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Old 06-28-2018   #41
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
There was no mass delusion. I can verify this by my own account. I had absolutely NO knowledge of the Belgium Wave. None. I had NO interest in UFOs. None. I had no knowledge of the Bucks County wave.

What I saw, driving along one night on a small road were two massive hovering black triangles. They were completely silent, and as plain and obvious as anything else you might see. They were not planes, they were not blimps, there were compltely unlike anything else I had ever seen. I was completely sober, not high, I was driving home from work.

I did not just glimpse at them. I stopped my car, got out of my car, and stared at them for many minutes. I drove a different direction after a few minutes to get a different perspective.

1. I had no knowledge of black triangles. I had not seen any news reports before seeing them. Therefore it was NOT "mass delusion".

2. I only learned of the Bucks County Wave many months after the fact.

3. I only heard of the Belgium Wave after learning about "black triangles". They met the exact description of what I saw in 2008.

I can understand your skepticism. But guess what? If you think these things don't exist, you're completely wrong. I can tell you from my own first-hand experience that this is not mass delusion because I know nothing about any of this prior. It's not like I saw a news report and "thought" I "might have" seen them.

The "mass delusion" thing is a cop-out. As a civilization we are in complete denial.
This is getting to be like the two camp divide of whether one believes Paul McCartney was replaced with an impostor sometime in late 1966 or not.

Some people see it and some cannot ever see it and they would poke fun at the ones that see it.

Human beings are odd that way.
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Old 06-28-2018   #42
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Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
Some people see it and some cannot ever see it and they would poke fun at the ones that see it.

Human beings are odd that way.
The notion of "mass hysteria" is a ridiculous one. Those who are so quick to ask, "where's you're evidence?" (as they ignore the evidence) are quick to claim "mass hysteria" without evidence.

In my case it wasn't mass hysteria -- and in fact refutes such nonsensical notions, because I had no idea what black triangles were, no knowledge of the Bucks County Wave in 2008, and no knowledge of prior black triangle waves such as the Belgium wave in 1989, where the Belgium airforce scrambled F16's to intercept until well after the fact, and no pre-existing "true believer" biases as it was a topic that I simply devoted zero bandwith to.

And I would counter this baseless claim of "mass hysteria" that those who have witnessed these things (many, many people over many, many years) all describing the same thing, are simply -- like me, describing exactly what they encountered free from "hysteria", mass or otherwise.
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Old 06-28-2018   #43
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[color=LemonChiffon][color=Silver]Corran, love that photo. Can you share some more information? Camera, exposure?
According to my EXIF:

D800, 14-24mm @ f/3.5, 30s exposure, ISO 1600.

I was taking a long exposure series, to be combined later, and you can see this object come into frame, then turn and go back out of the frame. Nothing erratic in its flight but I also captured other planes which clearly have the typical blinking light and wing lights and much higher in the sky. Comparatively this light was probably 100x brighter than the planes (likely commercial). I didn't hear a sound as it came by.

In fact here is the entire sequence layered on top of each other. Three frames, so about 1.5 minutes. Just a quick layering w/ no edits hence the slight difference in color/shadow detail:

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Old 06-28-2018   #44
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
The notion of "mass hysteria" is a ridiculous one. Those who are so quick to ask, "where's you're evidence?" (as they ignore the evidence) are quick to claim "mass hysteria" without evidence.

In my case it wasn't mass hysteria -- and in fact refutes such nonsensical notions, because I had no idea what black triangles were, no knowledge of the Bucks County Wave in 2008, and no knowledge of prior black triangle waves such as the Belgium wave in 1989, where the Belgium airforce scrambled F16's to intercept until well after the fact, and no pre-existing "true believer" biases as it was a topic that I simply devoted zero bandwith to.

And I would counter this baseless claim of "mass hysteria" that those who have witnessed these things (many, many people over many, many years) all describing the same thing, are simply -- like me, describing exactly what they encountered free from "hysteria", mass or otherwise.

I agree with you, that the notion of mass hysteria is a cheap cop-out.

The fact is that there are things in this world or realm that we have no answers to, or we the common hoi-polloi are not made privy to, like top secret man made high technology.

Some folks want to feel comfortable and want to believe everything has a scientific explanation and if there is not one then it is a hoax or a delusion. And heads of governments around the world are honest and forthcoming on everything, on any subject, to their citizens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Gt4crkqWk
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Old 06-28-2018   #45
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Okay Nick, here's a photo I took in the early 1970s in Albuquerque. Vivitar 110 camera with color negative film.

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Old 06-28-2018   #46
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The world is woefully unprepared for actual visitation..
We cant even get along with ourselves..
From the information I've run across..they are sending ufos (mostly robots) here to see whats up...scientific exploration...much like we are beginning to do on Mars etc..no need to risk a live crew..or biological contamination..as their microbes..could wipe this planets life forms completely out as there would be no natural defenses..and visa versa..
Some are more interested in the oceans as they are life forms based on water..some in the air ..some on land..
About 90% of "alien" encounters..esp at night...are just astral dreams..created by the dreamer in sleep..hence the universal big eyed small formless blob like bodies..they see..
The other 10%...well...that bears more looking into..
And most of the "aliens"..are not humanoid based..at all..and might not even be recognized as sentient..as we cant even communicate with whales and dolphins..the other sentient species..on this world..
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Old 06-28-2018   #47
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
The notion of "mass hysteria" is a ridiculous one. Those who are so quick to ask, "where's you're evidence?" (as they ignore the evidence) are quick to claim "mass hysteria" without evidence.

