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one more time - too many pics!!
Old 08-28-2005   #1
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one more time - too many pics!!

cut & pasted from the 'for the newbies' thread.
this usually gets sent to the offending newcomers.

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greetings and welcome to the rangefinder forum.

it truly is wonderful to see so many people joining our community.
we have a short but rich history where humour and respect for each other have been the keys to success.


i want to make a suggestion, when you are posting your photos to the gallery, please take the time to note what camera/lens/film combination you used to make that photo.
the membership had a long discussion awhile back and found that many of us look as forward to the info about the photo as we do the photos themselves.

and also, when posting please do not post a dozen or more pics at a time, it leaves us little opportunity to see all the new postings and to make comments on them.
some people and their pics gets pushed along and the pics are not viewed.

there are (so far) no hard rules about posting pics and your cooperation will ensure that none will be needed.

many thanks,
joe
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Old 08-28-2005   #2
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It may be of moderatec interest what camera/lens/film/exposure someone used, but ask yourself this:

1 Am I using the same camera?
2 Am I using the same lens?
3 Am I using the same film?
4 Am I using the same meter?
5 Am I using the same film speed?
6 Am I using the same metering technique?
7 Am I shooting the same subject?
8 Is it under identical lighting?

If ANY ONE answer is different, consider the possibility that the information requested is substantially useless.

Cheers,

Roger

Last edited by Roger Hicks : 08-28-2005 at 08:19. Reason: Mistake -- hit wrong button
 

Old 08-28-2005   #3
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no caps still?
 

Old 08-28-2005   #4
back alley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
It may be of moderatec interest what camera/lens/film/exposure someone used, but ask yourself this:

1 Am I using the same camera?
2 Am I using the same lens?
3 Am I using the same film?
4 Am I using the same meter?
5 Am I using the same film speed?
6 Am I using the same metering technique?
7 Am I shooting the same subject?
8 Is it under identical lighting?

If ANY ONE answer is different, consider the possibility that the information requested is substantially useless.

Cheers,

Roger

roger,
must you argue about everything?

some of us enjoy knowing some of the details, the more details the better.

and caps are bourgeois...

joe
 

Old 08-28-2005   #5
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be that as it may, I like to know a little about the equipment used for any given shot

the lens, in particular, is good to know since I might be considering purchasing that same lens, and would like to see its perspective

film info is interesting in that it shows a sample of what the grain might be like, unless it has been processed in an unusual way

while it is potentially useless, it is also potentially very informative.. no one is reprimanded for his or her choice to share or withhold information here.. but the more we share, the more we can all learn
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Old 08-28-2005   #6
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How about a message more to the point:

"Don't post so many damn photos at the same time!"
 

Old 08-28-2005   #7
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I may impose a 10 picture per day upload limit in the near future. RFF has a GIGANTIC collection of pictures
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Old 08-28-2005   #8
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Dear Joe,

OF COURSE I have to argue about everything. It's what I get paid for... (not here, alas... but take a look at the back page of Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK)

Yes, the details are often interesting -- but are they actually worth anything? Many people conflate 'MP, 75/2 Summicron Aspheric, Kodak EBX' with 'has the faintest idea of what he is doing because he owns an expensive camera', whereas you and I know fuill well that 'Is bloody good and could produce stunning pics with anything' (I hasten to add that I wish to make no such claim) is a lot nearer the mark.

The attached pic tells the story. Of course, every one else on the forum has the option of shooting exactly the same subject (a 200+-year-old pewter charger) in in MY studio with MY lighting on 56x72mm Ilford film, using a Linhof.

Sorry, don't want to appear combative, but that's how it is.

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #9
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I won't bring the sentence about the quality vs. quantity issue and the art of self criticism again. The gallery has become almost useless to me, good shots are drowning under the masses of snapshots. I chose to look directly at the few galleries from photographers I know from here.
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Old 08-28-2005   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
It may be of moderatec interest what camera/lens/film/exposure someone used, but ask yourself this:

1 Am I using the same camera?
2 Am I using the same lens?
3 Am I using the same film?
4 Am I using the same meter?
5 Am I using the same film speed?
6 Am I using the same metering technique?
7 Am I shooting the same subject?
8 Is it under identical lighting?

If ANY ONE answer is different, consider the possibility that the information requested is substantially useless.

