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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 07-19-2018   #81
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I have used Nikon FE, FM, FM2, F, F2 cameras, plus a Nikkormat. The best combination of robustness and usefulness (to me) was the F2 and then the FM2.
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Old 07-19-2018   #82
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The only method to make someone care for a camera outfit.
Make them pay for it!
Free gifts are never appreciated, in most cases.
My daughter (older now) treated my old Pentax SP like a precious jewel.
Spotlessly clean, battery cleaned of deposit..
I never made her pay for it!
I knew the sort of person she was becoming!
A certain watch company made the Swiss Government pay full retail for each and every gift to foreign heads of state.
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Old 07-19-2018   #83
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^^^^
So, make them pay for it? Don't make them pay for it?

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Old 07-19-2018   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
^^^^
So, make them pay for it? Don't make them pay for it?

LOL I was wondering that myself...
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Old 07-19-2018   #85
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Originally Posted by Ste_S View Post
For an SLR, another vote for a Nikkormat. They're cheap, mechanical and can also be used as a self defence aid.

Otherwise, I'd recommend an Olympus Trip 35. Cheap, compact and as long as the cell is still working not a lot can go wrong
Apparently an Olympus OM1 is good for that as well. Many years ago in Korea a GI accosted another GI and demanded his camera. He got it. Swung up beside his head. He decided he didn't want it so much after all and ran away.
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Old 07-19-2018   #86
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Hey,

Recommend me an SLR that is tough as nails in every aspect and won't break (the bank)?

My backpacking daughter takes SLRs on her trip and even manages to wreck a Chinon Memotron CE-II, which is a pretty tough camera already. So any advice on a tough-as-nails camera that preferably can also withstand a bit of beach sand is very welcome. Student's backpacking budget, so please no recommendations of the top line Nikon or Canon SLR...? Internal meter required and anything else is up for debate except build quality
From my own experiences with backpacking tours:
Nikon FM, FM-2, FE, FE-2.
Robust, reliable, compact, light, cheap on the used market (especially the FM and FE).

Cheers, Jan
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Old 07-19-2018   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Nikon FM, FM-2, FE, FE-2.
Robust, reliable, compact, light, cheap on the used market (especially the FM and FE).

Agreed. And having a non-removeable prism gives them an advantage over the oft-recommended F and F2, in my opinion: the compactness and light weight of the FM/FE series vs. the extra weight and bulk (and potential breakage or loss) of the F and F2 metered prisms. Small points perhaps but for backpacking, light and compact is a good thing.
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Old 07-19-2018   #88
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Old 07-19-2018   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by css9450 View Post
Agreed. And having a non-removeable prism gives them an advantage over the oft-recommended F and F2, in my opinion: the compactness and light weight of the FM/FE series vs. the extra weight and bulk (and potential breakage or loss) of the F and F2 metered prisms. Small points perhaps but for backpacking, light and compact is a good thing.
Breakage or loss? Really?

Fair points about weight, though surely no-one recommends metered F prisms.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 07-19-2018   #90
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I sometimes carried together in a small camera bag an FE and an FM (or FM2). I would never (ever) carry together an F2 with an F.
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Old 07-19-2018   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Breakage or loss? Really?

Fair points about weight, though surely no-one recommends metered F prisms.
Well, I did say it was an opinion.

The OP wants a camera with a meter. I wouldn't recommend an F, but at least five different posters did so that is why I mentioned it. Maybe its more indicative of just MY F, but the prism attachment of my F2 and F3 are greatly improved over that of my F. And when people are discussing which camera is going to survive rolling around in a backpack, the F prism just sounds like the first item that is going to come loose.
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Old 07-19-2018   #92
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Well, I did say it was an opinion.

The OP wants a camera with a meter. I wouldn't recommend an F, but at least five different posters did so that is why I mentioned it. Maybe its more indicative of just MY F, but the prism attachment of my F2 and F3 are greatly improved over that of my F. And when people are discussing which camera is going to survive rolling around in a backpack, the F prism just sounds like the first item that is going to come loose.
Fair enough, but that's why I suggested a meterless F and learning to guess exposures. I've never had a F prism come off in over 40 years, including TTL heads, but I have to admit that by the time I was treating 'em rough (early 80s) I'd switched to plain prisms.

Cheers,

R,
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Old 07-19-2018   #93
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Personal anecdotes do not count as science. BUT, years ago I accompanied my archeologist wife when she was recording a Viking age export industry (Soapstone bowls). On the hills we were surprised by an intensive downpour. No waterproof kit at hand. Her OM-1 prism became cloudy, the light meter conked out, but the lens survived. The repairers said that the camera had to be discarded. My M3 continued to work, but I took it to the Leica importers for service, believing that at least the timing must have gone off. Nothing wrong with it.

Never happened to have my Alpas along in such weather, but they seem to be quite sturdily built.