In my case it wasn't mass hysteria -- and in fact refutes such nonsensical notions, because I had no idea what black triangles were, no knowledge of the Bucks County Wave in 2008, and no knowledge of prior black triangle waves such as the Belgium wave in 1989, where the Belgium airforce scrambled F16's to intercept until well after the fact, and no pre-existing "true believer" biases as it was a topic that I simply devoted zero bandwith to.

And I would counter this baseless claim of "mass hysteria" that those who have witnessed these things (many, many people over many, many years) all describing the same thing, are simply -- like me, describing exactly what they encountered free from "hysteria", mass or otherwise.
Yes, you said all that before. But you failed to address any of the questions I asked. I assume this means you are unable to answer them, because you did exactly as I predicted: saw something weird, shouted, “aliens!”, and looked no further for an answer. An answer that wouldn’t be exciting or make you feel as though you had witnessed anything special.

It’s religion, pure and simple, and just as daft.
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Old 06-28-2018   #48
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Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
From the information I've run across..they are sending ufos (mostly robots) here to see whats up...scientific exploration...much like we are beginning to do on Mars etc..no need to risk a live crew..or biological contamination..as their microbes..could wipe this planets life forms completely out as there would be no natural defenses..and visa versa..
Some are more interested in the oceans as they are life forms based on water..some in the air ..some on land..
That's very specific information, so you must have some excellent and highly detailed evidence. Please post it so we can all have a look.
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Old 06-28-2018   #49
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Let em explain to you what these things are, probably over several posts. This issue I have is that I have studied the most relevant sightings and encounters for 10 years. Most who I discuss this topic with are very ignorant of the subject, relying on "speed of light" arguments they vaguely remember from their HS physics teacher. There is also a great deal of noise in this signal-to-noise ratio (long since debunked cases and assorted hoaxes), which must be filtered, and most don't bother to do. There are many, many "obvious" cases of encounters of UFOs, though they do constitute a small percentage of possibly UFO encounters.

The "smoking gun" UFO case is without question the declassified 2004 Nimitz case that came to light last December. Lt Commander Fravor, the pilot of the fighter jet has gone on media, bravely, many times to state what he video'd and tracked was under intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin. I will not go into the details of this case, but this "Tic Tak"-shaped UFO was observed sporadically for several weeks by the crew of the Nimitz in '04. When the Princeton was nearby doing training maneuvers, and the UFO was spotted again, two fighters were dispatched from the Princeton to investigate, one piloted by Lt Cmdr Fraver. The pilot of the other figthter corroboates Fraver's account, but has been less accessible to the media. Fraver has been outspoken -- seemingly to warn us they're here -- and they most definitely are, have been. This is a recent incident with video, radar, and multiple high credibility witnesses. It happened. And it was released from the vaults of an above top secret Pentagon program to study the phenomenon, a story the New York Times broke last December. The director of that program, Luis Elizando, stated on the record in several televised interviews, "My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone". Incidentally, this is the biggest story in human history. The mass denial (not "hysteria" -- mass "denial") of it is a fascinating trait of human psychology.

They absolutely exist and are monitoring earth. Likely, they monitor all pre-singularity break-away species like man. These species are likely machine "life" and the "UFOs" are not vehicles with "little green men" but the "aliens" themselves. Some thinkers on this topic argue that most intelligent life in the universe is not biological, but has long since shed its frail and short-lived biological substrate and that "biological man" is merely a transitional species. When "we" achieve the technological singularity ("singularity" being a point past which we can not conceive...) through the advent of "recursively self-improving, self-programming conscious general artificial intelligence", this new life form we spawn will either co-exist with us, destroy us (the "hard take-off" scenario), or we ourselves will somehow merge with it. This follows an evolutionary pattern all intelligent species undergo. Our "ape brains" have limits to what we can explain, predict, and control of the matter, energy, and forces in the universe. It can take us so far as a rudimentary understanding of physics, the ability to split the atom, and the ability to create computers. Then, the computers take over.

We are on the cusp of recursively improving self-programming computers -- 25, 50, 100 years away -- a blink of an eye on a historical timescale. These "UFOs" are likely post-technological "Singularity" machine life, and the most commonplace (super) intelligent lifeforms in the universe. We are in our biological "pre-singularity" transitional phase but on our way there now with rapid advances in "narrow AI" (self-driving cars, AlphaGo!) with huge research dollars and resources devoted towards developing "general AI". If one believes -- and there is solid logical basis for such beliefs, that such beings constitute the majority of intelligent life in te universe, then these naively so-called "UFOs" are very common throughout the galaxy and may (because they're immortal or nearly immortal) outnumber biological life by orders of magnitude, having achieved Singularity (and subsequently immortality) long ago in their evolution.

