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View Poll Results: Bargain 24mm Nikkors -- BUT: Heavily Used!
Nikkor 24mm 1:2 5 25.00%
OR Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8 9 45.00%
none! 2 10.00%
both ^^ 4 20.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Nikkor 24mm 1:2 OR Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8 -- BUT: Heavily Used!
Old 10-13-2018   #1
Sumarongi
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Question Nikkor 24mm 1:2 OR Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8 -- BUT: Heavily Used!

Nikkor 24mm 1:2 OR Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8 -- BUT: Heavily Used!

I've been offered these two lenses, for a song presumably, but I'm a bit reluctant since both are heavily used:

Nikkor 24mm 1:2

906_1998377694.jpg
906_509597459.jpg

Nikkor 24mm 1:2.8

589_-59332189.jpg


What is your recommendation?

edit: and why, if your answer is *none*?

edit2: I'm not a Nikon shooter, especially I'm not a Nikon-digital shooter. (If I would be a real left-handed person, I guess Nikon would be my natural choice; but I'm predominantly right-handed, and I prefer the rotational direction of the Leica-Minolta-Canon controls )

So far the only one in my family shooting Nikon film SLR is my mother in law, and her F2 is permanently armed with a Nikkor 85mm f/2.0 that I once found secondhand and gave her as a present

BUT: I'm planning to give my daughter for her 10th birthday a Nikon FM10, and a very small selection of lenses, two or three. She's predominantly left-handed, and so I guess the rotational direction of Nikkors is perfect for her
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Old 10-13-2018   #2
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Why *none*, dear Deardorff38?
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Old 10-13-2018   #3
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have you ckecked here? http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_wide.html. Looks lika an easy decision at least for him (2.8)

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Old 10-13-2018   #4
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If they are cheap, get both. I got a Nikkor 28 f/2.8 AIS which is beaten to death and it still shoots great pictures.

Here is my lens and some pics taken with it.

http://pansfilmcameras.blogspot.com/...ched-lens.html
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Old 10-13-2018   #5
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I've got two versions, non-AI and AI. I use them on my A7ii, mostly shooting cars. Both are sharp as a tack when I focus them correctly. I'm leaning more towards the AI since it does weigh a tad less than the older lens. Both are 2.8's.
I like them because they allow me to get pictures in close circumstances and don't have a lot of distortion in the shots, even being close.
I bought the non-AI here on this forum and the latest AI purchase was off the GW auction site. I got lucky both times as the glass is nice on both of them.
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Old 10-13-2018   #6
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Ill second the get both see which one you prefer then sell the other on or if its really cheap and they show different advantages keep both. It's always worth having lenses of the same FL that offer a difference be it rendering colour shift or weight if you like the output of each.
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Old 10-13-2018   #7
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I love my Nikon F but use it so seldom, I have no need to add other lenses.... I'd be happy with the 2.8... used one for years
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Old 10-13-2018   #8
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The original 24 2.8 introduced in the late 1960s' was the first to use the floating element to reduce distortion at close distances. If its' a bargain, get the 2.8. Need to exercise the shutter on the F a few times a year anyway.
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Old 10-13-2018   #9
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Worn well = good lens when that old.

Get both. Keep one or two.

Neither will have good corners on FX digital until 5.6 to 8. Film is fine Both will work on DX digital.
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Old 10-13-2018   #10
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I would wager the 2.8 will outperform the 2 but if they're both cheap get both.

I wouldn't worry so much about the well used status. With Nikkor a lot of times the wear just means it is a good performer copy that was used often.
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Old 10-13-2018   #11
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I prefer the f2.8, it does have a vignetted look sometimes, but is overall a great lens.

The f2 gives a more even looking exposure in the corners, but I find it very difficult to focus properly.
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Old 10-13-2018   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
I would wager the 2.8 will outperform the 2 but if they're both cheap get both.

I wouldn't worry so much about the well used status. With Nikkor a lot of times the wear just means it is a good performer copy that was used often.


While usually I agree that slower lenses tend to perform better I am not so sure this is always the case.

For example the 28mm f2 Nikkor is better than all versions of the 28mm f2.8 except the AIS one which is regarded as being a significant improvement on earlier models.

