Leica IIIa spool
Old 01-16-2019   #1
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 417
Leica IIIa spool

Hi! I was looking for a spool for my 3a yesterday and several shops told me that the spool for russian and japanese clones (or generic ones) wont work with my 3a. they told me that the diameter and length may be different and that will cause my film to get tangled at worst i cannot see that happen to be honest and the only thing i can think of happening is if the spool didnt match the alignment of the sprocket then the worst that can happen is my film wont be parallel to the film rails.

hoping for your expert opinion, i am currently overhauling a 1934 3a that I found at the junkboxes and i would love to make this work again, i even got a pre-war elmar for it yesterday.
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-16-2019   #2
cassel
Registered User
 
cassel is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 639
I'm not sure about that... maybe? I use a pop-up Leotax spool in my Leica II and it works better than the original! Over the years I've heard of others using different spools for different cameras by choice or necessity. I think they are generally interchangeable...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-16-2019   #3
Livesteamer
Registered User
 
Livesteamer is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winston Salem North Carolina
Posts: 1,415
I have a pair of Leica IIIc's that I use with Canon take up spools. I like the pop up knob the Canon spool has. One spool works perfectly, the other is more troublesome. The problem spool does not grip the film leader tightly enough and if I push it all the way in, the sprocket will not engage the film. I am getting used to it but clearly there are slight differences. Good Luck. Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-16-2019   #4
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
Never had a problem with Russian spools,

I keep about 6, so I could quick load.

The only trouble is losing the skin off your finger tips dragging the Ruskies out after a roll.

+1 for Canon spools love the pop out knob.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-16-2019   #5
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 417
Thanks, everybody!

I have overhauled (and made an article) a Nicca3s, maybe I can use the spool from that camera. I will try and see if I can find a cheap Leica spool and if I can't then I will just have to look for canon spools
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2019   #6
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Hi,

I see them all as interchangeable but out of the dozens (spools) I have there is just one odd one that won't fit them all (bodies).

I prefer the USSR made ones as they have that nasty looking but very functional hook to hold the film.

And, BTW, early Zenits had spools that were removable. And, BTW2, early USSR made ones were a copy of the Leitz one with a clip that fails, just like the originals do...

Regards, David

Last edited by David Hughes : 01-17-2019 at 02:32. Reason: Those extra CRLF's...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2019   #7
MaxElmar
Registered User
 
MaxElmar's Avatar
 
MaxElmar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 588
Uh. Did someone say something about a "pop-up spool" for a IIIa... From a Canon or Leotax? Might one fit a IIIc of IIIf with such a device? My fingers are fatter than when I was a kid and I have no nails to speak of...
__________________
Chris L.

Still Photographically Uncool
https://www.flickr.com/photos/xenotar/


  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2019   #8
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
The Canon spools (think IVSB) have a nice little pop out knob that peeks out from the bottom of the camera making them SO MUCH EASIER to remove. You can find them liberated from their respective bodies on Ebay.

I had the opposite problem with my first IVSB, it came with no spool! Used a Zorki spool and it worked fine until I found the right spool for a few bucks at a swap meet YEARS ago.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2019   #9
Spavinaw
Registered User
 
Spavinaw is offline
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Rocket City
Posts: 585
What interchangeability??? I have cameras with the following spool hole diameters:
Tower 45 by Nicca 8.7mm
Leica M5 9.2mm
Yashica YF 9.7mm
Leica/Canon 10.3mm
None of them interchange. There may be more sizes I don't know about, so be careful before you order just any old spool.
By the way, I need a Tower/Nicca spool with an 8.7mm hole.
__________________
Are we having fun yet?
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-17-2019   #10
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,248
I was strictly talking about Canon/Leica/Zorki/FED screwmount cameras. I should have mentioned!
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-18-2019   #11
nparsons13
Registered User
 
nparsons13's Avatar
 
nparsons13 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Near Orlando, Florida, USA
Posts: 180
If I read fedka.com correctly, most Zorki spools will fit Leica, but only some early Fed spools will. I haven't tried using my Fed-2 spool in my Leica IIIa; I'd try it now, but my Leica is loaded.
__________________
my flickr pages
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-19-2019   #12
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Hmmm, I'm not sure there's a way of telling the FED from the Zorki spools as none I've ever seen have a make or anything to identify them I've them in brass, plastic and some white metal and with and without pull out ends but all with an 11.2mm* i/d.

I've just one with the Leica style clip and all the rest have that nasty looking but effective hook to hold the film leader.

Also, they get mixed up like lens caps. People often sell old made-in-the-USSR cameras without spools and who knows enough to identify the correct ones? It's like lens caps again...