How do they get here? Your HS physics instructor had no clue. Our best physcists have no clue. Why? Such problems transcend the limits our our puny meat-based ape-brains. But such problems do not exceed the limits (if there even is a limit) of conscious, intelligent machine life (the "aliens") or possibly even our very own next generation AI capabilities:

The most complex problem in physics could be solved by machines with brains
https://qz.com/897033/applying-machi...ntum-computer/
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Old 06-28-2018   #50
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Originally Posted by NickTrop View Post
Let em explain to you what these things are, probably over several posts. This issue I have is that I have studied the most relevant sightings and encounters for 10 years. Most who I discuss this topic with are very ignorant of the subject, relying on "speed of light" arguments they vaguely remember from their HS physics teacher. There is also a great deal of noise in this signal-to-noise ratio, which must be filtered, and most don't bother to do. There are many, many "obvious" cases. The "smoking gun" is the declassified 2004 Nimitz case. Lt Commander Fravor, the pilot of the fighter jet has gone on media, bravely, many times to state what he video'd and tracked was under intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin. I will not go into the details of this case, but this "Tic Tak"-shaped UFO was observed sporadically for several weeks by the crew of the Nimitz in '04. When the Princeton was nearby doing training maneuvers, and the UFO was spotted again, two fighters were dispatched from the Nimitz to investigate, one piloted by Lt Cmdr Fraver. The pilot of the other figthter corroboates Fraver's account, but has been less accessible to the media. Fraver has been outspoken -- seemingly to warn us they're here -- and they most definitely are, have been. This is a recent incident with video, radar, and multiple high credibility witnesses. It happened. And it was released from the vaults of a Pentagon program to study the phenomenon. The director of that program, Luis Elizando, stated on the record in several televised interviews, "My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone".

They absolutely exist and are monitoring earth. Likely, they monitor all pre-singularity break-away species like man. These species are likely machine "life" and the "UFOs" are not vehicles with "little green men" but the "aliens" themselves. Some thinkers on this topic argue that most intelligent life in the universe is not biological, but has long since shed its frail and short-lived biological substrate and that "biological man" is merely a transitional species.

We are on the cusp of recursively improving self-programming computers. These are post-technological "Singularity" with rapid advances in "narrow AI" (self-driving cars) with huge research dollars and resources devoted to "general AI".

How do they get here? Your HS physics instructor had no clue. Our best physcists have no clue? Why? It transcends the capabilities our our puny ape-brains. But not our next generation AI capabilities:

The most complex problem in physics could be solved by machines with brains
https://qz.com/897033/applying-machi...ntum-computer/
I respect the fact you have spent a huge amount of time over a decade researching UFO sightings, but two questions:

1. Did you spend an equal amount of time researching the myriad of things you could have seen that were completely terrestrial?

2. Do you feel your studies were biased towards believing in alien life on Earth due to your unexplained encounter? If so, that bias will have completely ruined any scientific rigour you may have had towards the subject.

I think it's time to stop posting on this thread. I've had a look a few of the YouTube channels posted above and frankly, they're embarrassing.
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Old 06-28-2018   #51
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Fujilove you wanted to have answers, though you had not asked me directly after all it was me who had offered photos showing unidentified, light emitting moving objects.
therefore let me answer, here you go:

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And what did you conclude after viewing them from different angles and distances? How large were they, for instance? What did the police, government, air traffic control etc. have to say when you reported it?
the fireballs had been moving at distances of between 20 to 50 meters from me. I'd judge their diameter to have been about 20cm.
Did not report to any authorities.

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What sort of terrain was it over? Any buildings nearby? Is it a populated or remote area? Any constructions going on that could have created that sort of shape in the sky (such as huge pieces of material stretched out with wires).
mostly flat ricefield and trees on a ledge to one side. Next house about 300 meter distance. There had been not any electrical lights visable anywhere as turning on electrical lights during Nyepi night is prohibited

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Did you speak to the local meteorologists? Did you contact local universities to check if they had been running any experiments? Ditto research establishments?
No. During Nyepi night nobody is allowed to roam in the open. Not any official study would get a permission to do any such research during Nyepi night.

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Did you speak to the FAA, aircraft manufacturers, or even aircraft recognition experts and try to find out whether there are aircraft that look like the ones you saw from certain angles? Some balloons are very odd shapes, for instance.
no, and not really applicable for my sightings anyway

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Did you contact the local news? If so, who else saw them?
no, what for? I had zero interest in doing that

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Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
I'm asking all these questions because I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark here and bet you didn't bust a gut and spend any real time chasing up all the avenues to check what earthly phenomenon you witnessed. If I had to guess, I'd bet that you instead thought, 'Aliens!', and just went off right down that track.
no, very much to the contrary. I never have and still don't think of aliens. While witnessing I tried to stay calm and go through any plausible explanation that I could think of but none checked. However that did not make me come up with speculative explanations that I believe in or would try to convince others of. I witnessed the fact and share it with anyone interested, that's all. I have zero interest to try to convince anyone of the existance of these unexplainable fireballs. Generally I rather side with sceptics.

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Am I close to the truth, or way off the mark?
you are completely off the mark!!

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Originally Posted by FujiLove View Post
(This is the point at which you say I'm way off the mark, and you exhausted every avenue of possibility. Right? But we both know that unless you're a high ranking military official with access to the Pentagon's list of experimental aircraft flights, all the aerospace manufacturer's project plans, an expert meteorologist, have a PhD in fluid dynamics etc. etc. you couldn't possibly conclude that what you saw was 'alien')
I don't see which explanation any of these specialist could come up with that would sound credible to me.

