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Old 02-28-2019   #81
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I agree wholeheartedly, Peter! In marketing as with film, overexposure is better than underexposure. Someone in Fujifjilm management should push for better marketing to pull in new customers. They should look to tap into underdeveloped consumer markets.
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Old 02-28-2019   #82
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Wow, what a development! I'd better stop now, so it can be fixed. Its all a wash in the end!
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Old 02-28-2019   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
With all the film discontinuations and price hikes, Fujifilm has done a lot of Harman damage to their name. I know they are a diversified company, but if their film manufacturing division dyes off, they should consider changing their name to simply Fuji.
Instax is still film...
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Old 02-28-2019   #84
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Instax is still film...
What the halide, be darned... Looks like in this instant, I stand corrected.
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Old 02-28-2019   #85
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I don't have an instax camera, but I hear great things about them. Folks like Ted Striker rave about them. Seems there's literally no negative.
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Old 02-28-2019   #86
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Old 02-28-2019   #87
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Unless prices stay the same or go down, neither of which is likely to happen, people will complain. I think most rational people would prefer higher prices to discontinuation of product, but at a certain point it doesn't make much difference.
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Old 02-28-2019   #88
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Unless prices stay the same or go down, neither of which is likely to happen, people will complain. I think most rational people would prefer higher prices to discontinuation of product, but at a certain point it doesn't make much difference.
Yes, and the Fujifilm haters seem to complain with an especially awful DIN.
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Old 02-28-2019   #89
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Unless prices stay the same or go down, neither of which is likely to happen, people will complain. I think most rational people would prefer higher prices to discontinuation of product, but at a certain point it doesn't make much difference.
I would have happily paid 30% more for Neopan 400 and Acros. Sadly, Fujifilm did not give me the chance.
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Old 02-28-2019   #90
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Yes, and the Fujifilm haters seem to complain with an especially awful DIN.
Dourbalistar, keep 'em coming you're on a ROLL!

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Old 02-28-2019   #91
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Price is never determined by cost, but by the market. If Fujifilm believes their customers are willing to stomach the price hike, then why not? The firm will seek the best pricing to maximize its profits. Even though higher price means lower sales, if Fujifilm believes the price differential may well more than compensate the sale loss, then price hike!

To elicit sympathy and support from their customers, price-hiking is always advertised as covering raising manufacturing cost. But the truth is, unless market forces them, the company never drops price when the manufacturing becomes cheaper.

If the market price of certain films cannot cover their manufacturing cost, Fujifilm will stop making it. Actually it just did for several in the past years.
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Old 02-28-2019   #92
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Film discontinuations and rising prices are simply the burden we film photographers have to bear. That's just the landscape we live in today. I wish I could paint a happier portrait, but you know what they say: no pain, no grain.
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Old 02-28-2019   #93
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If we are not focal about our desire for more films from Fuji they will leaf the film business and shutter their doors in an instax.


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Old 02-28-2019   #94
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At Arista sounding like a pessimist, I'm afraid Fujifilm won't listen to their loyal customers. Despite our pleas, it appears Fuji films are in a darkslide toward extinction.
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Old 02-28-2019   #95
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I thought we were getting close to the base of the canister with these puns, but you lot just keep pushing.
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Old 02-28-2019   #96
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Gloomy-Indonesian-island-Celebrity is the leader! Can-his-star shine any brighter?
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Fuji film price hike in the offing
Old 02-28-2019   #97
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Fuji film price hike in the offing

This circular argument is polarizing their customers. The linear price increase warms some to the continued film availability and cools others to its imminent demise.
I am not neutral in this matter, hanging on by a thread. I do however insinghst on a dense range of products.