I do not know if this is so with the 24mm however as I only have an early pre ai (AI converted) f2.8 version. Which I have no complaints about. But I cannot make the comparison. I simply mention it because sometimes what one expects is not what one finds (and I agree that your assumption about the relative merits of he two would normally be the right one).

EDIT: I just found this thread which seems to suggest you are right in that the f2.8 looks like the better performing 24mm

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...mm-f2-8.81024/
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Old 10-13-2018   #13
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It's pretty common knowledge Peter.

BTW the older 24/2.8 is a highly regarded street lens in some circles.

The 28s are different. The 2 is great the 2.8 is sublime and even the slow 3.5 punches very hard. The 2.8 still available brand new I believe.

I've never shot the 28/1.4 afd and it is probably the only thing af that would interest me.
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Old 10-13-2018   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
It's pretty common knowledge Peter.

BTW the older 24/2.8 is a highly regarded street lens in some circles.

The 28s are different. The 2 is great the 2.8 is sublime and even the slow 3.5 punches very hard. The 2.8 still available brand new I believe.

I've never shot the 28/1.4 afd and it is probably the only thing af that would interest me.
Apparently not common knowledge to me....

But then again what I don't know would confound Google's ability to cope with the volume.
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Old 10-13-2018   #15
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The 24/2 will bring more coin because people will think speed will make them better but the 2.8 is the gem. 24 is a difficult focal length to build and with fast ones you have to make compromises. Didn't work out with the 24.
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Old 10-13-2018   #16
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I already had the AI'ed Nikkor-H 2.8cm f/3.5 so I went with the wider AI-S 20 f/2.8 which works for me... shooting with the Nikon F3P body.
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Old 10-13-2018   #17
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I have a pre-ai 2.8 and an unrepairable 2.0 ais that's been in a drawer for four years. The 2.8 produces great results; as I remember, the 2.0 did as well. The older, more flare-prone lenses give me the contrast I like for wet printing, so I probably won't replace the 2.0.
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Old 10-13-2018   #18
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——I've added some more informative things in the first post that I've forgotten to mention ——

Thank yor all for your statements!
-- So far I guess I should buy both
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Old 10-13-2018   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
——I've added some more informative things in the first post that I've forgotten to mention ——

Thank yor all for your statements!
-- So far I guess I should buy both
With that many Nikon blocks amongst the family the answer is indeed get both...yeah they made a million but they aren't losing value bro

A FM10 with a pancake fast fifty would be deluxe. The 35/2 is powerful
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Old 10-14-2018   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
If they are cheap, get both. I got a Nikkor 28 f/2.8 AIS which is beaten to death and it still shoots great pictures.

Here is my lens and some pics taken with it.

http://pansfilmcameras.blogspot.com/...ched-lens.html
Thank you
I was always thinking that "a scratched lens will produce useless pictures"-story is a myth, probably invented by the "protection UV filter" industry and their shills

Anyways, *I* like pictures that look a bit *dreamy* very much (yes, landscape wide angle pictures too), so if there is such an effect -- whether from the lens formula itself, or the scratches -- *I* wouldn't dislike it
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Old 10-14-2018   #21
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I've had both. I kept the 24/2.8 and sold the 24/2. The 24/2.8 is the better performer. If you don't need f/2, I would skip that one and get the 2.8.
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Old 10-14-2018   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
With that many Nikon blocks amongst the family the answer is indeed get both...yeah they made a million but they aren't losing value bro
What are Nikon *blocks*?

But yes, now I realise an additional benefit: When my children visit their grandma, at least the daughter in question can swap lenses with grandma!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
A FM10 with a pancake fast fifty would be deluxe. The 35/2 is powerful
Yes, I know the FM10 is not the most robust, so I'll have a look that I find matching light-weight lenses
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Old 10-14-2018   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
(...)

Anyways, *I* like pictures that look a bit *dreamy* very much (yes, landscape wide angle pictures too), so if there is such an effect -- whether from the lens formula itself, or the scratches -- *I* wouldn't dislike it
Wide open 24/2.0 is bit dreamy even brand new, quite an unique look.
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Old 10-14-2018   #24
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I have a 28/2, which is about the size of the 24/2, and a 24/2.8. I don't often have a strong focal length preference, but marginally prefer 24, and the lens that gets the most used is the 24 because it is so much smaller to carry. I usually don't miss the extra stop. I've thought about getting a 24/2, but then don't, because I doubt I would want to carry it around.