FWIW, I've a 1936 FED that came with a plastic spool in it and a Zenit that came with a Leica style one in monkey metal, as we call it here.

Regards, David


* Most likely 11.15mm give or take 0.1mm.
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2019   #13
richardHaw
junk scavenger
 
richardHaw's Avatar
 
richardHaw is offline
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 417
here's an update: i just got the spring-loaded canon spool

it was cheap so i just swallowed my pride and bought it
__________________
Take me down to the Parallax City
Where the viewfinder's tiny
And the framing is tricky
http://www.richardhaw.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2019   #14
Livesteamer
Registered User
 
Livesteamer is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Winston Salem North Carolina
Posts: 1,415
Let us know how it works. I have several Canon spools and it seems that slight variations can have a big influence in whether or not the spool works well in a camera. Joe
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #15
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Since my post in January I've been looking at spools and cameras. It's very obvious with the Barnacks, FED-1's and Zorki-1's (and probably the very rare Zorki-2) that some take up spools will fit and some won't. So I was able to create two heaps of spools quickly and I have carefully measured 10 of them.

These are what fit the Barnacks, FED-1 and Zorki-1:-



The one on the left is a typical Leica spool; points to note are the criss-crossed knurled end and the arrow pointing to the clip. Not all of them have the arrow, btw. They all seem to be brass and some are painted and some blackened chemically. (The camera bodies checked date from 1926 to 1946.)

In the middle is a typical FED or Zenit or Zorki spool. It hasn't got the knurling like the Leica's and no arrow either but the clip is more or less the same. These and Leica ones sometimes have rounded corners to the clip.

Lastly, the one on the right with the nasty hook is from the old USSR and fits the Leicas etc but it's the exception. I had just two of them that fitted and dozens of hoooked ones that don't fit Barnacks etc.

As for measuring them; the Leica ones are about 0.024" shorter than the old USSR's ones. The internal diametres are the same but the clue as to their fit seems to be the diametre of the take up spools' slipping clutch post and its length. The ones that don't fit Barnacks etc all stick out too much for the bottom plate to close.

So the visual clues (for buyers) seem to be the clip's shape, knurling and sometimes the arrow. BTW, one of these Barnack fitting spools came in a Zenit from the 1950's.

I hope this is of some use. I wish sellers on ebay and so on would read this, they all think a spool will fit (say) a FED-1 and a FED-2 and so on and vice versa but the 1's are the exception. One of these days I'll start sending spools back...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #16
johannielscom
Ich bin ein Barnacker
 
johannielscom's Avatar
 
johannielscom is offline
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Universitas Terre Threntiae
Posts: 7,366
Completely agree with David, I had a spool come from eBay recently and it's the type III he shows, my Leicas won't close with it installed.

Also, I had a Russian spool in a Leica before that was very tight, the botttom plate closed fine but the spool almost fused itself on the cameras spindle, I needed small pocketable pliers to get it out every time. In the end I bought said Canon pop-up spool for it and never looked back...
__________________
Gegroet,
Johan Niels

I write vintage gear reviews on www.johanniels.com |

flickr | instagram |
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #17
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,554
Wich spool is the best to avoid perforitis? Perforitis is the appearance of the film perforation in the image gate of the camera. Bottom left in this picture.

Erik.

  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #18
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Johan, You need one of these but where you'll find one these days is beyond me.



It's an opal extractor, btw.

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #19
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
Erik, That question would be easy to answer with your camera and my hacksaw but putting the trapdoor back afterwards might just be difficult. I suppose you could take the cover off of the camera and experiment.


Regards, David
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-10-2019   #20
Erik van Straten
Registered User
 
Erik van Straten's Avatar
 
Erik van Straten is offline
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 8,554
Thank you, David, I'll think about it.


Erik.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-14-2019   #21
David Hughes
David Hughes
 
David Hughes's Avatar
 
David Hughes is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,475
I've been looking inside a FED-1, identical to a Leica for this post.



The take-up spools fit on to the part under the film winding knob (almost dead centre here) of this FED and the part beside it is from a FED-2 or 3 etc and positioned where it would be in a FED-2 etc. Note the position of the start of the taper of the FED-2 part, shown by the screwdriver blade. And can you see that the taper of the FED-1's part is some distance further away from the camera top?

Seeing this I looked into a few take up spools and saw a rivet end sticking out. The rivet is one of the two that holds the clip on the spool. So I can guess that early ones were neatly riveted. Later ones were not so neatly riveted and the clutch mechanism holding the spool was modified for the change.

So old ones fit nicely and newer ones stick out and stop you fitting the base plate...

Regards, David
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:48.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.