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What I've noticed is that UFO sightings are a lot like religion:

"I experienced something I don't understand, therefore: GOD"

"I experienced something I don't understand, therefore: ALIENS"

All it 'proves' is that the observer is seeing something they don't understand. It's nothing more than the human condition at work. You're seeing what you want to see. As a species we love to see more than there really is and apply our own biases and theories (faces in abstract patterns, creatures rising out of the craggy shapes of volcanic lava etc.)
I never mentioned God, Aliens or anything of that kind. I had zero expectations in any of these directions, never had given aliens much thought and don't have any fixed idea about them existing or not. I don't like nor do speculations, but I do take for real what I witness.
While witnessing I had gathered all my mental facilities trying to find an explanation for the phenomenon. I could not find any. What remains is that very clearly I had been observing light emitting balls of about 20cm in diameter flying freely around the ricefield and palm trees at an altitudes in between half a meter to 10 meters off the gound. Since there had been no possible explanations I now must refer to them as unidentified, light emitting balls or also unidentified flying objects.

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Bear in mind that we live on a planet where millions of people believe that Mother Teresa performed actual miracles and cured people of cancers. They are able to believe this despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They WANT to believe a magic amulet healed a woman's tumour (presumably via the power of god), rather than the boring reality of all the chemotherapy she was receiving.

Show me some good, hard scientific evidence and I'll be as excited as you about the discovery of aliens here on earth. But I've not seen the tiniest scrap of real evidence that wouldn't get laughed out of the lab. Everything is either hearsay or fuzzy video of lights (that, funnily enough, I could create in my back garden).

And finally, don't forget this simple but sad fact: people just make things up. They make things up because they want to feel special, and sometimes because they have mental conditions which cause a compulsion to lie. Others have compulsions to agree with others, to fit in with the group, and these compulsions sometimes extend to pretending to have had the same experiences. Some people read and see things in movies and convince themselves they saw the same thing when they were children. The reality is nothing exists but their own thoughts.

I'm not saying the above applies to you, or this case, but I'm convinced it is a significant factor with UFO sightings in general. I wonder how many of the 'hundreds of Belgians' who witnessed the triangles would turn out to have personality disorders if tested? I'd bet it would be significantly higher than the general public.
I am not a believer nor do I speculate. Your points above aim at dismantling the credibility of a witness. You might view me either as being a fraud or crazy. I don't care nor would try to convince you of the contrary.
I simply try to expound truthfully what I witnessed but could not care less who believes what when reading my report and viewing the photos.
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Old 06-28-2018   #52
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I am not a believer nor do I speculate. I simply report truthfully what I have witnessed. I hardly can relate to your points above that aim at dismantling the credibility of a witness. Of course you may view me is being crazy. I don't care nor would try to convince you of the contrary

Andreas I share this with you.

I did not want to see something.
Was not looking for it.
I did not previously have an interest nor do I now seek more knowledge of phenomenon.
It happened and I don't see any reason not to tell.
Fujilove seems to believe that if one can not explain something they experience, that it did not happen.
Healthy skepticism is good. Rejection of all anecdotes is foolish.
Get over it! Not everything will be explained in our lifetimes.
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Old 06-28-2018   #53
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Andy yes, I am 100% with you, feel and think exactly the same
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Old 06-28-2018   #54
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If you are unfamiliar with the '04 Nimitz case, and the above top secret black money-funded $22M Pentagon program tasked specifically with studying the UFO phenomenon, here is Navy fighter pilor, Lt Cmdr Fraver's, brave account in an interview with (a surprisingly "okay") Tucker Carlson on Fox . He was on the news many times since then essentially saying the same things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHwmWnY4P1w
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Old 06-28-2018   #55
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the fireballs had been moving at distances of between 20 to 50 meters from me. I'd judge their diameter to have been about 20cm.
Did not report to any authorities.

The distance is the key point here. In the first pic, they move in front of the palm trees, which are obviously just a few meters away (you write it was a 28 mm lens). It's easy to misjudge the distance of an object of unknown size, especially at night, escpeeeecially if it's visible only intermittently. Ask people who have been at sea at night, trying to avoid collision with other ships. Sometimes near impossible to tell distances. As one needs distance to know size or the other way around, that case is pretty clear. You overestimated their size based on overestimating the distance. Still large for bugs based on that it was behind the palm tree in the first pic, the size of which I don't know, so probably a few meters away. But the stars look pretty large in the pics, which must be due to pixels overflowing or some lens characteristic, that would make the trail in the (unfocused) foreground larger as well. So fireflies is a very plausible explanation. Is it so hard to believe that our senses are not always that reliable?

I don't want to go into UFOs, I'll just say it ties into the debate that's been going on in epistemology since ancient times: Are our senses or is reason to be trusted more? The UFO believers seem to be on the senses side. I recommend them to look into psychology research that has shown a lot of surprising things about the human mind. It's easy for us to remember things very differently from objective reality. We look for patterns. Of course it's hard once you have seen something and made sense of it... Of course entirely relying on reason, always based on what's already known, doesn't work either, we'll ignore new things that happen. But a bit of inertia is good. I'd rather be late to welcome the Reptilians or Greys when they actually come than get up on countless false alarms.

Last edited by retinax : 06-28-2018 at 09:47. Reason: errors and another thought
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Old 06-28-2018   #56
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I respect the fact you have spent a huge amount of time over a decade researching UFO sightings, but two questions:

1. Did you spend an equal amount of time researching the myriad of things you could have seen that were completely terrestrial?

