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Old 08-29-2018   #41
FujiLove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
There is no such thing as 'analog' photography, that's why it's difficult to save. There are film and digital capture mediums, two different mediums for capturing light and doing photography.
Actually, there's a whole world of photography that uses neither film or digital capture media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_photography
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Old 08-29-2018   #42
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
Are there more new cameras than the F6, MA/MP, and Lomo?
Some more cameras, manufacturers in MF, LF, pinhole and disposable.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/brows...h=film+cameras
Also https://intrepidcamera.co.uk/

Here they listed more film cameras available for production per order in quantities.
Not just disposable ones.
https://www.made-in-china.com/Consum...lm-Camera.html
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Old 08-29-2018   #43
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Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
Actually, there's a whole world of photography that uses neither film or digital capture media.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_photography
Really? The linked article uses the analogue/digital split. Which realms of photography are neither film (or at least silver halide) or digital?

Cheers,

R.
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Old 08-29-2018   #44
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Two words.

affordable film
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Old 08-29-2018   #45
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Here they listed more film cameras available for production per order in quantities.
Not just disposable ones.
https://www.made-in-china.com/Consum...lm-Camera.html
Thanks for that link, very interesting!
Nice to know that even the Seagull TLR and Seagull Minolta X-370 copy are still being made.
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Old 08-29-2018   #46
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Originally Posted by FalseDigital View Post
Two words.

affordable film
Which is given: If you make a proper economic calculation and consider real inflation, than processing and photo chemistry are significantly cheaper than 25-30 years ago in the film boom era.
And also lots of films are cheaper compared to that time.
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Old 08-30-2018   #47
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If there is enough demand such that camera manufactures can make a profit by making & selling brand new film cameras, they'll do it. Otherwise, *film* photography will die. It's just a matter of time.
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Old 08-30-2018   #48
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Originally Posted by David Hughes View Post
It would make a lot of sense to buy a lot of old cameras; all the same make and model. Strip them down and test and measure as you go and then start reassembling the best bits to make a few "as new" ones. There was a firm or two that did it with classic cars, proper Jaguars and the Morris minor/1000 come to mind...
That's a really good idea, I like it.

Reminds me of the company that bought the remaining parts of the Back To The Future DeLorean DMC-12, and you can have a new old stock car built for you, right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lrIqGphJx8
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Old 08-30-2018   #49
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Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Interesting it seems that "analogue" photography is considered by many to be industrial made film photography only. Denise Ross has instructions on her website the lightfarm on how to make film yourself http://thelightfarm.com/
Analogue photography unlike digital is in fact not dependent on manufacturers as it can be made at home without too much difficulty.

Analogue photography doesn't need to be saved as it is very much alive and far from dead.

Home made film is limited to ridiculously low ISO values. No one except a fringe element is going to care about that.


Film is not in any way secure for a long term future. Fujifilm is exiting and Kodak is in very serious financial trouble (today).



I would hate to predict what the situation will be like a short 10 years from now.
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Old 08-30-2018   #50
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
. . . I would hate to predict what the situation will be like a short 10 years from now.
Dear Ted,

No one but a fool would. But I suspect it would be even more foolish to predict the imminent disappearance of film.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 08-30-2018   #51
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I've said it before and I'll say it again... It completely baffles me why the two big film companies, that also had very capable digital sensor technology, did not offer a line of film scanners (consumer to semi-pro to pro) to support film sales. I imagine a simple consumer-level 35mm scanner with easy to use software could be made to sell for well under $500, maybe under $300. Heck, sell at cost, it's worth the strategic value. Instead, they leave it to market forces and end up losing.
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Old 08-30-2018   #52
Bill Clark
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What about this scanner:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...AQfD_BwE&smp=y

Maybe it’s just me but why would some one make photos with a film camera then for the process stage get it developed, maybe scanned at the same time, or develop it yourself then scan it? To me it’s very time consuming. Why not capture with a good quality digital camera and save the time, work and effort if all you’re going to do is scan your film! My full frame Canon digital cameras makes pretty nice photographs.

For my business, when digital came of age, which for me was 2004, it was a real opportunity for me to give better photographs for my clients.
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Old 08-30-2018   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Home made film is limited to ridiculously low ISO values. No one except a fringe element is going to care about that.