If size really is no issue, which it definitely is for me, I'd buy the 24/2.
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Old 10-14-2018   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
Thank you
I was always thinking that "a scratched lens will produce useless pictures"-story is a myth, probably invented by the "protection UV filter" industry and their shills
You're welcome. Here is another one taken with the same lens. In real life (that is not shooting newspapers on walls) the lens remains very sharp.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VpXa5CMP5...s/s1600/28.jpg
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Old 10-14-2018   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contarama View Post
The 24/2 will bring more coin because people will think speed will make them better but the 2.8 is the gem. 24 is a difficult focal length to build and with fast ones you have to make compromises. Didn't work out with the 24.
That's certainly true, a 24mm faster than say f/4 is a huge challenge; even Leitz were shying away from making a 24mm SLR lens until 1974, and in fact their 24mm f/2.8 Elmarit-R is: a Minolta Rokkor in a 420 g /0.93 lb guise
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Old 10-14-2018   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
You're welcome. Here is another one taken with the same lens. In real life (that is not shooting newspapers on walls) the lens remains very sharp.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VpXa5CMP5...s/s1600/28.jpg
Wonderful picture
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Old 10-14-2018   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdarnton View Post
I have a 28/2, which is about the size of the 24/2, and a 24/2.8. I don't often have a strong focal length preference, but marginally prefer 24, and the lens that gets the most used is the 24 because it is so much smaller to carry. I usually don't miss the extra stop. I've thought about getting a 24/2, but then don't, because I doubt I would want to carry it around.

If size really is no issue, which it definitely is for me, I'd buy the 24/2.
Thank you.

Apparently, the difference isn't that huge:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...or/24mmf28.htm says:
Specifications:
Focal length/Aperture: 24mm f/2.8
Lens construction: 9 elements in 9 groups
Picture angle: 84°; Diaphragm: Automatic
Maximum Reproduction ratio: 1:8.8
Aperture scale: f/2.8 - f/22 on both standard and aperture-direct-readout scales
Exposure measurement: Via full aperture method with Ai cameras; via stop-down method with non-Ai cameras.
Distance scale: Graduated in meters and feet from 0.3m (1 ft.) to infinity (OO)
Weight: approx. 250g; Dimensions: 63 mm dia. x 57mm long (overall). 46mm extension from lens flange

and

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...kor/24mmf2.htm says:
Specifications:
Focal length/Aperture: 24mm f/2.0
Lens construction: 11 elements in 10 groups
Picture angle: 84°; Diaphragm: Automatic
Aperture scale: f/2 - f/22 on both standard and aperture-direct-readout scales
Exposure measurement: Via full aperture method with Ai cameras; via stop-down method with non-Ai cameras.
Distance scale: Graduated in meters and feet from 0.3m (1ft.) to infinity (OO)
Weight: approx. 300g; Dimensions: 63mm dia. x 63mm long (overall); 51.5mm extension from lens flange
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Old 10-14-2018   #29
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Nikkor 24/2.8

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/rff...8663.SEQ.0.jpg

I have very few Nikkor SLR lenses, and the 24/2.8 was carefully chosen It is an overall superb lens.
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Old 10-14-2018   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
Nikkor 24/2.8

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/rff...8663.SEQ.0.jpg

I have very few Nikkor SLR lenses, and the 24/2.8 was carefully chosen It is an overall superb lens.
Great picture!

I actually have zero Nikon SLR lenses (I believe?*), just by chance I already have bought several Nikon items for my mother in law. Apparently I had something like *green thumbs* each time

[*edit: not entirely true. I have a 15mm Voigtländer in Nikon F mount! Using it with adapter on a Bessa L -- see https://www.cameraquest.com/VCSL1215.htm]
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Old 10-14-2018   #31
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For her first camera, go light and small. The FM10 with a 50 1.8 would be a great start. If she’s taking it with her all the time, buy one of the 24s and keep it in reserve for when she wants more. Or buy both and give one to your mother in-law.
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Old 10-14-2018   #32
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madNbad has encapsulated my sentiments.
You're thinking as an adult, not as a 10 year old. 10 year olds want things easier, and not be boggled with complexity.

I started my photography hobby with a Kodak Instamatic X-15.
No exposure setting, no focusing. The only decision was whether to stick a magicube flash on or not. Then, framing and the moment of exposure was the major decision. Keep things easy and fun for kids.

