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Is something wrong with 28mm FL?
Old 05-31-2012   #1
BobYIL
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Is something wrong with 28mm FL?

These months what I note with the general interest in some preferred wide angles that people are talking primarily on some 35mm and 21mm lenses. Very few had mentioned about 28mm FL.. Is it phasing out?

I am aware of the fact that it has never been as popular as the 35mm FL however some great photographers come to mind who were using 28mm extensively. Salgado, for example.. Garry Winogrand, Sam Abell need to be mentioned.. Bruce Gilden too..

Both Summicron asphericals, 28/2 and 35/2 are great lenses; however I tend to believe as if for each 28mm one Leica is selling ten 35mm Summicrons.

I might be wrong, however this is what I found a little weird..
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Old 05-31-2012   #2
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There has been a general tendency towards wider lenses in the past two or three decades (perhaps driven by wide-screen cinema and now TV formats), so that many now use 35mm as a "wide normal" - which reduced 28mm from "first strong wide in the series" to "not wide enough to warrant owning".
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Old 05-31-2012   #3
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I more often use 35 than the 50/28 combo. And I agree that for wide use 21 or wider is more spectacular. That said, if I had a Leica or ZI with 28mm framelines and and Elmarit 28, I would be very happy. I also note that the wide lens for Fuji X1 pro is 28mm equivalent.

For me one of the pros with 28mm is that its wide but still fairly free from the natural geometric distortion of wider focal lengths.
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Old 05-31-2012   #4
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I think I said this a couple of weeks ago when the topic came up, but my go-to combination 35 years ago when I was a news photographer was 28/50. At the time, Leica didn't have a 24, I don't think, just a 21, and the 21 was my "special" wide lens for unusual situations. These days it's 24/50 on Nikons, the 50 is feeling a bit long, and my 20 gets no use at all. 24/35 would make sense, but I can't bring my self to depend on 35mm as my "long" lens. I'm thinking that one of those 14/2.8 Samyang lenses would be nice to have--I had a 15mm Voigtlander until about five years ago and it got a lot of use.

In my case, it's a change in my personal space--I stand a lot closer to things than I used to. Maybe everyone is. . . . we definitely are living in more "in your face" times, I think.
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Old 05-31-2012   #5
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I shoot with both, but for street shooting , I tend to use to 35mm. 28mm often requires getting in too close for comfort in order to fill the frame, 35mm allows you to fill the frame without becoming an annoyance. Also, just enough depth of field to compensate for any minor focusing errors,and for zone focusing, as opposed to a 50mm.
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Old 05-31-2012   #6
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I think it's like sevo said. I know many PJs use a 24mm as their standard wide lens - or even standard lens - these days. Notice how Nikon and Canon have fancy 24/1.4 and 35/1.4 lenses but no current 28/1.4. To me 24mm feels a bit too extreme for a standard wide, often used for cheap effect. 28mm feels just right for a wide-angle, and I'm glad Ricoh is still around with their GR cameras.
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Old 05-31-2012   #7
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Per others, 35 has become the "new 50" or normal, @ least for RF users. In the wider (no pun intended) photographic world, 24 has supplanted 28 as the most popular wide (mostly, IMHO, because so many people are shooting crop-factor dSLRs).

If Leica decides to upgrade the M8 & keep a crop-factor body in their lineup, that might boost popularity for the 28s.
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Old 05-31-2012   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmfan View Post
You say that the 28mm lens has "never been as popular as the 35mm FL," yet you then find it "weird" that the less popular lens sells less than the more popular lens...

Personally, I find your question rather weird.
Before it was only 135 format, i.e. what FF is called today and apparently 35 was more popular than the 28.. With the new crop formats like the M8 and APS-C, the 28mm FL should mean different than what it used to do before, for it's not the coverage of 28mm anymore.. Capito?
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Old 05-31-2012   #9
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On rangefinders it could be due to framelines... lack of framelines or them being to close to the edge of the VF for many people.
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Old 05-31-2012   #10
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Then there are those who just do not care what is most popular with the rest of the world and use what works for us. That happens to be 28mm for me but I understand other people have other choices. My choice may be different in a few years, just as it was many years ago.
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Old 05-31-2012   #11
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My SLR photojournalism lenses were 24/50/85/180. When I discovered RFs in the late '80s there weren't any reasonably priced Nikon RF lenses in the 24/25mm range, and they anyway required a separate finder. So I settled for the 28mm and slowly grew to prefer it over all the other focal lengths for its ability to let you immerse yourself into a scene without showing much distortion. So then the superwide was a 21mm Biogon. But the lens always mounted on my SP or S3 is a 28mm, with the others in a bag. I only use the 35mm for lowlight work because of its speed. If I truly must carry only one lens, I go back and forth between 50 and 35mm. I just never warmed up to 35mm.
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Old 05-31-2012   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filmfan View Post
You say that the 28mm lens has "never been as popular as the 35mm FL," yet you then find it "weird" that the less popular lens sells less than the more popular lens...