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Old 02-28-2019   #98
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Are we all resigned to this f/8? Will we just CineStill and take it? Who will grab a Holga the bull by its horns, and aperture the market that Fujifilm is vacating?
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Old 02-28-2019   #99
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I wouldn't want to blow the highlights, but if pushing this developing thread results in any unwarranted exposure, as a mod I may have to fix it and cut out any negative

But, dourbalistar you are the leader here without a doubt, no trimming necessary. I take my lens cap off to you.
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Old 02-28-2019   #100
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OK. Here's another official announcement - we've jumped the shark. Mods making puns is the beginning of the end of the roll, perhaps frame 34.
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Old 02-28-2019   #101
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Ikon not believe that mods are getting involved. How can we get Brownie points so that they don't stop down this thread?
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Old 02-28-2019   #102
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Best.

Thread.

Ever.

(no pun intended)
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Old 02-28-2019   #103
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I sincerely apologize to the OP for taking this thread off its focus rails. But I have a single-reflex when it comes to puns. I just Canon ALPA myself....
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Old 02-28-2019   #104
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Good grief!
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Old 02-28-2019   #105
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Good grief!
Hm, I think I've Zenit in the tea leaves. Some of you are FED up. I don't want to Kosmo trouble. If you guys want me to stop, Soviet.
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Old 02-28-2019   #106
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Good grief!
Yeah, I know. Sad thing watching people that don't know when to stop...

Even sadder when watching something you enjoy immensely (Fuji film) being stopped.
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Old 02-28-2019   #107
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Yeah, I know. Sad thing watching people that don't know when to stop.
Itís okay, thereís another master roll in storage waiting to be distributed.
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Old 02-28-2019   #108
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(In an old school rap style)

I am the Alpa, the Omega, the KONIg of Mount Fuji.
The Top con of the hill there is none higher, your favorite films I will retire.
Buy in bulk, roll your own cans. Put it in the freezer or it will expire.

Reala, Acros and Natura are in the past. Provia, Velvia and Superia have no futcha.

1-3-5 and 4x5, 8x10 and 1 hundred and 10.
Negative, Infrared and Reverse, all carried by a hearse.
What about 120, honey?
None to be had for any money.

You might want to study coatin glass, just to try to save your a**.
Jus remember that glass dont bend when your try to fit it in your M.

Now heres something you can be sure a - Instax smacks your Pentax, your Nikon, your Canon and so on and so on.




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Old 02-28-2019   #109
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Hm, I think I've Zenit in the tea leaves. Some of you are FED up. I don't want to Kosmo trouble. If you guys want me to stop, Soviet.


Kiev me a break!


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Old 02-28-2019   #110
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Kiev me a break!

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A break? But it looks like there's still life in this thread!
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Old 03-01-2019   #111
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I sensor disturbance in the farce.
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Old 03-01-2019   #112
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Yeah, I know. Sad thing watching people that don't know when to stop...

Even sadder when watching something you enjoy immensely (Fuji film) being stopped.
brbo, I apologize if I offended you, but you don't have to Gitzo mad. Isn't it bad enough that Fujifilm is discontinuing films we love? We're just trying to have a little fun here before they turn out the Leitz.
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Old 03-01-2019   #113
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I sensor disturbance in the farce.
Peter, have you joined the Dark Slide???
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Old 03-01-2019   #114
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I Rollei Leica light-ness in this thread. It’s good to get a wide view sometimes. Archery may be the Noblex of sports, but punning is Argus to do.
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Old 03-01-2019   #115
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I Rollei Leica light-ness in this thread. Itís good to get a wide view sometimes. Archery may be the Noblex of sports, but punning is Argus to do.
Yes, it's always good to XPAN your Horizon.
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Old 03-03-2019   #116
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Fujifilm is a huge company, imaging (film and digital) account for 16% of this revenue. Of this, 33% is digital (5% of total) and film is the remaining 67% (11% of the total). Most of that film is instax (and instax cameras), it doesn’t leave much space for traditional film. In fact they don’t even mention film in their financial documents. I doubt they’ve made any for ages, and are just increasing the price as it runs out. Based on all that, they’re not a viable solution for traditional film.

https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/...nce/index.html
https://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/...2018q4_001.pdf
The last estimate that was possible to make (based on Fuji figures from 2011 and 2016) indicated that traditional colour film represented 8% of Imaging Solutions revenue or less than 1% of total company revenue - approximately 230 million USD. It is probably much less now, and based on Kodak's figures for traditional film, the actual profit after investment, maintenance, salaries, employee benefits, taxes etc. is up to 10x lower. I don't believe they have stopped producing film as this would put a significant number of employees out of work, but that they have been overproducing film for years on their existing machines. Kodak now runs a much smaller line, similar to the size that was used for testing and research purposes I believe.