Nowadays I use digital equipment and carry a plastic bag.

p.

Last edited by ph. : 07-19-2018 at 11:57. Reason: comma rules
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Old 07-19-2018   #94
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Personal anecdotes do not count as science. BUT , years ago I accompanied my archeologist wife when she was recording a Viking age export industry (Soapstone bowls). On the hills we were surprised by an intensive downpour. . No waterproof kit at hand. Her OM-1 prism became cloudy, the light meter conked out, but the lens survived. The repairers said that the camera had to be discarded. My M3 continued to work, but I took it to the Leica importers for service, believing that at least the timing must have gone off. Nothing wriong with it.

Never happened to have my Alpas along in such weather, but they seem to be quite sturdily built.

Nowadays I use digital equipment and carry a plastic bag.
Zip-Locs are indeed a magical invention.

But I remember "sealing" my Nikon Fs in the Himalayas during the monsoon with masking tape. You really don't have to keep much rain off.

That year, I remember seeing a 1-metre drainage pipe, just below the road around Thekchen Choeling, spouting out a jet of water a metre in diameter and two metres long.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 07-19-2018   #95
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In no particular order


Nikon F2
Nikon F3
Nikon FM series
Leicaflex SL/SL2
Canon F-1/n

Any of the pro Nikon / Canon bodies F4/5/6/F100 Canon 1-v etc
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Old 07-19-2018   #96
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Well, I did not notice the request for a camera with a TTL meter. The Nikon F3 was the most produced F in history (I think). And it is a GREAT camera.
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Old 07-19-2018   #97
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Nikon F2 plain prism or F.

Nikon D3 .

Early Nikormats FT or FT N has same guts as Nikon F with less options a student does not need.
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Old 07-19-2018   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald M View Post
Nikon F2 plain prism or F.

Nikon D3 .

Early Nikormats FT or FT N has same guts as Nikon F with less options a student does not need.
As I recall, the Nikkormats had a vertical-travel metal-leaf shutter with a flash synch speed of 1/125. The Nikons F and F2 had a horizontal-travel titanium-curtain shutter with flash synch of 1/60. So, there had to be some fundamental differences.

Not to deny that the Nikkormats were rugged machines, but I remember reading that they weren't designed for the same number of exposures as the F and F2. I remember seeing pro photographers using Fs or F2s as primary with Nikkormats as backup, though I can't testify to every pro doing this.

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Old 07-19-2018   #99
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ph's story brought this one to mind. I'm sure I've told it before but I'll repeat anyway.

On a Saturday when I was working at the local daily newspaper, I had to cover two football games. The first was at a nearby college. Unfortunately a rain storm started just as the game began. I decided to use my oldest Nikon F because it was the only camera I owned that I felt I could afford to sacrifice. I had no recourse on lenses, I used my 180/2.8 and hoped for the best. After the game, I returned to the lab and dismantled the soaked Nikon, removing back, prism and focus screen and put it and the lens in the film dryer. Once dry, I checked out camera and lens and found them to still be working with no evidence of damage.

That night I had to cover a bowl game. The weather had improved but the field was a mud pit. I used the same Nikon F and 180 and they functioned perfectly although they were occasionally splashed with mud. Neither the rain nor the mud had any lasting effect on camera or lens.
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Old 07-19-2018   #100
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Yes, the Nikon F with or without a motor drive and the 180f2.8 was my go to for sports like night football. It was a powerful tool and just goes to show how soft and easy sport photography is today with autofocus and 8-10 fps.

Technology is a wonderful thing. Leica may even be getting on the technology bandwagon.
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Old 07-20-2018   #101
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Due to their lighter amateur use most of those old Nikkormats
probably have as many - or more - shutter cycles left in them
as Nikon F series cameras, many of which have seen heavy use.

Though I do prefer horizontal-run cloth shutters I am a grudging
admirer of the extreme durability of vertical-run metal shutters.

Chris
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Old 07-21-2018   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johannielscom View Post
Hey,

Recommend me an SLR that is tough as nails in every aspect and won't break (the bank)?

My backpacking daughter takes SLRs on her trip and even manages to wreck a Chinon Memotron CE-II, which is a pretty tough camera already. So any advice on a tough-as-nails camera that preferably can also withstand a bit of beach sand is very welcome. Student's backpacking budget, so please no recommendations of the top line Nikon or Canon SLR...? Internal meter required and anything else is up for debate except build quality
The toughest SLR I have is a Nikon F2, but I would never take it backpacking... it's just too heavy. In my youth, I took my Olympus XA backpacking for more than 10 years. It survived being bashed into stone cliff walls, being dropped several times, being stepped on in the dark, and it still works fine 35 years later.

Is your daughter really committed to film photography? Cheap digital cameras, extra memory cards and batteries are much lighter, and much less gut wrenching when they are damaged on a trip. (OK, almost any digital camera is less dear to me than film cameras, but that is my personal bias.) Even a modern cell phone makes a pretty rugged backpacking camera, and is very compact.