Personally, I find your question rather weird.
Being snarky is not helpful. The point he's making is that a lot of excellent photographers use the 28mm focal length, so why is 35mm that much more popular? And the others have contributed thoughtful responses to the OP.
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Old 05-31-2012   #13
David Hughes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
On rangefinders it could be due to framelines... lack of framelines or them being to close to the edge of the VF for many people.

I'll second that and add that I wish I could afford a 28mm and VF for my M2. Although the 28mm, USSR made Orion is very nice and guessing works well for me.

Regards, David
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Old 05-31-2012   #14
michaelbialecki
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I love the 28mm focal length........it used to be my primary lens......but that has changed ever since I bought the 35mm/1.2.....my 28mm lens is an Elmarit which is a little "slow" but I love it......

I use it often on my m6ttl but I do occasionally use it on my m2 and I use the whole finder as "frame lines", it works fine for me.....

cheers, michael
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Ok
Old 05-31-2012   #15
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Ok

Quote:
Originally Posted by andersju View Post
28mm feels just right for a wide-angle, and I'm glad Ricoh is still around with their GR cameras.
Had to make sure this camera line was mentioned. The GRD is the camera that doesn't give a F about what people not worthy of it think about 28mm FOV. Now everybody who said bad things about 28mm go wash your mouth and send a letter of apology to Ricoh.

I once cursed my GRDIII, and have been tormented by nightmares about Ricoh discontinuing the GRD ever since, in which hordes of Japanese pro photographers are chasing me, shouting that it was all my fault.

I have also been seeing (what are hopefully) hallucinations of Ricoh employed ninjas, keeping an eye on me when I walk the streets of Tokyo. With the stealth capabilities of the GRD line, I am now convinced that Ricoh is a former ninja clan evolved to a camera company.

Then again, that 21mm conversion lens for the GRD is pretty neat. If they would release a 25mm (FOV) GRD with 1,6 crop sensor, then that would rock!

I think I saw something black moving outside my window. No, ninjas don't exist, or should I call the police? If they wou
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Old 05-31-2012   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
I'll second that and add that I wish I could afford a 28mm and VF for my M2. Although the 28mm, USSR made Orion is very nice and guessing works well for me.

Regards, David

I'll be third that I wish I could afford too . Actually 28mm is my favorite angle and the only lens I had being used with my SLR during 5 years before switch to my M2+cron 35 V1.
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Old 05-31-2012   #17
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I never could get on with a 28. Seemed too wide, while the 35 seems wide but normal. Of course, this preference was developed while shooting film. the 28 on my m8 is just right.
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Old 05-31-2012   #18
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I find the 28 to be a great lens for shooting in the street - if you can get close and compose, you get a lot of stuff in, if you want to be stealthy, you just shoot from the hip. I use both the Summicron 28 and the Ultron 28/1.9 (this one for landscape), as well as GR1 for shooting on the road.

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Old 05-31-2012   #19
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Interesting that you prefer the ultron for landscapes, why that?
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Old 05-31-2012   #20
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i recently sold my 28 and do not miss it.
much prefer a 21 and have just bought today another 25 to give it a try.
i really like the 21 (on the rd1, so a cropped sensor) as it forces me to get in close and really look at what's in the frame.
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Old 05-31-2012   #21
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I have used a 28 and a 24mm in the past. I find the 24mm to be a bit more "liberating," personally. It makes composition a bit more dynamic/sweeping and it doesn't feel as restricted as a 28mm. When I shoot the 28mm I find that I want to put more things into the frame, rather than trying to use what available space I have.

I like a 28mm lens on a RF, but not on an SLR. I'll shoot a 24mm on an RF or an SLR. Different strokes for different folks / cameras, I suppose.
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Old 05-31-2012   #22
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I like the Ultron 28/1.9 (not the 28/2) for its low contrast/high resolution rendering, which makes it an ideal B&W lens for extended grayscale - similar to DR Summicron or the Summaron. However, when I need a 28mm for shooting in low light, the Summicron is king, as it has no coma even wide open.
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Old 05-31-2012   #23
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I very much like the 28 on both SLR and RF. I have the Canon ltm 28 2.8 and 3.5.
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Old 05-31-2012   #24
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Love the 28mm. Just bought a Contax biogon 28mm for my G1 in fact.
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Old 05-31-2012   #25
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28mm was my only wide angle for over 30 years. It seems very normal to me.

The next to come was a 24mm, which does feel wide.

So far, the only 35mm I've had have been in P&S so it always felt like a snapshot length to me.

So I like 28mm ... a lot
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Old 05-31-2012   #26
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I've just spent three years getting used to the 35mm focal length after being fairly locked into 50mm.