2. Do you feel your studies were biased towards believing in alien life on Earth due to your unexplained encounter? If so, that bias will have completely ruined any scientific rigour you may have had towards the subject.

I think it's time to stop posting on this thread. I've had a look a few of the YouTube channels posted above and frankly, they're embarrassing.
I have a fairly intense interest in the topic. However, I remain level-headed. I am, however, convinced that they exist and "monitor" earth. I have explained what "I" speculate them to be.

This is not "science", really, and I laugh at such notions. "As if" you could put a UFO in a test tube and apply the rigors of the scientific method to it. This is detective work. Like musings about the "multiverse" and many other advanced topics in physics... the means through which to test and quantify such hypothesis eludes us... We are left, therefore, with only reasoned speculation.

We can only, in an unbiased manner, look at the evidence of "some" cases, look at the preponderance of evidence overall mostly through sober eyewitness testimony (such as my own) which is vast, and draw rational conclusions based on that.

And the conclusion I have reached is that we are in our technological, pre-Singularity infancy. But many, many other intelligent species are post-Singularity and what eludes our puny ape-brains does not elude machine intelligence. That these events ("alien visitation") are fairly UNremarkable on a universal scale, though hard for us to fathom.

But one only has to look at where we are now (for example computers, space travel) and project.
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Old 06-28-2018   #57
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Haven´t seen one. Don´t deny or believe, but this thread reminded me of this recent photo of mine

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Old 06-28-2018   #58
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After reviewing this entire thread all I have to add is;

Ack....ack ack ack......ack-ack...ACK!
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Old 06-28-2018   #59
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The Gulf Breeze Sightings of UFO are well known in the UFO literature. We live very close to Gulf Breeze! Should I start looking for UFO's there?
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Old 06-28-2018   #60
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Some people like to keep their heads in the sand. What Nick says is a lot of speculation. We do know there have been things flying around for a long time that are inexplicable, and there are no answers as to a natural phenomena with our understanding of atmosphere and weather, evolutionary biology, photography nor anything else.

Fujilove presents himself as some sort of logical science guy but his beliefs and those like him are actually more like religious beliefs. I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while. The earth is like one data point on a graph and you can't tell squat from that. His questions are all just obfuscation and without having the necessary technology to prove this stuff in a lab or do really meaningful scientific analysis until now (with our advancement of imaging) his derision is very small minded.

I was about to suggest he take a walk anyway. People have had their laughs, so if you have any pics to post of UFOs or something meaningful to add to the discussion I expect your posts are welcome here. This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
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Old 06-29-2018   #61
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Some people like to keep their heads in the sand. What Nick says is a lot of speculation. We do know there have been things flying around for a long time that are inexplicable, and there are no answers as to a natural phenomena with our understanding of atmosphere and weather, evolutionary biology, photography nor anything else.

Fujilove presents himself as some sort of logical science guy but his beliefs and those like him are actually more like religious beliefs. I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while. The earth is like one data point on a graph and you can't tell squat from that. His questions are all just obfuscation and without having the necessary technology to prove this stuff in a lab or do really meaningful scientific analysis until now (with our advancement of imaging) his derision is very small minded.

I was about to suggest he take a walk anyway. People have had their laughs, so if you have any pics to post of UFOs or something meaningful to add to the discussion I expect your posts are welcome here. This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
Wow. A small object moving fast in a straight line over the sea in an area where military activity is taking place. It's not showing signs of engine heat or, I presume, responding to radio.

Fast forward 30 seconds to the bit of video that's not been shared and you'll probably hear the controller confirm that a destroyer fired a shell or ballistic missile.

As an aside: US military radio procedure is extremely poor and undisciplined these days, don't you think?
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Old 06-29-2018   #62
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Fujilove presents himself as some sort of logical science guy but his beliefs and those like him are actually more like religious beliefs. I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while. The earth is like one data point on a graph and you can't tell squat from that. His questions are all just obfuscation and without having the necessary technology to prove this stuff in a lab or do really meaningful scientific analysis until now (with our advancement of imaging) his derision is very small minded.

I was about to suggest he take a walk anyway. People have had their laughs, so if you have any pics to post of UFOs or something meaningful to add to the discussion I expect your posts are welcome here. This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
Well, I am scientifically trained, so yes a bit of a 'science guy'. I like to apply a scientific approach to things like this, and find it laughable how you can dismiss that sort of approach as a 'religious belief'. It's the same attitude that recently brought us the anti vax idiots, and so many others who drag our lives backwards. You clearly fail to see the irony in being so interested in massively advanced lifeforms, and yet you're dismissing the scientific approach which would undoubtedly have driven their development over the millennia. Doh.

By the way, I had another poke around that website you posted and I think I may have tracked down the No.1 motivation behind it. Unsurprisingly it again suggests 'UFO studies' are like religion...

Top right of the website: 'INVEST NOW'
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Old 06-29-2018   #63
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What Nick says is a lot of speculation. [...] I wrote a long post about this earlier and lost it because this damn website logs me out after a little while.

https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
1. Since we have been unable to capture a UFO (or have we?), but have ample data points -- sufficient credible and corrobated eyewitness testimony to send a man to be executed in a court of law regarding their existence, all we are left with is speculation. ... the same way scientists relying on equations "speculate" we live in a multiverse but lack the means to apply the scientific method to their hypothesis.