Scott
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Old 07-21-2018   #103
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I am thinking that the recent low cost of sturdy middle of the road 1970s SLRs should make the solution to your daughter's annihilation of cameras a moot point.

I mean these days one can pick up a Canon FTb or a Nikkormat or a Minolta SRT for 30 to 80 dollars,

80 dollars equates to less than 15 dollars in mid 1970s Inflation Calculator mode and those sturdy cameras cost us much more than 15 bucks in the 1970s.
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Old 07-27-2018   #104
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Nikon F. Reliable and cheap. Even near mint samples are going for "pennies" on that big auction site. Repairs aren't that expensive either, but the recent three I've acquired have needed none, other then mirror foam. And that fix is $3 plus my time.
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Old 07-27-2018   #105
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No mention of the camera nicknamed The Tank? Canon T90.

That being said, perhaps too heavy and too much automation.
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Old 07-27-2018   #106
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Nikkormat definitely.
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Old 07-27-2018   #107
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After three pages of recommendations I have concluded two things:

There is a score of SLR's available that fit the bill, and
Many RFF members cannot be bothered reading a whole thread to see what is actually requested, both technically and price-wise...
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Old 07-27-2018   #108
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Both conclusions correct. That's what makes this site so useful, no? Direct answers PLUS answers outside the box.
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Old 07-27-2018   #109
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There are quite a few that can withstand abuse to a degree. But none is indestructible. This is so true when it comes to lenses. Being careful is the best protection.

But to avoid accidents in journey, I recommend a relatively light camera such as Nikon FTN with a small lens combination, equipped with a pouch.
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Old 07-30-2018   #110
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There is no such thing as a "built-like-a-tank" camera. Cameras are sensitive and delicate instruments.

They are only lucky owners who happened to abuse them, but not critically damage them.
Yes, I cringe everytime I see someone posting their rain soaked camera on Instagram as a trophy shot

Just because a camera is running after abuse doesn't mean it's happy. Sand and moisture inside will definitely accelerate wear, even if the camera seems fine
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Old 07-30-2018   #111
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Quote:
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After three pages of recommendations I have concluded two things:

There is a score of SLR's available that fit the bill, and
Many RFF members cannot be bothered reading a whole thread to see what is actually requested, both technically and price-wise...
Posting here can be a challenge, Johan. A Ph.D. does not help much!
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Old 07-30-2018   #112
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Quote:
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Many RFF members cannot be bothered reading a whole thread to see what is actually requested, both technically and price-wise...
RFF members should not need to read the whole thread to see what is actually requested.

To see was is actually requested, RFF members should only need to read the first post in the thread.
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Old 07-30-2018   #113
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As in most threads the majority of the replies addressed the intial query.

Should any thread be a simple Q and A? IMO it would be far less interesting
without the twists and turns threads make here and on other good forums.

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Old 07-30-2018   #114
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As in most threads the majority of the replies addressed the intial query.

Should any thread be a simple Q and A? IMO it would be far less interesting
without the twists and turns threads make here and on other good forums.

Chris
Dear Chris,

And others said, "But can you live without...?" or "Could you live with...?" or "Had you considered the possibility of..."

Cheers,

R.
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Old 07-30-2018   #115
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Dear Chris,

And others said, "But can you live without...?" or "Could you live with...?" or "Had you considered the possibility of..."

Cheers,

R.
Dear Roger,

Exactly!

Best wishes,
Chris
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Old 07-30-2018   #116
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Hi,

This is a forum and that, to me, means a place where things etc are discussed. I'd hate to answer a multiple choice question with the tick boxes alone to select as my opinion.

And the original question was "So any advice on a tough-as-nails camera that preferably can also withstand a bit of beach sand is very welcome. Student's backpacking budget, so please no recommendations of the top line Nikon or Canon SLR...? Internal meter required and anything else is up for debate except build quality... "

So I reckon we've answered it...

Regards, David
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Old 07-30-2018   #117
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After three pages of recommendations I have concluded two things:

There is a score of SLRs available that fit the bill, and
Many RFF members cannot be bothered reading a whole thread to see what is actually requested, both technically and price-wise...
1. You're correct.

2. It's the OP's responsibility to read through all responses and determine what is right for her/him.


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Old 07-30-2018   #118
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somebody make a video of you hammering nails with your camera and upload it to youtube. i guarantee it'll get millions of views.
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Old 07-30-2018   #119
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Considering low budget (75) I'd go for Konica T3. And Hexanon 50/1.7 is quite outstanding lens.
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Old 07-31-2018   #120
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I'm currently using a Soligor TM (Miranda Sensomat with M42 mount) and it's survived getting beer spilled on it (twice) at a wedding and having my 18 stone self land on it when falling off a rock on the moors. Still works smoothly.
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