Now that 126 has gone into film format heaven, for my own 8 year old son (he's now 10), I bought a Carena Computer camera. This was offered by an RFF member from Lithuania. The purchase price was a lofty $20, with shipping added. It is a compact 35mm RF camera, with auto-exposure. So, now he has some decisions to make, along with remembering to focus. The main challenge is for him to remember to keep the camera level!

When I became a teenager, I moved up to a Canon FX with 58mm f/1.2 FL lens. That was way heavier. Exposure setting and focusing weren't difficult for me. However, the camera had mechanical issues which made using it not much fun. Complexity is good only for adults.

If you really intend to give your daughter the FM10, then just get the 50mm f/1.8 lens and let her have fun. Include some type of small auto-thyristor flash so she can take pictures indoors too. Primarily you want her to feel that photography is fun. The gratification of seeing your pictures return from the developing lab is fun too.
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Old 10-14-2018   #33
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I should say that I voted "none" for the reasons above. Also, such a wide angle lens as 24mm is hard for most people to use effectively. This is especially true of beginners. When she is more familiar with perspective being a function of distance, framing, and foreground vs mid-ground vs background distances, then you may want to give her a wide angle lens. But, let her get familiar with photography using the 50mm lens first.
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Old 10-14-2018   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madNbad View Post
For her first camera, go light and small. The FM10 with a 50 1.8 would be a great start. If she’s taking it with her all the time, buy one of the 24s and keep it in reserve for when she wants more. Or buy both and give one to your mother in-law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
I should say that I voted "none" for the reasons above. Also, such a wide angle lens as 24mm is hard for most people to use effectively. This is especially true of beginners. When she is more familiar with perspective being a function of distance, framing, and foreground vs mid-ground vs background distances, then you may want to give her a wide angle lens. But, let her get familiar with photography using the 50mm lens first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Lai View Post
madNbad has encapsulated my sentiments.
You're thinking as an adult, not as a 10 year old. 10 year olds want things easier, and not be boggled with complexity.

I started my photography hobby with a Kodak Intamatic X-15.
No exposure setting, no focusing. The only decision was whether to stick a magicube flash on or not. Then, framing and the moment of exposure was the major decision. Keep things easy and fun for kids.

Now that 126 has gone into film format heaven, for my own 8 year old son (he's now 10), I bought a Carena Computer camera. This was offered by an RFF member from Lithuania. The purchase price was a lofty $20, with shipping added. It is a compact 35mm RF camera, with auto-exposure. So, now he has some decisions to make, along with remembering to focus. The main challenge is for him to remember to keep the camera level!

When I became a teenager, I moved up to a Canon FX with 58mm f/1.2 FL lens. That was way heavier. Exposure setting and focusing weren't difficult for me. However, the camera had mechanical issues which made using it not much fun. Complexity is good only for adults.

If you really intend to give your daughter the FM10, then just get the 50mm f/1.8 lens and let her have fun. Include some type of small auto-thyristor flash so she can take pictures indoors too. Primarily you want her to feel that photography is fun. The gratification of seeing your pictures return from the developing lab is fun too.
Thank you, madNbad and Robert Lai.

@madNbad: Well, there's at least a third possibility: I buy both and take one and see whether it works w/ adapter on one of my Barnacks, Russians or M-cameras

@Robert: I very much appreciate what you have written, and I guess it is certainly correct what you recommend when we have to do with a more or less *typical* 10 years old

However, my daughter: she's a *very* untypical soon 10 year old girl. She's to an extent a tomboy (is that word still pc? ), a Tae Kwon Do fighter, and she loves complexity. A puzzle with less than 1000 pieces? No interest! Re photography: Just a couple of days ago, when she discovered my recently bought Retina IIIc, she was immediately figuring out how to open it and how the controls work...

Hence, a quite modern film SLR having all the classic controls will certainly not overstrain her, I think.

But I'll keep in mind that I have to find a 50mm!
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Old 10-14-2018   #35
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Originally Posted by Sumarongi View Post
Thank you, madNbad and Robert Lai.