2. Tick the checkbox (below your name after you sign-in) and you will remain logged-in to RFF.
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Old 06-29-2018   #64
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I This video was recently released and I saw it for the 1st time today. The action starts 1:25sec into it.
https://coi.tothestarsacademy.com/2015-go-fast-footage
Yes. This is the 2004 Nitiz case I referenced in several posts as "the smoking gun". The gobsmacked Navy pilot Lt Cmd Fraver heard in the audio was the pilot of the F16 (not the aperture setting, the military jet...) was on TV and did multiple interviews bravely concluding that the object he and a second F16 were tracking was of intelligent control and not of terrestrial origin -- capable of maneuvers way beyond anything in the inventory of any nation on earth. The second F16 pilot corroborates and agrees with Fraver's assessment but has been less visible in the media, doing only a couple interviews.

The backstory, broken by the New York Times last December, is even more intriguing. Short synopsis -- the Nimitz had observed a "tick tak" shaped object in its vicinity over several weeks, hovering above the water, looking unlike any known aerial tech capable of incredible speed and gravity defying maneuvers. It was observed by all or most of the crew of the ship.The object was also tracked on radar.

When the Princeton was in the area doing training exercises and the "tick tack" UFO was observed again by the Nimitz, they requested the Princeton scramble two F16s to investigate. (Two things, scrambling military jets is not a little deal. Secondly, this is not the first time military jets have been scrambled to investigate UFOs - the 1952 Washington flap, 1976 UFO over Tehran, and 1989 Belgium black triangles are a few others that come to mind...) The classified audio and high-tech infrared video is what was released last December (and what you posted), held by an above top secret Pentagon program with a 22 million dollar bugget charged with studying the UFO phenomenon. The director of the Pentagon's secret "Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, Luis Elizondo, likewise, was interviewed last winter many times on TV boldly stating outright that the earth is being visited by non terrestrial entities/tech. He had access to far more evidence and information during his tenure overseeing the above top secret, black money-funded Pentagon UFO program, the majority of which is still (and will likely remain) classified.

This is NOT a little deal. It is the biggest story in human history. Yet? We'd rather focus on Trump's tweets...


Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/u...arry-reid.html

Asked what he (Lt Cmdr Fraver) believes it was, 13 years later, he was unequivocal.
“Something not from the Earth,” he said.
Former Navy pilot describes UFO encounter studied by secret Pentagon program
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f6a5de7933c9
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Old 06-29-2018   #65
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made lite of

Ever since I read the U.S. Air Force Project: Blue Book, I have watched the skies for these phenomenon but so far have not seen any. Does that negate the countless sightings of highly trained professionals who placed their careers in jeopardy by reporting their experiences? Does this include the number of creditable witness and photographic evidence that the Air Force labeled as unexplained? I do not have an answer for those who doubt, neither did Christopher Columbus before he proved doubters wrong. As for me, I will continue to enjoy the efforts of those who push against the darkness that exist in the minds of men while keeping one eye on the sky. Wishing you all good light and fair winds...
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Old 06-29-2018   #66
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The distance is the key point here. In the first pic, they move in front of the palm trees, which are obviously just a few meters away (you write it was a 28 mm lens). It's easy to misjudge the distance of an object of unknown size, especially at night, escpeeeecially if it's visible only intermittently.


Ask people who have been at sea at night, trying to avoid collision with other ships. Sometimes near impossible to tell distances. As one needs distance to know size or the other way around, that case is pretty clear. You overestimated their size based on overestimating the distance. Still large for bugs based on that it was behind the palm tree in the first pic, the size of which I don't know, so probably a few meters away. But the stars look pretty large in the pics, which must be due to pixels overflowing or some lens characteristic, that would make the trail in the (unfocused) foreground larger as well. So fireflies is a very plausible explanation. Is it so hard to believe that our senses are not always that reliable?
My estimation that the moving, light emiting objects had a diameter of about 20cm and that they moved at a distance of 20 to 50 meter are NOT based on the photos seen above. Capturing of these lights happenend unintentionally, by accident.

My estimations are based on the viewing of the lightballs from the seconds floor, that is from about 4 meter off the ground and the ricefield, distance of the moving lights from the house had been between about 7 to 30 meter. Lights moved mostly low, sometimes just at a half to 1 meter height over the ricefield and in between palm trees up to about 5 to 10 meters high, again at distances starting from less than 10 meters from point of observation.

From the second floor looking down into the ricefield and streight or lightly up into the crowns of nearby palm trees makes estimation of distances rather easy, even verifyable. Actually I even did measure some distances the next day but I did not note them down. Distances I have given here are conservative, closest fireball that made me estimate it's diameter of about 20cm must have been rather less, not more than 10 meter away from me.

While witnessing I tried to be rational and the explanation of fireflies had been the most logical one that came up. I tried hard to view these lights as fireflies but that was not possible.

