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Did HCB Henri-Cartier-Bresson develop the negatives by himself?
Old 05-06-2019   #1
kiemchacsu
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Did HCB Henri-Cartier-Bresson develop the negatives by himself?

Well, we probably all knew about his famous printers who handled most of his prints. However I haven’t found any evidence about how his films were processed?
Has anyone have any idea about this?
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Old 05-06-2019   #2
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"In 1937, Cartier-Bresson married a Javanese dancer, Ratna Mohini.[11] They lived in a fourth-floor servants' flat in Paris at 19, rue Neuve-des-Petits-Champs (now rue Danielle Casanova), a large studio with a small bedroom, kitchen, and bathroom where Cartier-Bresson developed film".
source: Wikipedia

"He insisted that his works not be cropped but otherwise disdained the technical side of photography; the Leica was all he ever wanted to use; he wasn't interested in developing his own pictures".
source: The New York Times
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Old 05-06-2019   #3
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HCB was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. This means he never got his hands dirty.
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Old 05-06-2019   #4
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
"In 1937, Cartier-Bresson married a Javanese dancer, Ratna Mohini.[11] They lived in a fourth-floor servants' flat in Paris at 19, rue Neuve-des-Petits-Champs (now rue Danielle Casanova), a large studio with a small bedroom, kitchen, and bathroom where Cartier-Bresson developed film".
This is correct.

Everyone should read the biography of Henri Cartier-Bresson by Pierre Assouline and also the small but great book "Interviews and Conversations 1951-1998", edited by Clément Chéroux and Julie Jones. Aperture, 2017.

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Old 05-06-2019   #5
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From 1950 onwards, after Pierre Gassman launched his "Pictorial Service" lab in Paris (changed into "PICTO" in 1963), HCB's negatives were developed at Pictorial / PICTO and noticeably printed by Georges Fèvre.

Before, that's hard to tell. "Here and there" would be the most accurate answer.

About the negatives not being cropped : John Loengard brought out some evidence of exceptions to the iron rule in his book "Celebrating the Negative" published by Arcade Publishing in 1994.

See :

https://greg-neville.com/2012/01/07/negative-secrets/
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Old 05-06-2019   #6
Erik van Straten
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
From 1950 onwards, after Pierre Gassman open his PICTO lab in Paris, HCB's negatives were developed at PICTO and noticeably printed by Georges Fèvre.
Gassmann printed Henri's pictures already in the 1930's. See the book by Assouline.

Henri bought his first 35mm camera, a Krauss Eka, in 1931 in Africa.

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Old 05-06-2019   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
HCB was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. This means he never got his hands dirty.
So. He didn't fight with nazies, he didn't escaped three times. Nor he was living by hunting and getting paid for. And he followed China Red Army in the golden zeppelin.

How long the true proletarian will last in the place where person you photograph is getting killed few hours later?
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Old 05-06-2019   #8
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Gassmann printed Henri's pictures already in the 1930's.
Yes, from time to time in Gassman's apartment rue Jean-Jacques Rousseau in Paris.
They had met in 1933 : then HCB went to the other side of the Atlantic for two years. Gassman didn't and I doubt that HCB's negatives shot in Mexico and the USA were to be developed by Gassman when HCB came back to France in 1936, wanting to become a movie director.

Then from 1939 to 1946 he couldn't stay in close touch with Pierre Gassman, for reasons everybody knows.

The same after the war when he spent several years in various far foreign countries, burning about 850 rolls of film, before he came back to France in 1950 with Ratna. I doubt he was sending them to Gassman by mail then.
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Old 05-06-2019   #9
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He was sending them to Magnum in New York.

Later on Gassmann had laboratories in New York too.

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Old 05-06-2019   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
He was sending them to Magnum in New York.
Magnum didn't exist before 1947 so it remains quite unclear where Henri's negatives shot in 1934-1936 and 1939-1946 were developed.
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Old 05-06-2019   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Magnum didn't exist before 1947 so it remains quite unclear where Henri's negatives shot in 1934-1936 and 1939-1946 were developed.
I presume he did it himself. Not very difficult, developing film. I already did it perfectly when I was twelve.