I don't think I have enough years left in me to get used to 28mm!
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Old 05-31-2012   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavinlg View Post
Love the 28mm. Just bought a Contax biogon 28mm for my G1 in fact.
Ah, for my Contax Biogon 28mm I bought a G1, based on Bob Michael's recommendation. It's an excellent lens, as sharp as my Leica 35 lenses; but sharper than the Distagon 28/2.8, sharper than the 28/2.0 Nikkor..
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Old 05-31-2012   #28
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I was out early this morning with my M6 + 28 Summicron taking autumn photos with Velvia 100 and 28FL felt the perfect fit. Never bonded with 35 at all and 28/50 seems to be me.
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Old 05-31-2012   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
Sharper than "your" 28 f2.8 Nikkor, or sharper than "the" 28 f2.8 Nikkor? Not all lenses are equal. Non AI, AI, AIS ? Is it new? Do you test and service the lens regurally? You may be correct.. just asking?
"... sharper than the 28/2.0 Nikkor.." I said..

My 28/2.0 Nikkor is AI, actually all 28/2.0 lenses non-AI, AI and AI-S share the same formula, coatings differ.

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Old 05-31-2012   #30
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Interesting thread. I went from 35 down to 25 and I am also now using a 21 a lot. I did take a holiday where I used only a 25. I suppose I was too mean to widen only to 28, knowing I would soon go wider anyway. And there is some opportunity cost photographically in investing in a new focal length and learning its ways. I may just never get to a 28 now.
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Old 05-31-2012   #31
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My minimal M lens setup (speaking of 135 film standard FoV) is 28/50, starting always with the 28 mounted, if I don't know where the next snap situation will come up. Same if I carry my standard lens setup (15/28/50/90): I mostly start with the 28mm lens.

As already mentioned here, I like the 28mm FoV alot because:
- in a hurry, I don't have to frame properly, can crop later
- widest frame lines on my M body
- wide, but still no distortion
- I feel it very similar to my own (focussed) FoV
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Old 05-31-2012   #32
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Just curious, but where is your data coming from?

Why do you believe for each 28 they are selling ten 35s?

Is this just from reading the internets that you think 28mm is phasing out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobYIL View Post
These months what I note with the general interest in some preferred wide angles that people are talking primarily on some 35mm and 21mm lenses. Very few had mentioned about 28mm FL.. Is it phasing out?

I am aware of the fact that it has never been as popular as the 35mm FL however some great photographers come to mind who were using 28mm extensively. Salgado, for example.. Garry Winogrand, Sam Abell need to be mentioned.. Bruce Gilden too..

Both Summicron asphericals, 28/2 and 35/2 are great lenses; however I tend to believe as if for each 28mm one Leica is selling ten 35mm Summicrons.

I might be wrong, however this is what I found a little weird..
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Old 05-31-2012   #33
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28 requires intimacy. 21 is for impersonal scenics. 35 people are used to from their point and shoots. Maybe.
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Old 05-31-2012   #34
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35mm is easier, as I see in 35mm. 50mm forces me to pick, 28mm to include more.

If I feel creative I use 50/28, if I carry a single lens or just want to get it done, I use a 35
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Old 05-31-2012   #35
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Nothing is wrong with the 28 FL, when I use it I love it.

There are times I love the 50mm, sometimes it is the 75mm, the 24mm is fantastic when I do take it out, I can walk around with the 35mm for a couple of weeks at a time. I am not going to like it when I have to narrow down my kit but that day is coming.


The 28mm I use is the Voigtlander Ultron Asph 28/1.9 and just love it as a couple of others have mentioned above. I had the opportunity to use a Leica 28 Cron for a few hours at a Leica event and loved that as well. I just do not think I can love it seven times as much at the Ultron. The output from the 28/1.9 has been fantastic and along with the Voigtlander Nokton Asph 50/1.5 are two VC lenses I do not think I will ever part with.

I know, never say never . . . . .
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Old 06-01-2012   #36
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28 is my favorite focal length. Particularly on indoor people shots or if I'm the part of a group. Wide but doesn't distort very much, so I can get a nice portrait and still show the background which I like in in my photographs, like windows, doors, whole rooms etc. Just a single person can often be it bit boring to me.

But when I do want just a person, the 50 or sometimes a 35 is the better choice.

I usually go out with a 28 and a 50 and on rare occasions the 21 gets to come along too.
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Old 06-01-2012   #37
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I changed my RF kit from 50-35-25 to 50-35-28-21 once I found a good, affordable 28. Sold the 25 and bought the wider 21. Now my RF focal lengths match my SLR lenses.
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Old 06-01-2012   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wblynch View Post
So far, the only 35mm I've had have been in P&S so it always felt like a snapshot length to me.

So I like 28mm ... a lot
So I do. I have 35mm FL only in compact film cameras and some SLR zooms. I still use film compacts with 35mm lens - because of overall experience not because I really like focal length - but it certainly helps to excersize.
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Old 06-01-2012   #39
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Check out the work of Jeanloup Sieff for a good look at what a 28 can do. He also used a 21 a lot.

http://www.jeanloupsieff.com/sieff.html
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Old 06-01-2012   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Sandhu View Post
28 requires intimacy. 21 is for impersonal scenics. 35 people are used to from their point and shoots. Maybe.

Not necessarily. It's quite the opposite for me. the 20 is for for up-close and personal, and the 28 is for taking in the scene or "painting" a tableau.
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