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Lines/cracks running through M2 rangefinder patch...
Old 03-04-2019   #1
mistertonton
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Lines/cracks running through M2 rangefinder patch...

I just got this M2, and I'm curious about these lines running through the RF patch. I tried doing a bit of research, but I was only able to pull up a couple threads from a number of years ago.

There is some balsam glue in the VF, which is visible, but not when actually looking through the viewfinder. The seller has said that it's been CLA'd recently and that they were assured by a reputable source it would not get any worse. Though, these lines were not apparent in any of their images. They're difficult to picture, but definitely noticeable when looking through.

I'm inclined to believe them, as they have a history of selling and seem like a straightforward person. I just want further opinion, I suppose. I intend to use this camera for a long time, and I'd like to get off to a good start with it.

I've included a picture of my RF patch and one I found online for comparison. It was difficult to get the "lines" to come into focus, but I think it's sufficient enough to get my point across.


Thank you


https://imgur.com/a/HEYoDbZ
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Old 03-04-2019   #2
maddoc
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Things become better visible when you hold the camera with the VF eye-piece against a bright light source and look into the RF window, which is the small, left window when you look at the front of the camera. Any signs of separation or deteriorating silver layer will blocking the light pass in the prism and appear black in the little window.
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Old 03-04-2019   #3
mistertonton
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Interesting. There's nothing alarmingly obvious. Though, there are some tiny, almost indistinguishable lines running across the front of the window. It's crazy to think they're responsible, being so small. I can barely see them. Aside from that, light's coming through well. There's one strip of, with my lack of experience, I'm guessing is balsam glue running down the middle of the RF window, but this was pictured well before purchase and it's not really noticeable when looking through the VF.

Now that I think about it, it raises the question: why can't I see it on the patch? None of the lines on the patch correlate with the shape of the glue in the VF. Real strange.

It's not a huge impact on the camera's use or the overall experience. It's just not perfect, right? Though, what was I expecting from a 60 year old camera at a reduced price?

I'll probably just use it. In the price range I was trying to get one, they all had their quirks. I could argue this would need a more expensive repair than a simple CLA, but I don't know. It'll be worth it, even if I only get a couple years out of it. Who knows, maybe it'll look the same in a decade? Maybe I won't even have an interest in photography by then? Maybe I'll be knitting or something? Life's short. Money comes and goes. I'll just take some pictures.

Thanks, my friend.
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Old 03-05-2019   #4
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If you can see lines that look like fine scratches or small hairs in the rangefinder patch when you look through the viewfinder, it is the frameline mask delaminating. You cannot see them without looking through the viewfinder, as you would to focus the rangefinder.

I had this happen to my M4. The frameline mask in M2 to M4 is a glass sandwich. The fix is to replace the mask. Mine was replaced with one from an M4-2, which is a metal plate with the framelines cut into it. I had this done as part of a full rebuild, which included shutter curtains, at Kanto Camera. Cameraworks does a “free to air” mask for the M2 which is a similar idea. Cost is on their website.
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Old 03-05-2019   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mute-on View Post
If you can see lines that look like fine scratches or small hairs in the rangefinder patch when you look through the viewfinder, it is the frameline mask delaminating. You cannot see them without looking through the viewfinder, as you would to focus the rangefinder.

I had this happen to my M4. The frameline mask in M2 to M4 is a glass sandwich. The fix is to replace the mask. Mine was replaced with one from an M4-2, which is a metal plate with the framelines cut into it. I had this done as part of a full rebuild, which included shutter curtains, at Kanto Camera. Cameraworks does a “free to air” mask for the M2 which is a similar idea. Cost is on their website.
Are those M4-2 framelines the same size as your original M2 framelines, or are they smaller, like the ones in an M6?

My M2 also has those little lines. At an LHSA annual you can turn your Leica in to be checked, and later in the day they hand it back with a report on its health. He said pretty much the same thing. I can't remember if he said "decementing" or "delaminating" but I'm sure it's pretty much the same thing.
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Lines/cracks running through M2 rangefinder patch...
Old 03-05-2019   #6
Mute-on
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Lines/cracks running through M2 rangefinder patch...

Rob
The M4-2 framelines look exactly the same size as the original M4 framelines they replaced in my camera. I did have the 28 and 75 framelines masked to be as original.

My M2 35mm frameline looks the same size as my M4, just visible at the edge of the viewfinder. The 28 from the M4-2 would have been outside the viewable range.

I am aware that either the later M4-2 or M4-P frameline mask was reduced to M6 size, but I have no idea when that occurred.

Cheers

J


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Old 03-05-2019   #7
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Rob
The M4-2 framelines look exactly the same size as the original M4 framelines they replaced in my camera. I did have the 28 and 75 framelines masked to be as original.

My M2 35mm frameline looks the same size as my M4, just visible at the edge of the viewfinder. The 28 from the M4-2 would have been outside the viewable range.

I am aware that either the later M4-2 or M4-P frameline mask was reduced to M6 size, but I have no idea when that occurred.

Cheers

J


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Well, I am aware that some M4-ps have the full-size framelines, and some have the reduced size. But I don't know how or when that happened.
Thanks for the reply!
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Old 03-05-2019   #8
Mute-on
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Well, I am aware that some M4-ps have the full-size framelines, and some have the reduced size. But I don't know how or when that happened.

Thanks for the reply!


Thanks for confirming that. I honestly can’t recall if they said the replacement was from M4-2 or M4-P. Perhaps it was M4-P.

In any case, they are the same size as original.


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Old 05-17-2019   #9
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I bought an M2 with similar signs. I spoke with Youxin and he could not verify what they were. I decided to return the M2.
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Old 05-17-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
Well, I am aware that some M4-ps have the full-size framelines, and some have the reduced size. But I don't know how or when that happened.
Thanks for the reply!

My guess would be when they switched from the brass top, to zinc.


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