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Old 05-06-2019   #12
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HCB was a staunch enthusiast and heavy user of 777 fine grain developer.

see paragraph 9:
https://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Harvey/harvey.html
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Old 05-06-2019   #13
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He did it until he didn't have to. Then he had others do it for him.
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Old 05-06-2019   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
He did it until he didn't have to. Then he had others do it for him.

How do you know that? Did he told you?


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Old 05-07-2019   #15
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it turns out that a simple question has led to interesting discussion about photography history.
And yes, while he bulk loaded the films by himseld, he send his films out to develop under his strict supervision. Below context was some time in 1965 in India:

Quote:
Surprisingly, all the technical work of processing Cartier-Bresson’s negatives and photos was to be done at NID under his strict supervision. It was known that precise processing of his negatives was vitally important to Cartier-Bresson. In fact, in the matter of processing his films he trusted no one but one particular lab in Paris.
Source: http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2...by-ishu-patel/
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Old 05-07-2019   #16
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Originally Posted by kiemchacsu View Post
And yes, while he bulk loaded the films by himseld, he send his films out to develop under his strict supervision.
What exactly is "strict supervision"? Did he stand around and watch them develop his film? Maybe "strict instructions" is more accurate.
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Old 05-07-2019   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
This is correct.

Everyone should read the biography of Henri Cartier-Bresson by Pierre Assouline and also the small but great book "Interviews and Conversations 1951-1998", edited by Clément Chéroux and Julie Jones. Aperture, 2017.

Erik.
Thank you for mentioned the book, Erik.
Very interesting, he started doing his own developing and printing when he was twenty. He always did his own developing when he was traveling, in the hotel sink, and changed the film under the bedcovers ("Interviews and Conversations 1951-1998", edited by Clément Chéroux and Julie Jones. Aperture, 2017), Interview with Byron Dobell (1957).
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Old 05-07-2019   #18
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Yes, thank you, Toreno!


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Old 05-07-2019   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
So. He didn't fight with nazies, he didn't escaped three times. Nor he was living by hunting and getting paid for. And he followed China Red Army in the golden zeppelin.

How long the true proletarian will last in the place where person you photograph is getting killed few hours later?


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Old 05-07-2019   #20
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Originally Posted by Toreno View Post
Thank you for mentioned the book, Erik.
Very interesting, he started doing his own developing and printing when he was twenty. He always did his own developing when he was traveling, in the hotel sink, and changed the film under the bedcovers ("Interviews and Conversations 1951-1998", edited by Clément Chéroux and Julie Jones. Aperture, 2017), Interview with Byron Dobell (1957).
Actually this book was first published in French in Dec. 2013 by the Centre Pompidou under the title : "Voir est un tout. Entretiens et conversations (1951-1998)". Edited by Clément Chéroux and Julie Jones this is a compilation of 11 interviews with various people and a "Questionnaire de Proust" HCB played with.

Besides its "Interviews and conversations" subtitle, the French main title literally says : "Seeing is the whole thing".

It is a pity that the English title omits this. This is not of zero importance.

In the interview with Richard L. Simon (1952) HCB mentions an American lab named "Leco" he used to order developments and prints from when he was living in the USA.
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Old 05-07-2019   #21
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NO If he did he would have learned to expose properly. It take a darkroom magician to print his stuff I understand.
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Old 05-07-2019   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
How do you know that? Did he told you?


Erik.
According to a couple of biographies I've read he most certainly processed his film early on. It was mentioned he processed his film while he worked as a hunter in Africa long before photography became his career. And while working as an international photojournalist he shipped his film out for processing by the publications he worked for or had it done at Magnum later on.

This information is readily available from various sources in print and even on the semi-literate Internet.
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Old 05-07-2019   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogman View Post
According to a couple of biographies I've read he most certainly processed his film early on. It was mentioned he processed his film while he worked as a hunter in Africa long before photography became his career. And while working as an international photojournalist he shipped his film out for processing by the publications he worked for or had it done at Magnum later on.

This information is readily available from various sources in print and even on the semi-literate Internet.

Yes, I know that, but I did't know that you knew this too. I'm sorry if I caused any inconvenience.