@madNbad: Well, there's at least a third possibility: I buy both and take one and see whether it works w/ adapter on one of my Barnacks, Russians or M-cameras

@Robert: I very much appreciate what you have written, and I guess it is certainly correct what you recommend when we have to do with a more or less *typical* 10 years old

However, my daughter: she's a *very* untypical soon 10 year old girl. She's to an extent a tomboy (is that word still pc? ), a Tae Kwon Do fighter, and she loves complexity. A puzzle with less than 1000 pieces? No interest! Re photography: Just a couple of days ago, when she discovered my recently bought Retina IIIc, she was immediately figuring out how to open it and how the controls work...

Hence, a quite modern film SLR having all the classic controls will certainly not overstrain her, I think.

But I'll keep in mind that I have to find a 50mm!
I personally think, and certainly thought when I was a teenager, that 50 is difficult, 35-40 or even short tele is easier to compose with for a beginner I think. With a 50, you have to pay attention to fore- and background, wider or shorter, and ignoring one of the two becomes possible more often.
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Old 10-14-2018   #36
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If she's that motivated, get the 24 of your choice, put it on a FM10 and let her use it till she asks for another lens.
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Old 10-14-2018   #37
semi-ambivalent
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I discount the 'get both if they're cheap' because you haven't given a price. Neither of those lenses has typical cleaning marks; those are small scale gouges. I've seen a lot of lenses that looked way worse than those but the glass was pristine because they had filters on all the time or the users cared for the part that needed caring for-the glass. lensrentals has done tests on broken front elements and, yes, they can take a decent picture. But you don't buy a 24mm 2.8 Nikkor for "decent" pictures. I'd stay away from these; there's less there than meets the eye, and there's lots of these online used in much better shape where it counts. If you can't pass it up low ball the seller and see what happens. And good luck.
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Old 10-14-2018   #38
Livesteamer
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These are common. I would wait for one with clean glass. A clean rear element is important, marks on the front glass seem to have less effect. The 24mm f2.8 Nikkor is one of my favorite lens's.
Joe
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Old 10-14-2018   #39
phrons
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Just because it's for a younger person.

28mm is the same as almost all camera phones.

If she is familiar with that angle of view, maybe it's something to consider.

All those lenses are great, and I think you are doing a wonderful thing. You can't go wrong either way. Good luck.
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Old 10-15-2018   #40
Sumarongi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phrons View Post
Just because it's for a younger person.

28mm is the same as almost all camera phones.

If she is familiar with that angle of view, maybe it's something to consider.

All those lenses are great, and I think you are doing a wonderful thing. You can't go wrong either way. Good luck.
Thank you
My daughter in question doesn't have a smartphone (or any mobile) so far, but she once in a while uses her older sister's, mother's, grandma's -- so she's aware of taking pictures without any controls, and the wide angle too. (I'd say, my camera plan has to an extent to do with my concept that too many electronic devices aren't that good for children, particularly for their still growing eyes.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Livesteamer View Post
These are common. I would wait for one with clean glass. A clean rear element is important, marks on the front glass seem to have less effect. The 24mm f2.8 Nikkor is one of my favorite lens's.
Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by semi-ambivalent View Post
I discount the 'get both if they're cheap' because you haven't given a price.
Less than USD$ 60, about EUR 50 for both together

Quote:
Originally Posted by semi-ambivalent View Post
Neither of those lenses has typical cleaning marks; those are small scale gouges. I've seen a lot of lenses that looked way worse than those but the glass was pristine because they had filters on all the time or the users cared for the part that needed caring for-the glass. lensrentals has done tests on broken front elements and, yes, they can take a decent picture. But you don't buy a 24mm 2.8 Nikkor for "decent" pictures. I'd stay away from these; there's less there than meets the eye, and there's lots of these online used in much better shape where it counts. If you can't pass it up low ball the seller and see what happens. And good luck.
Thank you, Livesteamer and semi-ambivalent
Well, I have confidence in my *green thumbs* regarding antiques and other second hand items

Quote:
Originally Posted by madNbad View Post
If she's that motivated, get the 24 of your choice, put it on a FM10 and let her use it till she asks for another lens.
Actually, that's also an interesting idea.
Wait, I have some Tamron Adaptall-2 lenses, so there's some more choice; haven't I recently written that my brain is a sieve?

(Being a parent of a quiver full means serious lack of night sleep, and that may cause brain-sievishness -- Alas, I didn't know that previously since I was a single child )
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