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Nikon Mirrorless Overdue about 3 years, the Nikon Mirrorless system finally arrived in 2018!

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Old 08-14-2018   #81
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How about this, sports fans....
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/13/b...x/#more-124577

58mm f/0.95 Noct. Sweet. Apparently not everyone thinks that low noise digital sensors obviate the utility of high speed lenses. Or maybe it’s just Nikon saying, “Yeah, we can do that.” Just because.
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Old 08-14-2018   #82
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Looking forward to a lens roadmap. Depending on what it shows, it may be several years before I think about buying in.
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Old 08-14-2018   #83
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Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
...Apparently not everyone thinks that low noise digital sensors obviate the utility of high speed lenses. Or maybe it’s just Nikon saying, “Yeah, we can do that.” Just because.
I would hope no one thinks that.

When they are wide open, high-speed lenses mean more total light reaches the sensor which means more there is more signal. Regardless of sensor area, more S/N can be a good thing.

Then's there's subject isolation which can similarly useful.
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Old 08-14-2018   #84
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Because this is the first significant change in their business plan for many years. Specifically, Nikon has finally realized cannibalizing their 24 x 36mm DSLR is unavoidable. Better late than never.

Second, the new mount seems to be compatible with sensor areas greater than 24 x 36mm. If it turns out a product line with larger sensor is developed, this means a completely new family of lenses. So, it's possible Nikon could experience significant sales growth.
Well said. Timing is everything. I'm hopeful that Nikon is not too late to the game, though it very much feels like they are. Perhaps they are late in the way Apple was late with the iPod or iPhone. As in, their entry defined the beginning of a new era.

I don't think Nikon can afford to pull any punches. If this new camera came with a larger than full-frame sensor, and old lenses used an FX crop mode, while the new lenses already announced covered the larger sensor, that would be tremendously bold of them. I'm hoping for something that is a big jump forward in the marketplace, not only just for Nikon, at a price point that is competitive with full frame bodies. I think the only room to grow is bigger sensors, and rather than Nikon throwing their hat in the ring with a "me too", they can lead instead.

I'm having a hard time imagining what else Nikon brings to the table with a completely new format. I can already stick legacy Nikon lenses on a full-frame Sony body. I hope they have a good answer to "How is this camera going to be better?"
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Old 08-14-2018   #85
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Originally Posted by RObert Budding View Post
The new Nikon mirrorless mount looks as if it might be large enough for medium format . . .
Might also be that big to allow for a large amount of sensor shift for stabilization.

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Old 08-14-2018   #86
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Old 08-14-2018   #87
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I don't think they are too late. The only real FF mirrorless competition is Sony. And judging from all the grousing about the A7 series usability and computer-with-lens sentiments, I'd say Nikon has an opportunity.

We can't expect to see much file quality difference, but if they offer a satisfying traditional camera usability experience, from a real camera company, I think people will welcome that.

I'm not keen on SLR-style bodies, but I'm looking forward to the announcement.

John
Quite frankly, as a Sony A7R user and former Canon/Nikon DSLR user I do not see any difference in the use of both systems. It's not like a cell phone vs DSLR usability. It's the same buttons, same dials, same everything. The biggest difference is battery life and optical finder. Former will get sorted with better battery tech, latter, improvements in LCD/LED tech. As of now, I don't see what Nikon can improve over existing Sony options in the usability department. I.e. unless you have huge hands. Then the whole mirrorless size aspect goes out the window.
Now, if we start comparing it to Fuji usability with dedicated manual controls, that's another game.
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Old 08-14-2018   #88
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Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
Who really knows ?

Anything is possible.

Canon will also have a new lens mount for their FF mirrorless cameras and if they are not the usual ridiculous sized humongous lens monstrosities that are on Sony FF Mirrorless... and by the looks of it they will be that way "Honkin' big Lenses "on the new Nikon FF mirrorless camera too, then it will be a good thing.

The huge physical design of built-in AF and image stabilisation do-all lenses on these new FF mirrorless cameras defeat the whole premise and raison d'être of a fine and high quality and very portable compact FF mirrorless cameras with interchangeable lenses.

Me.

There's absolutely no chance they'll do a new mount. The EOS mount is the biggest selling point of any of the cameras they make.
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Old 08-14-2018   #89
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Me.

There's absolutely no chance they'll do a new mount. The EOS mount is the biggest selling point of any of the cameras they make.
The Canon FF mirror-less camera is not a Canon DSLR and will have a shorter register distance to the sensor plane, so a new lens mount is very possible.

And especially if they want to outdo Nikon in the "larger diameter lens mount is better, just in case we go bigger than FF in the future" sweepstakes.