They obviously intend to retire the film products soon - their current management plan runs until 2021 and film is no longer listed as a principal product. Within this same time, they want to increase return-on-equity (to shareholders) of new thin-film products by at least 30%. I'd guess that until 2019-2021 is enough time to retrain employees, and retire the old machinery while coordinating the re-fitout of the old factories to produce new products. And, if the retirement of Pack Film and Fuji Frontier scanners is anything to go by, they will simply have the old machines recycled for scrap-metal rather than selling them to anyone else.

Since the corporate restructure, I wouldn't be surprised if the Color Film division actually no longer exists as an entity.
$230m is close to Kodak's 2016 figures for Consumer and Film, however their Consumer and Film segment is comprised of three lines of business: Industrial Film and Chemicals, Motion Picture and Consumer Products (which includes Consumer Inkjet Solutions). After expenses and tax, earnings was only $26m... and their photographic film is actually organised under the Industrial Film and Chemicals division. For an idea, the amount of Motion Picture Film ordered that year was only worth $3m, and another $2m in 2017. Just due the prior year (2016-2015), photographic film revenue dropped $20m largely due to declining demand for film products. Therefore we can estimate that Fujifilm's total Color Film revenue now must be somewhere around the $50-100m mark annually.
Keep in mind that raw material prices for film production (and even crude oil for imports/exports) are mostly cheaper than what they were 5 years ago, except gelatine, which I could not find market rates for, but there was a global undersupply several years ago due to widening applications\demand. The main cost increases associated with film are due to lowering the volume of production. Therefore, if Fuji is only again reducing output, then that would explain how they are able to competitively price their film lower or equal to Kodak.

The people suggesting that Fujifilm have not manufactured film in years and are simply pulling from cold-storage have not done any research, and fail to recognise the long expiry dates on their current film and the reality of the market that despite the low profitability, it is still profitable for them - probably much more so than Kodak whom expends funds on research and development of new products and intense marketing and services support for the motion picture film and consumer customers, and whom often has to organise revenue holistically to support other segments of their business. It costs Fujifilm very little to continue producing film, independently to the rest of their business - until you consider their view that the cost comes in unused potential equity (as opposed to real expenditure).
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Old 03-03-2019   #117
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I wonder if the collapse of the consumer film market was anticipated in Fujifilm's 500 year company plan?

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Old 03-03-2019   #118
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It's basic economics.

Film usage is actually on the rise. Film is in limited production with limited supply. So what happens when demand outpaces supply? Prices go up! The same thing is happening with film cameras.

Fujifilmís "popular" Instax instant films are not affected because they can't give it away!
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Old 03-03-2019   #119
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It's basic economics. Film usage is actually on the rise. Film is in limited production with limited supply. So what happens when demand outpaces supply? Prices go up! The same thing is happening with film cameras.
So it has nothing to do with the cost of production and the loss of economies of scale? Somehow I doubt that Fuji's recent 30% price increase arises from scarcity of supply. You can order Fuji film all day, every day from B&H. And B&H often runs specials on short dated inventory of Fuji film they haven't been able to sell.
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Old 03-03-2019   #120
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It's basic economics.

Film usage is actually on the rise. Film is in limited production with limited supply. So what happens when demand outpaces supply? Prices go up! The same thing is happening with film cameras.

Fujifilmís "popular" Instax instant films are not affected because they can't give it away!
Wrong. The facts are clearly against what you suggest.

Fujifilm discontinues films. That shows there is no demand.

Prices rise because they are trying to squeeze the last drops of revenue from this ending source (to them, since they are exiting film).
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