner removes it - and also cleans the ball bearing bal. They tend to get really cruddy.
Some films are worse than others - my current nemesis is Aerecon Plus X - feels like the emulsion is coated on Saran Wrap!!! Stainless reels is no help - just flopping around.
The Paterson will do it - but with some effort. I buy reels whenever I find ten at swap meets (must have 100+ by now. This way I can ensure that they are dry when I cycle through them (they are hanging on rods on the wall in the darkroom - 7-8 per rod.
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Old 08-24-2016   #24
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[IMG]inside Tom's darkroom - this digipic was taken by Tom for RFf by T&T and Mr B Abrahamsson, on Flickr[/IMG]

Reel rack on the right, above the washing sink - there are more stashed away in cabinets and occasionally I swap them around.
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Old 08-24-2016   #25
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That's one nice setup you have there Tom.
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Old 08-24-2016   #26
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I don't know how frequently it should be done. Those that seemed to be causing my problem were just done but I have a lot of tanks and reels. To do all of them at one sitting would take time, but the 3 tanks and 5 reels I just did took a little over 30 minutes, not including drying time. Not too bad really.

Another interesting interesting observation here. Some people use steel tanks and reels, others use plastic tanks and reels. I think that is great. Photography is full of these democratic choices that people can make that really have no impact on the outcome.

Why is it then that each side must religiously and vigorously insist that their way is best and that people on the other side are drooling idiots?
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Old 08-24-2016   #27
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Quote:
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. . . . Some people use steel tanks and reels, others use plastic tanks and reels. . . .
I use both, and can therefore say from experience that stainless reels need a LOT less cleaning. That's why I normally transfer from plastic to steel for the final Photo-Flo wash.

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Old 08-24-2016   #28
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having used both metal and plastic reels (Patterson and Kodak) I've found they are equally durable, given their proper care (cleaning and proper handling).

I guess I keep using metal because the metal tanks I own are smaller than my Patterson tanks, so it helps to save developer.

Marcelo
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Old 08-24-2016   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpaniagua View Post
having used both metal and plastic reels (Patterson and Kodak) I've found they are equally durable, given their proper care (cleaning and proper handling).

I guess I keep using metal because the metal tanks I own are smaller than my Patterson tanks, so it helps to save developer.

Marcelo
Dear Marcelo,

Durable, yes. But what about cleaning? How do you clean them?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 08-24-2016   #30
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If Photo Flo is indeed the culprit suggest you switch to Edwal LFN.
It is very concentrated and comes in a dropper top bottle.
It works just as well and hasn't caused any such problem for me.

Chris
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Old 08-24-2016   #31
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Quote:
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I use both, and can therefore say from experience that stainless reels need a LOT less cleaning. That's why I normally transfer from plastic to steel for the final Photo-Flo wash.

Cheers,

R.
Do I understand that correctly? You transfer for final wash?
Why would you use the plastic at all..?
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Old 08-24-2016   #32
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I stopped using Patterson reels, especially with 120 film, because I just found them too hard to load. The old Patterson reels, from pre-1979, loaded more easily (you can tell them from the new reels because they have three prongs on the center collar instead of the two that Patterson has now). But when I was using them, I scrubbed them with a toothbrush after each use, and dried them well, then kept them inside the dried Patterson tank.

Only using stainless steel reels now, but I still scrub them with a toothbrush after each use and dry them well, then store them in their respective, dried, stainless steel tanks.
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Old 08-24-2016   #33
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Dear Marcelo,

Durable, yes. But what about cleaning? How do you clean them?

Cheers,

R.
Usually I wash my reel with my film on it with running water. After that I remove the film and put it to dry. I would wash the plastic reel with vinegar and water solution (about 1:1, not really that strict on that). Probably a scrub with a toothbrush now and again. I havent been using the plastic reels that often lately, but never got any problem with dirty reel ever. Got reels (Paterson) from about 10-15 years ago and they are pretty much usable (a little yellow with age I suppose, but nothing serious).

Like I said, dont really use Paterson much lately to save a little developer and because metal reel kinda make me nostalgic (my dad only used metallic reels).

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Marcelo
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Old 08-24-2016   #34
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Here's what mine look like with about 10 rolls through them (rear) and about 40 (front). The gunk is pretty obvious, and removing it makes the world of difference.

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Old 08-24-2016   #35
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Dear Marcelo,

Durable, yes. But what about cleaning? How do you clean them?

Cheers,

R.
By the way, what developer do you use Roger?
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Old 08-24-2016   #36
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I wash my paterson reels in hot water with a bit of detergent and give them a good scrub with a brush.
followed by a rinse in very hot water, flick off as much water as I can and then dry them with a towel as best I can. ...
I do something very similar. After every use, I scrub the Patterson reels with a stiff brush, in hot water with some dishwashing liquid, and let them air dry. I've had no problems with residue build-up and the reels function pretty much as new.
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Old 08-24-2016   #37
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Here's what mine look like with about 10 rolls through them (rear) and about 40 (front). The gunk is pretty obvious, and removing it makes the world of difference.

Wow! I guess my gunk problems must be pretty minimal. I don't think mine have ever looked like that.

I have a small amount of black staining on my Jobo 1500 reel but my Paterson's stay much cleaner than that. A good rinsing in a bowl of water must be a good thing.

If I had to clean that every 40 rolls I guess I'd start using steel as well.
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Old 08-24-2016   #38
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Looks like black mold.

Chris
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Old 08-24-2016   #39
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Wow! I guess my gunk problems must be pretty minimal. I don't think mine have ever looked like that.

I have a small amount of black staining on my Jobo 1500 reel but my Paterson's stay much cleaner than that. A good rinsing in a bowl of water must be a good thing.

If I had to clean that every 40 rolls I guess I'd start using steel as well.
Wow, I've never seen anything like that. Mine just looked a little dirty, not even as bad as the ones at the back in that picture.
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Old 08-24-2016   #40
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Michael...are you sure you didn't swirl those around in some muddy water for our benefit?
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