Canon is taking its time releasing their full frame mirror-less camera and has most probably caught on to what Nikon's sneaky plan is with its new more than humongous diameter lens mount for FF mirrior-less and will not be out done .
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Old 08-15-2018   #90
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The Canon FF mirror-less camera is not a Canon DSLR and will have a shorter register distance to the sensor plane, so a new lens mount is very possible.

And especially if they want to outdo Nikon in the "larger diameter lens mount is better, just in case we go bigger than FF in the future" sweepstakes.

Canon is taking its time releasing their full frame mirror-less camera and has most probably caught on to what Nikon's sneaky plan is with its new more than humongous diameter lens mount for FF mirrior-less and will not be out done .
Canon already has a larger lens mount than Nikon.

They won't dare add a fourth mount into their current line up, they'll play to their strengths which is the EF lens range.
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Old 08-15-2018   #91
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Originally Posted by BlackXList View Post
Canon already has a larger lens mount than Nikon.

They won't dare add a fourth mount into their current line up, they'll play to their strengths which is the EF lens range.
Canon EOS mount lenses will still need an adapter to work on one of their new up coming FF mirror-less cameras because one of the two proposed FF mirror-less cameras have a shorter register distance to the sensor plane, so a new mount is not out of the question.

https://www.canonrumors.com/is-a-nat...ss-camera-cr1/
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Old 08-15-2018   #92
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personally I don't see any full frame mirrorless cameras
that I would call "a great camera."

I think Nikon could redefine the existing marketplace with a great design,
time will tell
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Old 08-16-2018   #93
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I will speculate Nikon's long-term game is to redefine full frame to mean the largest sensor surface area they can use with their new larger mount.
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Old 08-19-2018   #94
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As of now, I don't see what Nikon can improve over existing Sony options in the usability department.
Well, how about a 'real' touchscreen for example, and don't let me start with Sony menus

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Old 08-19-2018   #95
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Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
How about this, sports fans....
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/13/b...x/#more-124577

58mm f/0.95 Noct. Sweet. Apparently not everyone thinks that low noise digital sensors obviate the utility of high speed lenses. Or maybe it’s just Nikon saying, “Yeah, we can do that.” Just because.
As a Canon user I'm contractually obliged to say "Well hopefully they can finally put AF in the fast lenses"

I think they already have a similar lens, but not knowing my Nikon stuff I may be wrong.
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Old 08-19-2018   #96
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Might also be that big to allow for a large amount of sensor shift for stabilization.

Shawn
That, too. Likely IBIS isn't high on the list of features for people who shoot medium format.
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Old 08-20-2018   #97
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Originally Posted by RObert Budding View Post
That, too. Likely IBIS isn't high on the list of features for people who shoot medium format.
Nikon's product teams have always favored lens stabilization. In 2018 IBIS is important for video. FUJIFILM also prefers lens stabilization but recently released the Fujifilm X-H1 with IBIS for people interested in high-quality video. Eventually, I would expect Nikon to do the same.

I don't use adapted lenses or video so I prefer lens stabilization. Obviously both systems have advantages and disadvantages.
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Old 08-20-2018   #98
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Originally Posted by RObert Budding View Post
That, too. Likely IBIS isn't high on the list of features for people who shoot medium format.
Likely true, but potentially true because it isn't available on MF. But I meant a large lens mount to offer a lot of movement for IBIS on a full frame sensor. However, if that could also translate to IBIS on a MF sensor that would be class leading for Nikon. Even more so if they added a pixel shift shooting function to it.

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Old 08-20-2018   #99
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IBIS for medium format would be a delight after all of those slow-ish lenses and comparatively noisy-ish sensors.

It's also important for video, which a lot of people hope this mirrorless camera will be good at.
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Old 08-21-2018   #100
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Lately I've heard about concerns about eye injury from long(er) term use of mirrorless EVFs. And getting headaches from intensive use. The eye is very close to the light source, and certain wavelengths (blue?) can damage the retina and possibly cause cataracks and macular degeneration. At least that have been the statements.
I don't have any good knowledge in medicine, therefore I am not able to jugde that.
But I've read some recent scientific reports about eye degeneration of children (getting short-sighted) because of using smartphones too intensively. One reason being the very short viewing distance. With EVF the viewing distance is even much much shorter.
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Old 08-21-2018   #101
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Lately I've heard about concerns about eye injury from long(er) term use of mirrorless EVFs. And getting headaches from intensive use. The eye is very close to the light source, and certain wavelengths (blue?) can damage the retina and possibly cause cataracks and macular degeneration. At least that have been the statements.
I don't have any good knowledge in medicine, therefore I am not able to jugde that.
But I've read some recent scientific reports about eye degeneration of children (getting short-sighted) because of using smartphones too intensively. One reason being the very short viewing distance. With EVF the viewing distance is even much much shorter.