I understand that my observations, for someone who wants scientific proof, are irrelevant. I don't want to convince anyone, nor do I care much. Possibly I may add more later regarding human mind and perception.
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Old 06-29-2018   #67
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I once asked the late I. J. Good (Probability Professor and Enigma code breaker at Bletchley Park in WWII) about UFO and the chances of the existence of life "out there". He checked in his library first, and then he told me that he had 4 articles on it (in 1987). The probability = 1/2. We don't know if they exist and we don't know if they don't exist out there. This is based on Bayesian probability theory and it is not a "flip a coin" result

Professor Irving J. Good played a vital role in the uncoding of the Enigma during WWII, and the outcome of the Battle of Normandy.
I was lucky to have met such Professors.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/o...t-1684506.html
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Old 06-29-2018   #68
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We have to disengage from the "My Favorite Martian"/Hollywood notion of "aliens" and understand what these things are... This is something we're on the cusp of on a historical timescale and is likely (imo) the reason for their interest in us. And if you're tuned in to the topic of artificial intelligence (AI) tremendous RD money is being invested in both narrow AI (self-driving cars), and "general" AI (computers with minds like humans). I subscribe to the notion that "man" is a transitional species and the Omega of biological evolution. "We" are a break-away species, and as advanced as organic evolution can take us from an intelligence stand-point. Further, both biological life and evolution follows a tight predictable pattern that is common place throughout the universe. This biological evolutionary pattern eventually results in a break-away "smart communicative ape" species, that eventually sheds its frail biolgical substrate that is environment dependent and undergos a metamorphosis to (environment independent, does not have to kill to subsist, disease-free, death-free) machine life once it becomes technologically capable. The "tic tac" is such an "organism".

"If an extraterrestrial species becomes advanced enough to send signals Earthlings can pick up, it will likely shed its traditional biological trappings and become a form of machine intelligence in rather short order..."


Electronic E.T.: Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines
https://www.space.com/34713-intellig...ti-search.html
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Old 06-29-2018   #69
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Here's one that has been, uh, floating around for a while ...

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Old 06-29-2018   #70
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We have to disengage from the "My Favorite Martian"/Hollywood notion of "aliens" and understand what these things are... This is something we're on the cusp of on a historical timescale and is likely (imo) the reason for their interest in us. And if you're tuned in to the topic of artificial intelligence (AI) tremendous RD money is being invested in both narrow AI (self-driving cars), and "general" AI (computers with minds like humans). I subscribe to the notion that "man" is a transitional species and the Omega of biological evolution. "We" are a break-away species, and as advanced as organic evolution can take us from an intelligence stand-point. Further, both biological life and evolution follows a tight predictable pattern that is common place throughout the universe. This biological evolutionary pattern eventually results in a break-away "smart communicative ape" species, that eventually sheds its frail biolgical substrate that is environment dependent and undergos a metamorphosis to (environment independent, does not have to kill to subsist, disease-free, death-free) machine life once it becomes technologically capable. The "tic tac" is such an "organism".

"If an extraterrestrial species becomes advanced enough to send signals Earthlings can pick up, it will likely shed its traditional biological trappings and become a form of machine intelligence in rather short order..."


Electronic E.T.: Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines
https://www.space.com/34713-intellig...ti-search.html
This line of thinking is no less subjective than believing an alien life form sits in a chair and eats with a fork and knife like us.
Why should it be assumed that another life form would need computers to do it’’s thinking.
Computer use and machines may be a purely human “trait”.
Other intelligent life may not have a need to go down the path of machine use… why should we assume anything of the sort?
Again, I find this a highly subjective line of thinking.
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Old 06-29-2018   #71
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This line of thinking is no less subjective than believing an alien life form sits in a chair and eats with a fork and knife like us.
Why should it be assumed that another life form would need computers to do it’’s thinking.
Computer use and machines may be a purely human “trait”.
Other intelligent life may not have a need to go down the path of machine use… why should we assume anything of the sort?
Again, I find this a highly subjective line of thinking.
It depends on how "tight" the patterns of evolution are. I think evolution occurs largely "on rails" with planets in the Goldilocks zone. Earth-like conditions must be present, the planet of a certain mass, certain temp range, certain of water and chemical content etc... it will spark very "earth-like" single cell organisms and eventually very "earth-like" creatures, following a strict and predictable pattern of technological development.

Those earth-like creatures will be not too different from "us" and have earthly counterparts. You will likely find a mouse, a sparrow, and a roach (all)-like creatures on distant planets. I say this because "life" is really a byproduct of physical laws which do not vary. Therefore the "life" produced by those physical laws, when the proper conditions are present to bring it forth persist between fairly narrow but commonplace parameters, will follow very specific patterns resulting in life forms resembling our own. Further, if you believe the accounts of those who claim to have seen extraterrestrials, they are of the bipedal "Star Trek-y" variety (look like us in the main -- maybe with pointy ears like Spock or short, bug-eyed and gray...) not bizarre squid-like creatures of the film Contact.

I subscribe to the notion that "life" -- wherever it may exist in the universe, follows a very tight pattern that does not vary much from life-bearing planet to life-bearing planet. Likewise, whatever breakaway species that develops on distant planets follows a "tight" pattern of technological development culminating in a metamorphosis to machine life as the endpoint of a truly universal evolutionary pattern where...

Sentient life is not dependent on eating other biological organisms, does not "die", does not "get sick", and can exist in virtually any environment -- including space. Generation after generation the endpoint of Darwinism is to maximize sentience (of one of its species) and achieve immortality at the individual "life unit" level of one of its species. The goal of evolution -- achieved through natural selection and Darwinism, is the creation of super-sentient conscious life forms that are not dependent on its planetary origins to subsist, since those planetary origins and/or the conditions present to sustain the life it spawned are temporal.