Film is not analogue photography only a part of it and the original questions wasn't how to safe film but how to save analogue photography of which film is part but so is the calotype, dryplate, wetplate, daguerreotype, etc.... Furthermore you can make ISO 400 emulsions at home it's just a lot more complicated than low ISO emulsions an as long as there is a single analogue photography practitioner the medium is alive
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Old 08-30-2018   #54
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Buy and use film? I am astonished that Instax film is so profitable. Still, George Eastman was successful with a business model of selling cheap cameras to create a market for film. It still works a 150 years later in the "digital era".

yours
FPJ

Last edited by FPjohn : 08-30-2018 at 04:30. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-30-2018   #55
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Originally Posted by philosli View Post
If there is enough demand such that camera manufactures can make a profit by making & selling brand new film cameras, they'll do it. Otherwise, *film* photography will die. It's just a matter of time.
There is a huge (over)supply of used film cameras on the market. Just look at the published CIPA numbers: From 2000 - 2007 alone more than 85 million (!!) film cameras have been sold. There are so much film cameras on the market that it will last for decades to come. And there are already new repair companies exploring the business model we have established already for decades in the classic car and air plane scene: Keeping items running for an unlimited time.
Nevertheless we will see a similar pattern as we've already seen with mechanical watches and turntables: Lots of new models, partly from new and innovative manufacturers (we have first signs of it with Chamonix, Intrepid, Reflex, Ponf).
Digital camera sales are on a all-time low and further decreasing. In the mid term, camera manufacturers will look for further attractive niches. Film cameras will be one of them.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #56
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Quote:
Digital camera sales are on a all-time low
Are you including smart phones and tablet computers with your calculations?
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Old 08-30-2018   #57
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Film is not in any way secure for a long term future. Fujifilm is exiting and Kodak is in very serious financial trouble (today).
Your usual FUD postings. You act like a robot. Boring, nothing else. Neither is Fujifilm exiting (you know that they are by far the biggest film manufacturer with booming instax sales and just recently introduced new 3-packs for C200 and X-Tra 400), nor is there any evidence that Kodak is going away from film production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
I would hate to predict what the situation will be like a short 10 years from now.
People like you are saying film is dying for 15 years now. But the opposite has happened: With Instax a film product is a mass market product again, even much better selling than mirrorless digital cameras. There are even new film manufacturers on the market like Adox and Film Ferrania (something what the doom and gloom prayers always have declared to be absolutely impossible). There are new films on the market, lots of new labs, film shops and used film camera shops.
The situation now is much much better than most thought ten years ago it would be!
And in ten years from now the situation will even be significantly better for film users than today.
About how much should we bet, 1,000$, 10,000$?
No problem for me to go in for 10,000$. Very easy earned money . Let's meet here again in 10 years. And don't forget to bring the 10,000 bucks .

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #58
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Originally Posted by Bill Clark View Post
Are you including smart phones and tablet computers with your calculations?
No. Digital cameras from the camera manufacturers:
http://cipa.jp/stats/documents/e/d-201806_e.pdf

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #59
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Originally Posted by samuelphoto View Post
I've said it before and I'll say it again... It completely baffles me why the two big film companies, that also had very capable digital sensor technology, did not offer a line of film scanners (consumer to semi-pro to pro) to support film sales. I imagine a simple consumer-level 35mm scanner with easy to use software could be made to sell for well under $500, maybe under $300. Heck, sell at cost, it's worth the strategic value. Instead, they leave it to market forces and end up losing.
1. There are prof. scanners for pro-labs by Noritsu and Fujifilm. You can buy them.
2. For consumers in the 300$ to 500$ price range you can also buy new scanners from Reflecta and Plustek.
So it isn't the case that no one would be serving these markets.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #60
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
There is a huge (over)supply of used film cameras on the market. Just look at the published CIPA numbers: From 2000 - 2007 alone more than 85 million (!!) film cameras have been sold. There are so much film cameras on the market that it will last for decades to come. And there are already new repair companies exploring the business model we have established already for decades in the classic car and air plane scene: Keeping items running for an unlimited time.
Nevertheless we will see a similar pattern as we've already seen with mechanical watches and turntables: Lots of new models, partly from new and innovative manufacturers (we have first signs of it with Chamonix, Intrepid, Reflex, Ponf).
Digital camera sales are on a all-time low and further decreasing. In the mid term, camera manufacturers will look for further attractive niches. Film cameras will be one of them.