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Old 05-07-2019   #24
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Originally Posted by kshapero View Post
HCB was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. This means he never got his hands dirty.
Hmmm ... ... But he was a supremely talented photographer who had an incredible impact on photography--then, now, and in the future.
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Old 05-07-2019   #25
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There is a huge amount of repeated semi-truth and myth on the web and in the secondary literature about HCB.

If you have a legitimate academic or historical reason, you can make an appointment at the Foundation Cartier-Bresson https://www.henricartierbresson.org/en/ and look at many of his negatives. I have done so, although a lot of the information I received was from Martine Franck, who I met there, but that was (obviously) before Martine died.

The sleeves of some of his negatives are marked as to where they were processed, and others have accompanying notes.

Some are pretty poorly exposed, but most of them looked good to me, particularly in later years. That may be associated with progress in 35mm film technology as well as changes in methods and technique. Having said that, Gassman had several legendary printers who worked for him.

Arguing from secondary sources is just reiterating and sustaining the myths.

HCB knew how to develop film and developed some himself, particularly before WWII. The majority of his work was developed by Gassman, particularly during his very productive and prolific phase after WWII. Some films have a colour that indicates they were developed in 777, much of it does not. So the answer is "it depends but mostly he got someone else to do it when he could". Which is what I would do too if I were in France post-WWII and had the resources to outsource those tasks.

One thing that did not surprise me is that some of his famous photos were often printed from repro negs made from very good prints. This was standard practice in the 20th century to avoid risking damage to significant negatives from repeated handling and printing.

Marty

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Old 05-07-2019   #26
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According to MoMA's description in an exhibition a few years back, here is a print done by HCB himself:
https://www.moma.org/interactives/ob...982.html#recto

Excerpt:
"This is a rare example of such a photograph, printed and finished by Cartier-Bresson himself, who was outspoken about his distaste for darkroom work (after 1935 he focused exclusively on taking pictures and left the printing to others). The fiber content of the paper reveals it to be a European photographic paper produced in the 1930s; it is a double-weight paper with a smooth surface, easy to handle in the darkroom when wet and resistant to scratching. The paper was scored and then each side of the print was trimmed by hand. (Evidence of dark lines at the trimmed edges are visible, possibly from the black border of the negative’s edge.) A swirling finger smudge in the lower-right corner indexes the moment the artist held the corner down as he pivoted the paper to trim the next edge. He retouched a flaw on the face of each subject with graphite pencil but made no notations or stamps on the verso."

The back: (signed by HCB)
https://www.moma.org/interactives/ob...982.html#verso
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Old 05-07-2019   #27
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I read the whole thread - but am left asking, does it matter?


It's a bit weird to me, HCB after all wasn't really a "process" artist, on the other hand his pretense of never cropping indicates at least some weight placed on process over final product. But to the viewer, does it really matter one way or the other?
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Old 05-08-2019   #28
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I love all the "expert" opinions, concerning using and exposing film.
Film until much later in HCB's career was an iffy ASA (ISO)..
Even in 60's using pro film, included was an actual "close" ASA number!
It was Kodachrome and some Ektachrome as well as Agfs slide..
Add poor metering meters..
So exact exposures... that's life!
There was no internet and all developing by experience and luck.
Mechanical shutters are not 100% accurate!
So if occasional shots needed more burning or less, so what!
HCB shot and recorded life!

Imagine given a film, we don't tell you ISO, use an unknown developer,
a Leica Barnack with untested shutter and RF...
Even silver spooned rich kids don't stay in slums by choice!
Bravo bought meals etc. for HCB while in Mexico..
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Old 05-08-2019   #29
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If you see his prints in person, there's really nothing special about the printing or developing. Certainly nothing you'd want to emulate particularly.

Unlike someone like Salagado where the prints in person are really spectacular, HCB prints are pretty blah.

This isn't a comment about him as a photographer, just saying that his developing and printing process don't seem to be a part of his talent or his concern as a photographer.
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Old 05-08-2019   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
I read the whole thread - but am left asking, does it matter?


It's a bit weird to me, HCB after all wasn't really a "process" artist, on the other hand his pretense of never cropping indicates at least some weight placed on process over final product. But to the viewer, does it really matter one way or the other?