Cheers,

Roger
Roger, that's a silly statement. I don't read this info so I can duplicate someone else's photo -- I read for curiosity and the often-encountered moment of 'ah, I never thought of trying out that particular combination -- here's an example and I really like what I'm seeing -- I may give that film/lens combo a whirl one of these days.'

When I see no info posted, I get a feeling of incompleteness, as if the photographer didn't know/remember/care.

Gene
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Old 08-28-2005   #11
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roger,
i have not been able to locate that mag here in edmonton.

while i understand your comments and somewhat agree - i agree more with gene.

most here are curious about the details and hope to learn from, deduce from, and gain some form of inspiration from.

you of all people here, with such a burning desire to educate us in all things, surprise me, that you would hold this info back from us.

joe
 

Old 08-28-2005   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneW
{snip} When I see no info posted, I get a feeling of incompleteness, as if the photographer didn't know/remember/care.

Gene
Agree with your sentiment, Gene.

Brett - well said earlier in the thread! I too am particularly interested in lens information.

Jorge - I don't think that 10 is enough of a limit. 5 is more like it.

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Old 08-28-2005   #13
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I'm probably an offender. I get a lot of shots save up and then take about 6/7 rolls of film into the processing shop and put onto CD's. Then when I get them back I have to admit that the details get a little vague. Some are shot on AE others are fully manual. I have five 120 / med format cameras and a slew of 35 mm cameras. Some are Olympus (XA, XA2, RC, etc) Some are Yashica (GSN, Lynx 14, Electro etc) MF Ikonta ( 531, 532) Voigtlander (Perkeo, Perkeo II)

I don't remember what is going on when I'm shooting. I just shoot. Did I use AE on the Mamiya? Did I use AE on the Oly? Did I use manual on the Yashica?

Last week I loaded 11 shots. Fair comment regarding several views. Some people view my shots as snapshots and not photographs so they don't bother to look at them because they have a favoured short list, others want the uploads to be fewer so they can review them more carefully.

I guess I could upload a few at a time, if I had the luxury of being retired or not having other issues to deal with daily. I put 'em all up when they come in because I don't know when I'll get time again.

So thats my situation. Now I'm going to go and take pictures/snapshots/photographs. With a rangefinder. Not a view finder, not a digital camera, not a point and shoot.

It's a great day and I'm going to go get some of it. Have a good one RFF'ers

Jan
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Old 08-28-2005   #14
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Fair do's, Gene, it wasn't meant to be a put-down. But seriously, ask yourself: what does the camera/lens/film information REALLY do except fire a desire to buy more kit/change film? Surely better to ask yourself, "If I like this picture, how could I duplicate it (or better still improve on it) with the kit I actually own?"

And to be honest, I often don't know/remember/care what I used for a particular pic: I go onn probability (over half the 1000+ pics I shoot every year are an MP and a 35mm lens). The pic is the thing. I take it with what's available. If I'm near home, that's an unbelievable amount of kit. Away from home, it's what I have with me.

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #15
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i'm afraid i am also leaning in the direction of imposing a limit.

i don't know about servers and file sizes but the posting of snapshots, using the gallery to host a family style photo album and by many who don't contribute to the forums, is starting to/continuing to annoy and aggravate quite a few here.

joe
 

Old 08-28-2005   #16
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Dear Joe,

Do I detect I tiny bit of irony here:

you of all people here, with such a burning desire to educate us in all things, surprise me, that you would hold this info back from us.

Point taken -- after all, benighted colonials need all the help they can get, meme les canadiens -- but seriously, sn't there MORE education in realizing what information is vakuable and what isn't?

Incidentally I have just discovered that the Acadiens (Cajuns, pour ceux canadiens qui ne parlent pas francais) came disproportionsately from hereabouts in the northern Aquitaine.

Amities,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
OF COURSE I have to argue about everything. It's what I get paid for... (not here, alas... but take a look at the back page of Amateur Photographer magazine in the UK)
I don't get that magazine here. If I did, your attitude in this forum would prevent me from buying it. I've been reading this forum for a few months now, and I'm not impressed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Sorry, don't want to appear combative, but that's how it is.
I think you do.
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Old 08-28-2005   #18
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Roger Joe is a Yank...

Thanks for listening Jorge!!

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Old 08-28-2005   #19
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Well, dkapp, whose problem is this? Yours, or mine?

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #20
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Just my 2 cents worth but I like knowing what lens/film combination took a particular picture.