Cheers, Jan
Digital camera sales shrink because people no longer need cameras of any media, not they suddenly realized how good silver halide smells compared to a SD card. Your statements contradict themselves. There're so many film cameras around, yet it is still a niche - how could it be profitable then to support a major camera manufacturer, should they go in the way of Kodak? Imagine how many F6s should Nikon sell in order to redeem itself, if they did not opt for a new venture, which is the new mirrorless business? How many F6s are out there? How many do people really need?
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Old 08-30-2018   #61
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I don't think any of the current niches will become mainstream enough to support a major camera manufacturer, who would rather invest into new ventures.
People said the same about turntables when the CD became mainstream. What happened instead? Look at the turntable market now: New manufacturers, established manufacturers bringing new models to the market, and so much different models that most consumers have a problem to choose one....

People said the same about instant cameras: Now Fujifilm is producing more than 7 million units a year. That is almost double of what all mirrorless camera manufacturers are producing together.

Look at Cosina Voigtländer: They saw a market gap and filled it with the Voigtländer Bessa III. If someone would have told you in summer 2008 (short before the introduction of that camera) that a Japanese camera manufacturer would introduce a new folding (!) camera some weeks later: What would you have told him? That he is an idiot? That he is crazy? That he is drunk....?

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #62
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Look at Cosina Voigtländer: They saw a market gap and filled it with the Voigtländer Bessa III. If someone would have told you in summer 2008 (short before the introduction of that camera) that a Japanese camera manufacturer would introduce a new folding (!) camera some weeks later: What would you have told him? That he is an idiot? That he is crazy? That he is drunk....

Isn't that camera discontinued?
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Old 08-30-2018   #63
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Isn't that camera discontinued?
Yes.
Because the small market gap was filled by that camera over the years.
I've mentioned it to demonstrate how markets work: If there are market gaps, even very small ones, and a demand, then there is also a good chance that new, unconventional and completely unexpected (by the majority) niche products are produced.

I well remember the discussion in the early 00 years. "There will be no F6, the F5 will be the last prof. film Nikon. Film is dead".
In 2004 Nikon introduced the F6, and now, 14 years later, it is still in production. No one of the "experts" has predicted that.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #64
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
People said the same about turntables when the CD became mainstream. What happened instead? Look at the turntable market now: New manufacturers, established manufacturers bringing new models to the market, and so much different models that most consumers have a problem to choose one....

People said the same about instant cameras: Now Fujifilm is producing more than 7 million units a year. That is almost double of what all mirrorless camera manufacturers are producing together.

Look at Cosina Voigtländer: They saw a market gap and filled it with the Voigtländer Bessa III. If someone would have told you in summer 2008 (short before the introduction of that camera) that a Japanese camera manufacturer would introduce a new folding (!) camera some weeks later: What would you have told him? That he is an idiot? That he is crazy? That he is drunk....?

Cheers, Jan
I know the turntables are commonly brought up for this kind of topic. Yes, they are luxury items like film cameras: you don't need black vinyl records to enjoy music just like it's no longer mandatory to use film to take photographs anymore. The main difference here is, unlike cameras, the turntables are much simpler to design and produce and are not all that expensive. There are $99 ones for beginners. $300 gets you a pretty decent one, and you may never need to venture further. How many of us could settle for a new $300 film camera? How much does a new FM10 cost? How does it compare to the millions of existing film cameras you just mentioned, price to performance wise? How much would us die-hard film shooters be willing to shell out for a new FM2 level camera? How many of us did buy a F6 new after all?

Why are the moderately priced Cosina Bessas discontinued, with film consumption seemingly on the rise? Is Mr. Kobayashi, the man behind the renaissance, lacking passion or short sighted? (Personally I'd be more than happy to see their production resumed. But will they?)