Sounds like Instax to the rescue once again.
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Old 08-21-2018   #102
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Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
personally I don't see any full frame mirrorless cameras
that I would call "a great camera."

I think Nikon could redefine the existing marketplace with a great design,
time will tell
What about APS cameras?

I suspect Nikon will follow the FF with a smaller (read less pricey, Nikkormat-ish) version with an F mount (and AI prong please).

B2 (;->
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Old 08-21-2018   #103
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Any more recent photos than the one in the teaser?

Potentially could be pretty small, albeit bulbous.
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Old 08-21-2018   #104
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Lately I've heard about concerns about eye injury from long(er) term use of mirrorless EVFs. And getting headaches from intensive use. The eye is very close to the light source, and certain wavelengths (blue?) can damage the retina and possibly cause cataracks and macular degeneration. At least that have been the statements.
I don't have any good knowledge in medicine, therefore I am not able to jugde that.
But I've read some recent scientific reports about eye degeneration of children (getting short-sighted) because of using smartphones too intensively. One reason being the very short viewing distance. With EVF the viewing distance is even much much shorter.
Any articles to share? Sounds interesting.
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Old 08-21-2018   #105
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<…> I don't want the same company responsible for the Ghostbusters remake making my stinkin' camera. <…> Sony? When times get tough, they're apt to bail me thinks. There's ample precedence for this. Nikon? They'll fight to survive or die trying.

They're a camera maker.

I'm on team Nikon.
For the record, Sony is Minolta. I think they should have kept the Minolta name. But either way, I always considered Minolta a camera maker.
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Old 08-21-2018   #106
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Lately I've heard about concerns about eye injury from long(er) term use of mirrorless EVFs. And getting headaches from intensive use. The eye is very close to the light source, and certain wavelengths (blue?) can damage the retina and possibly cause cataracks and macular degeneration. At least that have been the statements.
I don't have any good knowledge in medicine, therefore I am not able to jugde that.
But I've read some recent scientific reports about eye degeneration of children (getting short-sighted) because of using smartphones too intensively. One reason being the very short viewing distance. With EVF the viewing distance is even much much shorter.
I, too, would like to see sources, sounds interesting. Thus far I'm skeptical, but of course skepticism the other way, wrt the supposed harmlessness of things is always advisable in health related issues.

1. Isn't the light that reaches the eye still less intensive than sunlight?

2. Why would the physical distance matter? The optical distance should be near infinity.
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Old 08-21-2018   #107
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Originally Posted by Skiff View Post
Lately I've heard about concerns about eye injury from long(er) term use of mirrorless EVFs. And getting headaches from intensive use. The eye is very close to the light source, and certain wavelengths (blue?) can damage the retina and possibly cause cataracks and macular degeneration. At least that have been the statements.
I don't have any good knowledge in medicine, therefore I am not able to jugde that.
But I've read some recent scientific reports about eye degeneration of children (getting short-sighted) because of using smartphones too intensively. One reason being the very short viewing distance. With EVF the viewing distance is even much much shorter.
This could potentially be a problem to VR-headset manufacturers. Those devices are to be held in front of eyes for long periods. But who peers through camera evf like that? Don’t think even videographers.
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Old 08-21-2018   #108
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First leaked pictures of the Z6 and Z7 cameras are up at Photo Rumors.
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Old 08-21-2018   #109
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Those hoping for a clean design along the lines of a Nikon SP (or a Leica SL for that matter) are weeping softly. More buttons than a dress shop.
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Old 08-21-2018   #110
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How about this, sports fans....
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/13/b...x/#more-124577

58mm f/0.95 Noct. Sweet. Apparently not everyone thinks that low noise digital sensors obviate the utility of high speed lenses. Or maybe it’s just Nikon saying, “Yeah, we can do that.” Just because.
Hey any little bit of a stop matters sometimes but I suspect it is something all new fangled and high tech...I hope
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Old 08-22-2018   #111
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Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
Any articles to share? Sounds interesting.
Concerning headaches and eye strain caused by EVF I've read it in some forums where users reported that. Also two friends of mine have experienced that.

Concerning possible damage of the retina and possible cataracks and macular degeneration I've first heard of it last year in a science TV channel. They said there are first serious hints to that, but further research is needed.
Concerning the problem of degeneration / short-sightedness caused by too short viewing distances (e.g. smartphone use) you'll find numerous resources by a Google search. Depending on the key words (and language) you use (I've got 200,000 - 280,000 hits depending on the search words).
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Old 08-22-2018   #112
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Concerning headaches and eye strain caused by EVF I've read it in some forums where users reported that. Also two friends of mine have experienced that.