I tend to like pastel colors and if a film has knock-yer-eye-out brilliant colors, highly saturated and contrasty, I don't want to use that film. Knowing what was used by others helps me avoid film I won't like. The same rationale goes for B&W film; i.e., does a particular lens/film/developer give a pleasing result or is it too grainy, flat etc.?

A great deal of emphasis has been placed on "bokeh" in recent years. It's helpful knowing which lens was used when the bokeh is appealing to me and which lens renders horrible out of focus images.

Other than that, I suppose such information is pretty meaningless.

Walker
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Last edited by doubs43 : 08-28-2005 at 10:09.
 

Old 08-28-2005   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Well, dkapp, whose problem is this? Yours, or mine?

Cheers,

Roger
From where I sit, it sounds like yours. I don't rely on people wanting to hear what I have to say to pay my rent...you do.

Dave
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Old 08-28-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
Point taken -- after all, benighted colonials need all the help they can get, meme les canadiens -- but seriously, sn't there MORE education in realizing what information is vakuable and what isn't?
it's a good thing we have you to make that distinction for us, Roger
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Old 08-28-2005   #23
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Dear Dave,

Yes, and I'm not worried. Nor do I pay rent.

Joe: To quote Flanders and Swann (Swan?) from memory, from 'The English Are Best'

"It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad/It's knowing they're FOREIGN that makes them so mad"

Manolo: ****stirring? Moi?

Walker: your point about film is entirely fair, but what's it worth after Photoshop and the web and God-awful monitors?

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #24
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This thread is a waste of time. I go to the gallery to see photos from the people with whom I converse on the forum, not three pages of snapshots from some guy named "alt" that I never heard of. Until there's a limit on gallery postings, why bother.
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Old 08-28-2005   #25
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Camera, lens and film. F stop if you can remember or noted it. The last can be tough when you are hurried to catch a shot. The first three aren't really all that hard to keep track of.

It helps me understand what tools produce what results. Yes, the individual's eyes, mind and the moment matter most. But, the tools do count.

Besides how else are we gomig to keep G.A.S. alive.

I won't even bother to mention the need for self limitation when it comes to posting images. Oh... wait... I just mentioned it.
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Old 08-28-2005   #26
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A disappointing thread to read. I wish people could remain objective.
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Old 08-28-2005   #27
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1. Amateur Photographer is available in the U.S. and Canada, at least by subscription. It's weekly, it's got regular contributions by Ivor Matanle, it's got Roger Hicks' weekly diatribe (which I read religiously), and of the general interest photo magazines it's about the least taken in by digitalmania (i.e., it's actually got more than a token number of film-based topics and its editor isn't a stooge for the digital industry). The web-site is amateurphotographer.com and I think the e-mail address for subscriptions is [email protected].
2. We've gotten off-topic. I disagree with Roger on this one but I understand his point entirely. If one reads his columns his mind-set grows on one. My main reason for wanting to know details is that I like seeing all the nice old cameras at work (especially Argus).
3. I'm guilty of too many uploads at once. I will limit to 3 from now on.
4. I agree that the gallery is being drowned by snapshots. I hope that mine are not perceived as snapshots but who knows; let me know.

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Old 08-28-2005   #28
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Sorry, Bob, it IS hard to keep track of what camera and lens you used 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago -- and WHO CARES? I can go on probability -- which Leica, the focal length from the apparent perspective -- but I can't guarantee it. Had they discontinued Fuji RF/RFP at that tiime? Was I using Kodachrome faute de mieux? Does it matter?

Shoot what you can, now, with the kit you have. Everything else is worthless. Do you care what kit I used? No. Do I care what kit you used? No. So YOU care what kit you used?

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #29
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Whatever. It matters to me.

I have said enough.
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Singing, any fish bites if you got good bait
Here's a little tip that I would like to relate
Many fish bites, if you got good bait
I'm a goin fishing, yes I'm goin fishing
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Old 08-28-2005   #30
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One more thing. (my wives, current and past, tell me that I love to have last words)

I know what camera, lens and f stop I shot 20 years ago. It's written on the transparency mounts.
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Singing, any fish bites if you got good bait
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Last edited by Fedzilla_Bob : 08-28-2005 at 12:25.
 

Old 08-28-2005   #31
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Dear Anand,

What's objective, on a matter of opinion?

Dear Julian,

I'm delighted you disagree. You have thought about it. Great. The same goes for Bob. But at least we're THINKING and arguing instead of saying "It's always been done this way therefore it should always be done this way. "

This is not meant to sound patronizing. Your opinions are worth at least as much as mine. But without debate, how do we know anyone's opinion? And how do we form our own opinions?