The GF670/Bessa III meanwhile, being expensive but unique, had seen very limited production, which stopped in 2014. The GF670W/Bessa 667 Wide variant lasted even shorter for only 4 years. A friend at local Fujifilm told me there were only a/an (unverified) total of 3,000 GF670W produced in one single batch; the model is discontinued as soon as the original and only stock drained. You can almost figure the annual sales revenue out - and that's the true demand figure among the 7 billion people on the planet for this type of camera. It's a good gesture that the cameras did make it; but would that be sufficient to support big companies like any of the good old camera manufacturers we know of?

Niches are niches. Very few of them could ever become mainstream, whatever level of former glory it once enjoyed. It is always possible for a manufacturer or an individual, now powered by flexible capital-raising means like crowdfunding, to release a limited production, high priced, high quality new camera. But it will never be successful on a larger scale. People would like to shoot film cameras in 2018 partly out of pure aesthetic instead of practical reasons, partly because the once so expensive pro gears had became affordable in the past decades. If the price were to inflate back to a certain point, most would just quit since not everyone - or most of us just don't - have disposable incomes. Aesthetics alone is never the main driving force behind mass-market successes, simply because beauty had never been mandatory in our trivia-filled daily life.

I'm not saying film photography is dead. It never was. It's just not quite alive either.
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Old 08-30-2018   #65
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How many of us could settle for a new $300 film camera?
People are buying digital cameras for thousands of dollars in 3-5 year cycles.
But they don't have 300$ for a film camera that even lasts much much longer?
Sorry, that is ridiculous.
And it is not the case in reality, see the following comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
How much would us die-hard film shooters be willing to shell out for a new FM2 level camera?
Just look at the current used camera market: People are already paying very high prices for cameras like the Contax 645, Contax T2 and T3, Yashica T4 and T5, Minolta TC-1, Nikon Ti 28 and 35, Olympus Mju II, Pentax 67, Pentax 645 NII, Mamiya 6 and 7 / 7II, Plaubel Makina 67, almost all Hasselblads, Fuji TC1, Rollei TLRs, Rollei SL66E, Fuji GW 690, Fuji GX 680, Fuji GX 617, Linhof Technika, Nikon Fm3A, Nikon F6, Voigtländer Bessa III and several others.
As the interest in film is increasing, the prices for popular cameras, and seldom cameras (cameras produced in low volumes) are increasing.
The current price level just shows you that there is high demand for these cameras and that people are paying these prices.
The longer this trend is continuing, the higher the price level, the more attractive it will be for manufacturers to enter the market.
I know from the industry that first studies are currently made concerning re-intering the film camera market. But as all this takes time (market research and camera developing) I expect new cameras not in the short term, but in the mid and long term.

By the way: MINT will introduce its new higher-quality folding camera for Instax Wide film this year.

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How many of us did buy a F6 new then?
I did it. Several others on this forum, too (see the threads about the F6). So far about 35,600 customers have bought a F6 new (clearly indicated by the current shipped serial numbers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
Aesthetics alone is never the main driving force behind mass-market successes, simply because beauty is not mandatory.
Reality is proving you wrong for years: If you were right it would be impossible that meanwhile about 30 millions of people are using instant film.
There are so much more reasons to shoot film than you've mentioned.
And people are different, and make different choices.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #66
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Your usual FUD postings. You act like a robot. Boring, nothing else. Neither is Fujifilm exiting (you know that they are by far the biggest film manufacturer with booming instax sales and just recently introduced new 3-packs for C200 and X-Tra 400), nor is there any evidence that Kodak is going away from film production.



People like you are saying film is dying for 15 years now. But the opposite has happened: With Instax a film product is a mass market product again, even much better selling than mirrorless digital cameras. There are even new film manufacturers on the market like Adox and Film Ferrania (something what the doom and gloom prayers always have declared to be absolutely impossible). There are new films on the market, lots of new labs, film shops and used film camera shops.
The situation now is much much better than most thought ten years ago it would be!
And in ten years from now the situation will even be significantly better for film users than today.
About how much should we bet, 1,000$, 10,000$?
No problem for me to go in for 10,000$. Very easy earned money . Let's meet here again in 10 years. And don't forget to bring the 10,000 bucks .