Well if you said so, nothing is really matter after all, including most of what we have been discussed here on RFF.
I guess, understanding the history context is another way to enjoy a photo


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Old 05-08-2019   #31
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Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
I read the whole thread - but am left asking, does it matter?
This question could be asked after every thread here...

With this one we, at least, have some interesting matter (but for the usual off topic/dumb posts...) to think of.

Thanks to Marty in particular for his very interesting report of his visit to the HCB Foundation before Martine Franck died.

That was when the Foundation was still located in a very charming place of the Montparnasse sector. Now they have moved to some larger rooms in the Marais, but the new place has no soul, sadly.
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Old 05-08-2019   #32
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Does what HCB did, what camera, how he held it, which lens, which film, how he saw his world, how he chose his subject, how he composed, how he handled processing, does it all matter?
It sure the heck matters to US! Threads like this call us back to his images, and don't we enjoy them!

He was a giant of 20th century photography. Was he a perfect man? The trolls who trash him are not worth a comment.
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Old 05-09-2019   #33
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Oh dear, it's begining to seem compulsary to put him and everything he did on a pedestal...

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Old 05-09-2019   #34
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A good cure for HCB worship is to go see a large collection of his work in person.

While still appreciating his eye, you will likely be less enamored of his technique, equipment or developing/printing process.
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Old 05-09-2019   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly View Post
A good cure for HCB worship is to go see a large collection of his work in person.

While still appreciating his eye, you will likely be less enamored of his technique, equipment or developing/printing process.
I`ve heard this said before although I`ve only seen a few prints of his myself as part of a larger exhibit .
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Old 05-09-2019   #36
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Getting your hands on the originals can be an eyeopener. The trouble is that a lot of red tape has to be unknotted before you get beyond what I call the photocopy of a photocopy.

Another problem is that reproductions tend to be reduced down and that can hide a lot of things. A 2" x 3" half tone is no substitute for the real thing.

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Old 05-09-2019   #37
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While still appreciating his eye, you will likely be less enamored of his technique, equipment or developing/printing process.
I saw a large exhibit of HCB's work at the Leica Gallery in San Francisco a couple of years ago. I wasn't really expecting much technically, remembering the adage "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept", but I was pleasantly surprised. I thought the prints were sharp according to the lens standards of the time, and well printed. The thing is if you just focus on technique, you are missing the whole show. Oh, and they were selling for $20,000-$35,000.
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Old 05-10-2019   #38
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Oh dear, it's begining to seem compulsary to put him and everything he did on a pedestal...
I wiped my eyes a few times before I re-read the whole thread. I still notice two kinds of stuff : posts answering the OP's question and putting some documented matter on the table, and OT-idiotic posts.

I have seen a lot of original prints of HCB's work. I feel like a lucky guy that this has occured to me, because that man was one of those who made the History (with a capital H) of small format photography during the XXth century. I would love to see some of his original negatives, like Marty did.

But, so far, I can see no pedestal. You still have to point it out so that it shows.
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Old 05-10-2019   #39
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An icon...the myth and the man. Tempers flare. It is obvious that there are some with an interest in the original question: did he developed his negatives himself. Some care and others don't. I suppose it is agreed that the bulk of his work was developed and printed by others. Does it affect his standing as a notable artist? I doubt it.
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Old 05-10-2019   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanskDynamit View Post
"In 1937, Cartier-Bresson married a Javanese dancer, Ratna Mohini.[11] They lived in a fourth-floor servants' flat in Paris at 19, rue Neuve-des-Petits-Champs (now rue Danielle Casanova), a large studio with a small bedroom, kitchen, and bathroom where Cartier-Bresson developed film".
source: Wikipedia

"He insisted that his works not be cropped but otherwise disdained the technical side of photography; the Leica was all he ever wanted to use; he wasn't interested in developing his own pictures".
source: The New York Times
The second part is untrue as even his famous puddle-jumper photo is seriously cropped. Just take a look at the contact sheet prints that are findeable online or in the magnum book(s). So if the first quote is as accurate and reliable as the second quote, then we still don't know how and by whom and where his film was developed
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