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #32
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i don't think we're talking about photo lessons or what 'secret' will i learn from all this tech info?, for me, IF YOU ARE SO INCLINED, put down some details from that recent shoot, IF YOU NOTE THESE THINGS in the first place.

i'm like roger (heavens) in that i don't pay particular attention to exposure details except for the moment i'm shooting.
it's usually easier for me to remember what gear i used as i normally go out with one camera and one lens and most of the time it's a p+35. the type of film is on the neg.

now, everyone, take a big fu**ing breath and share the love

joe
 

Old 08-28-2005   #33
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'But without debate, how do we know anyone's opinion? And how do we form our own opinions? '

just ask me, i'll tell you my opinion.
i just find the confrontational approach too tiring and i can learn without the pain.

joe
 

Old 08-28-2005   #34
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Dear Joe,

Sorry, I don't mean to be confrontational. But (a) it's my nature and (b) I have a law degree. Your view is 100% wise -- but then, I would say that, wouldn't I?

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #35
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A rousing chorus of "Koom By Yah" maybe?

No worries. Just sharing thoughts.
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Many fish bites, if you got good bait
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Old 08-28-2005   #36
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Dear Bob,

Hey, Lordie...

Cheers,

R
 

Old 08-28-2005   #37
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It's interesting that none of the pictures in the Lee Friedlander retrospective at the Museum of Modern Art was captioned with the "camera, lens, shutter speed, aperture, film" information. It was fairly apparent when he made the change from Leica to Rollei Ultrawide, but that bit of knowledge wasn't critical to enjoying the pictures.

Magazines have printed that information for years and years, as if it was critical to understanding and enjoying the photo, and we've been conditioned into believing this. But if you actually LOOK at the photo, 9 times out of 10 you can figure out the lens focal length and aperture used (and shutter speed if it wasn't instantaneous). Even if you can't, it doesn't change your understanding and enjoyment of the photo. After all, if this information really was that important, museums and galleries would demand it and display it for each of the photos in their collections.

However, I will say that this information is of interest when looking at old magazines. It is intriguing to see what some of the old timers could do when f 3.5 and Weston 25 were "fast."
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Old 08-28-2005   #38
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Dear ddun,

YES!

If you can't figure it out, it probably won't matter anyway.

If you can figure it out, it doesn't matter.

And figuring it out on the web is (a) next to impossible and therefore (b) worthless anyway.

Cheers,

Roger
 

Old 08-28-2005   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backalley photo
i don't think we're talking about photo lessons or what 'secret' will i learn from all this tech info? joe
Joe, you've reminded me of a story that my father told me years ago.

Our small-town Methodist Church once had a Minister who became interested in photography. He rushed out and bought a camera, lenses, enlarger and all the necessary items required to develope film and print enlargements. When he couldn't produce a decent print, he asked my father for help.

My father joined the Minister in his darkroom and asked him to make a test strip of his negative. The Minister immediately threw a full sheet of 8x10 paper under the enlarger! My father stopped him and asked why he was using a full sheet. Why, that's how he made his test strips! My father then explained how to cut the sheet into strips and place them under the important parts of the enlargement. Then he demonstrated how to make a decent print from the results of the test strip(s).

It was then that the Minister shocked my father by asking for his "secret" to making good prints. Pop explained that there was no "secret" and that it was simply a matter of practice and learning. The Minister actually became angry and insisted that Pop was withholding his "secret" from him. As far as I know, the Minister was never satisfied that Pop wasn't keeping something from him. I don't know if he ever found out what the "secret" was as I believe he quickly tired of photography.

Walker
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Old 08-28-2005   #40
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I'm not sure exactly why, but I do like reading the technical details of a photograph while I am enjoying the asthetic axpects of a photograph. The extra context somehow "completes the picture" for me. Must be the gearhead part of me. I'm certainly not going to use the info to try to replicate the image with the same camera/lens/exposure/developer etc. I just like knowing the details.
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To The Virgins, To Make Much Of Time bmattock Off Topic 3 10-28-2004 17:36
Time to recharge my mind some... marksct Rangefinder Photography Discussion 8 06-25-2004 15:04
Pics on Old Rangefinder & EOS system? cmc_photo Rangefinder Photography Discussion 11 04-21-2004 21:48



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