Cheers, Jan

You insulted person who, if I'm not mistaken, has stock shares with Kodak.
Well, I was not keen by calling one of you two as hipster and communists, I guess it is my fault. Let's do it again.

Instax has nothing to do with film photography most of us are into here. But you are dumping this Instax card every time we are talking about film photography. You are like LP with broken record.
And you are acting here like bot who scans the web and dumping it here without reading and understanding. Just keywords recognition rudimental algorithm. And dump it here with another key words. It is boring indeed.

Ferrania is not ADOX. Ferrania name using bunch can't make anything as stable product. It is obvious for any person like me, who has basic knowledge in production and manufacturing received in university and on practice.
http://www.filmferrania.it/news-arti...-is-ours-again
Arrested development season 5 indeed.
This guy in Moscow is using some old coating machine and one operator. One guy, plus one operator makes more film than "Ferrania" bunch.


OOPS I did it again, call me as you want in return.
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Analog is Forever
Old 08-30-2018   #67
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Analog is Forever

Our brains are analog computers. To assume analog is passing is to assume music and most art forms are passing too.

As far as film goes, I can see it's many advantages and I will use film as long at it remains available. Photography to me has always been a craft aspiring to be art.

Long live quarter wave harmonics!
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Old 08-30-2018   #68
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Instax has nothing to do with film photography most of us are into here.
And why do we have a subforum for instant film photography here?
Lots of rff members are using instant and Instax film and enjoy it.
And you don't understand the importance of these product type for film production in general. It was explained here in detail several times by several members.
Again, for you:
1. Instant film is a film product with a negative film base. Produced on the same machinery as standard film (emulsion and coating).
2. By producing instant film companies like Fujifilm and Inoviscoat (they produce the film base for Polaroid films) can run their coating lines at proper capacity. That keeps other film products in production! At Fujifilm their standard films, at Inoviscoat film products for Lomography (Lomo Purple) and Bergger (Panchro 400) and photo paper products for other companies.
3. Instant photography attracts lots of people who have so far never shot film. Especially young, digital natives. With instant film they "overcome their first hurdles in using film". And lots of them gets hooked and also start using standard film.
Therefore it is very important as a "get-in drug" into using film. Because it is easy and a lot of fun. Perfect for first steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Ferrania is not ADOX.
Correct. Adox is in a much better position delivering very high quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Ferrania name using bunch can't make anything as stable product.
So far, yes. The quality is not up to the standard we are used to. I've tested their P30 film, and was dissappointed.
We have to wait and see how they will improve. They certainly will improve, how far is the question.

But, If you would have read my postings with attention, you would have seen that I've never said Film Ferrania will be a company on the same level as Kodak, Ilford etc.. I've just said that some years ago almost all "experts" said it is absolutely impossible that such a venture can happen. But the FF people just do it. Despite all the enormous difficulties.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-30-2018   #69
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
People are buying digital cameras for thousands of dollars in 3-5 year cycles.
But they don't have 300$ for a film camera that even lasts much much longer?
Sorry, that is ridiculous.
And it is not the case in reality, see the following comment:



Just look at the current used camera market: People are already paying very high prices for cameras like the Contax 645, Contax T2 and T3, Yashica T4 and T5, Minolta TC-1, Nikon Ti 28 and 35, Olympus Mju II, Pentax 67, Pentax 645 NII, Mamiya 6 and 7 / 7II, Plaubel Makina 67, almost all Hasselblads, Fuji TC1, Rollei TLRs, Rollei SL66E, Fuji GW 690, Fuji GX 680, Fuji GX 617, Linhof Technika, Nikon Fm3A, Nikon F6, Voigtländer Bessa III and several others.
As the interest in film is increasing, the prices for popular cameras, and seldom cameras (cameras produced in low volumes) are increasing.
The current price level just shows you that there is high demand for these cameras and that people are paying these prices.
The longer this trend is continuing, the higher the price level, the more attractive it will be for manufacturers to enter the market.
I know from the industry that first studies are currently made concerning re-intering the film camera market. But as all this takes time (market research and camera developing) I expect new cameras not in the short term, but in the mid and long term.