Concerning possible damage of the retina and possible cataracks and macular degeneration I've first heard of it last year in a science TV channel. They said there are first serious hints to that, but further research is needed.
Concerning the problem of degeneration / short-sightedness caused by too short viewing distances (e.g. smartphone use) you'll find numerous resources by a Google search. Depending on the key words (and language) you use (I've got 200,000 - 280,000 hits depending on the search words).
Fuji EVFs give me extreme nausea and headaches w/in seconds. Sonys I'm ok for a while, Olympus maybe a little better. The Leica EVF2 is pretty bad - about the Sony level. Perhaps the EVF on the SL works best for me, but I still have a headache after a little while of using it.

OVFs? No issues.
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Old 08-22-2018   #113
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No seperate exposure compensation dial. Body looks eerily similar to the Samsung nx1 from several years ago. Doesn't really look like the design of a camera company - more an electronics company IMO.
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Old 08-22-2018   #114
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Fuji EVFs give me extreme nausea and headaches w/in seconds. Sonys I'm ok for a while, Olympus maybe a little better. The Leica EVF2 is pretty bad - about the Sony level. Perhaps the EVF on the SL works best for me, but I still have a headache after a little while of using it.

OVFs? No issues.

Did you have the diopter set correctly? The display should appear sharpest when your eye is relaxed and focused at infinity
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Old 08-22-2018   #115
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No seperate exposure compensation dial. Body looks eerily similar to the Samsung nx1 from several years ago. Doesn't really look like the design of a camera company - more an electronics company IMO.
Nikon got rid of the dedicated compensation dial with the N8008 in 1988. Amazing to learn they no longer qualify as a camera company since then...
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Old 08-22-2018   #116
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I see a +/- button on top for exposure compensation, just like so many previous Nikon models...
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Old 08-22-2018   #117
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I see a +/- button on top for exposure compensation, just like so many previous Nikon models...
Yep. You press the button and simultaneously rotate the control wheel, just like they have been doing for a while. Dials up third stops either up or down, so more precise and greater range than most dedicated dials. It's fine.
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Old 08-22-2018   #118
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One of the problems I've had with several mirrorless cameras I've tested have been ergonomics. So far no mirrorless camera has fully convinced me in that regard.
DSLRs and SLRs do fit much better for me ergonomically.
The best camera in that regard is the Nikon F6. It is even better than the later DSLRs D3, D4, D5 and the D750, D800/810/850. The reason is that because of the large screen of the DSLRs on the back some buttons cannot be placed at the optimal points for the fingers. The rear LCD needs too much space.

This problem seems to be even more given with the new Z6 and Z7 cameras (first pictures have been already leaked): Because of the smaller dimensions there is even less place to place the buttons. And lots of the rear buttons are now placed on the right side very close to the right hand which is normally the "main holding hand" (at least for right-handers). Could lead to potential errors by pressing the too closely placed buttons unintendedly by the right hand.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 08-22-2018   #119
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One of the problems I've had with several mirrorless cameras I've tested have been ergonomics. So far no mirrorless camera has fully convinced me in that regard.
DSLRs and SLRs do fit much better for me ergonomically.
The best camera in that regard is the Nikon F6. It is even better than the later DSLRs D3, D4, D5 and the D750, D800/810/850. The reason is that because of the large screen of the DSLRs on the back some buttons cannot be placed at the optimal points for the fingers. The rear LCD needs too much space.

This problem seems to be even more given with the new Z6 and Z7 cameras (first pictures have been already leaked): Because of the smaller dimensions there is even less place to place the buttons. And lots of the rear buttons are now placed on the right side very close to the right hand which is normally the "main holding hand" (at least for right-handers). Could lead to potential errors by pressing the too closely placed buttons unintendedly by the right hand.

Cheers, Jan
Yes, it does look like a buttonfest on that Z7 FF Mirror-less camera.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAKJr5xqMME&t=384s
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Old 08-22-2018   #120
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Originally Posted by Archlich View Post
Nikon got rid of the dedicated compensation dial with the N8008 in 1988. Amazing to learn they no longer qualify as a camera company since then...
Dogmatic thinking shouldn't apply to a new product line - especially since the n8008 wasn't exactly an ergonomic wonder to begin with. The z6/7 only have the front command dial and an unmarked top command dial - no rear command dial like the Sony's and fujis. If they had included a rear command dial you would have a direct interface for most of the main exposure adjustments. How much do you want to bet they add another control dial for their coming pro models later down the track?
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