By the way: MINT will introduce its new higher-quality folding camera for Instax Wide film this year.



I did it. Several others on this forum, too (see the threads about the F6). So far about 35,600 customers have bought a F6 new (clearly indicated by the current shipped serial numbers).



Reality is proving you wrong for years: If you were right it would be impossible that meanwhile about 30 millions of people are using instant film.
There are so much more reasons to shoot film than you've mentioned.
And people are different, and make different choices.

Cheers, Jan
You're still comparing used prices to new while mixing the budget ones with the expensive. The 35mm luxury point & shoots were products of the Japanese bubble age, cost an average $1,000 when new 20 years ago, and were never meant for the mass. The medium format cameras: the Contax 645, Pentax 645N and 67, the Mamiyas were all multi-thousand dollar professional gears. Not many people could afford them then, still not many could now. There are people willing pay for them doesn't mean there's a lot of them, in a number large enough to support a budget-demanding industry. There are always people willing to pay any price for anything. Each Minolta TC-1 was made possible by perhaps a thousand Freedom sales. The Instax meanwhile enjoys mass-market success because a new Instax camera sells for as low as $60 and a twin film pack for $12. It's a price deemed acceptable by the ordinary people for an instant, tangible print, which is an affordable luxury. It's the same for consumers who are paying $$$ for a digital camera: the price is deemed OK for the quality and convenience it offers. But there had been always much fewer of them and we all know that number is in fast decline: many more people would pay $$$ for smart phones which depreciate even faster. Just for the convenience.

People surely are different and make different choices. But there is one thing I can firmly put my faith in: as long as economics goes, those who can and are willing to pay $$$$ for a new film camera will always be a tiny, tiny minority. Let us not judge by the specific examples in our daily lives lead us to believe, but use common sense: 36500 F6 buyers in 14 years (how many per year in the last 5 years, since we all follow the serial number thread?), that's it. Hardly profitable, yet Nikon still makes it out of good will. But does a company run on good will alone? If the used F6 price is pushed up to the $2,000s, will Nikon suddenly have a lot of new customers?

I'd not be counting on that minority to breathe life back to the film camera industry. Unless the average wage suddenly boomed for some reason...but then we'd be having different desires, and different troubles.
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Old 08-30-2018   #70
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Really? The linked article uses the analogue/digital split. Which realms of photography are neither film (or at least silver halide) or digital?

Cheers,

R.
My point was 'analogue photography' does exist. It's a slightly broader term than 'film photography' because it includes processes where you don't insert film into a camera (i.e. an emulsion dried onto a plastic film base). Examples would be wet plate processes, photograms, using paper negatives etc.
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Old 08-30-2018   #71
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Good, affordable scanners, which also take 120 format and produce at least the same output as certain Nikon`s with firewire (even spelling check does not recognize this word) and awkward film holders...that may help.
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Old 08-30-2018   #72
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Good, affordable scanners, which also take 120 format and produce at least the same output as certain Nikon`s with firewire (even spelling check does not recognize this word) and awkward film holders...that may help.
+1

Kodak should really start making the Pakon again. At £300, they'd shift a billion units a year!
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Old 08-30-2018   #73
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Easy Peasy. Shoot. More. Film. These industries are the result of millions of people making independent decisions. So keep pressing that shutter button.

Edit: or looked at another way, if it ain't dead at this point, can anything actually kill it?
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Old 08-30-2018   #74
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Hipsters! They are the reason for increased film sales .
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Old 09-04-2018   #75
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Really? The linked article uses the analogue/digital split. Which realms of photography are neither film (or at least silver halide) or digital?

Cheers,

R.
Hi Roger, I'm sure you've heard of carbon print before.
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Old 09-04-2018   #76
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Good, affordable scanners, which also take 120 format and produce at least the same output as certain Nikon`s with firewire (even spelling check does not recognize this word) and awkward film holders...that may help.

If you time it right, the Plustek OpticFilm 120 often sells for $1500. While that isnt exactly cheap, it's very affordable to the dedicated hobbiest who may shoot film instead of digital. It is a VERY good scanner with fantastic film holders. And it's brand new.
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