And what do we see now? Reaching out to space. Development of AI. We are, as a species, akin to ants building an anthill. Doing what we are pre-programmed by external forces (like said ants) to do, and largely unaware of our end goal: immortality and super-sentience. This can not be achieved via biological substrate. A metamorphosis must occur. The process of this consciousness transference from biology-based to machine based sentience, likewise, follows a strict pattern -- math, science, electricity, discovery of the quantum, nuclear capabilities, computing technology using the Von Neumann model, space flight etc. culminating in the shedding of our frail enviornment-dependent, "death prone" biological substrate

... and this has occurred, throughout the galaxy, universe as the product of an unerring pattern -- as unerring as "gravity", I posit. We are in no way unique, but are following a strict pre-ordained pattern in the wake of billions or trillions of high-sentient "break-away" life forms that have preceded us in the universe.
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Old 06-29-2018   #72
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We have to disengage from the "My Favorite Martian"/Hollywood notion of "aliens" and understand what these things are... This is something we're on the cusp of on a historical timescale and is likely (imo) the reason for their interest in us. And if you're tuned in to the topic of artificial intelligence (AI) tremendous RD money is being invested in both narrow AI (self-driving cars), and "general" AI (computers with minds like humans). I subscribe to the notion that "man" is a transitional species and the Omega of biological evolution. "We" are a break-away species, and as advanced as organic evolution can take us from an intelligence stand-point. Further, both biological life and evolution follows a tight predictable pattern that is common place throughout the universe. This biological evolutionary pattern eventually results in a break-away "smart communicative ape" species, that eventually sheds its frail biolgical substrate that is environment dependent and undergos a metamorphosis to (environment independent, does not have to kill to subsist, disease-free, death-free) machine life once it becomes technologically capable. The "tic tac" is such an "organism".

"If an extraterrestrial species becomes advanced enough to send signals Earthlings can pick up, it will likely shed its traditional biological trappings and become a form of machine intelligence in rather short order..."


Electronic E.T.: Intelligent Aliens Are Likely Machines
https://www.space.com/34713-intellig...ti-search.html
Look at how much human intelligence has advanced over the past ten thousand years. I’ve never heard any biologist suggest that evolution couldn’t continue, or even accelerate, for the next ten thousand and beyond. So what’s your idea that we have hit a biological limit as a species based upon? What studies have you read which suggest that? (Peer reviewed journals only please). Or again, is it empty speculation that you’re spreading as ‘fact’ on the Internet?
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Old 06-29-2018   #73
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The issue of life / consciousness in relation to biological vs. machine is one of timescale. If any kind of intelligent entity wanted to send probes or explore the universe at large, one must grapple with the real issue of the speed of light barrier. Bringing humans even to the closest star using technology right now or on the cusp of possibility would already take several generations of humans living their life on said ship. Even with extreme speed and time dilation from the observer's point of view it is a challenge.

If not actual machine life, one could imagine probes with some kind of advanced quantum entanglement communication device allowing faster-than-light transmissions, sent here using subluminal but very fast propulsion devices (small size would be very helpful here). Actual biological life will require some serious tech to transport. Perhaps something like the Alcubierre Drive is possible, but the challenges seem immense. Another cool possibility is the Kugelblitz drive that uses a mini black hole for propulsion with Hawking Radiation. Oftentimes the challenge is slowing down at your destination. We would likely detect these kind of things slowing down into our solar system!
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Old 06-29-2018   #74
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To those who think we only see UFO's because we want to, Can you explain this:

I want to see Rachel Riley in her nuddies but it's never happened.

Why?
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Old 06-29-2018   #75
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The Belgian incident occurred over one of the busiest routes for commercial aviation in the world: the Eastern approach to the UK's busiest airports. It's covered by so much radar that you can't fly a kite without a controller seeing you. So where's all the radar footage of these massive aircraft?
1. Perhaps you should direct this question to the Belgium airforce who scrambled two fighters to investigate them (and the pilot who has gone on record many times to claim what he was tracking was not from earth -- just like Lt Cmdr Fraver claimed) Because -- ya know, a nation's military just scrambles jets to investigate stuff -- "just because"...

2. If a technology (or "entity") is capable of interstellar travel, or warping space-time, or otherwise getting from a "point-a to point-b" that are light-years apart, which they are, do you not think they'd be able to spoof our comparatively crude 20th-century earthly radar tech? They show up on radar when they feel like it, for reasons known only to them...

3. You are ignorant of the topic -- quite emotional. Here's a good book by a very rational, sober investigator -- it's well-researched and well-written. Highly recommended.

"For years, serious researchers have known that triangular-shaped UFOs are one of the most common types observed. The phenomenon has sparked intense debate among many and excited the imagination of many others. But until now, there has never been a book-length treatment of this fascinating subject.

Finally, we have one. David Marler has provided a comprehensive analysis of “the triangles.” He has collected, collated, and analyzed hundreds of reports. In the process, he has created a detailed profile of these objects and written a rich narrative of their history.

Marler is well-suited to the task, having at his disposal an enormous collection of newspaper archives, declassified military reports, UFO books and journals, and the transcripts of many first-hand interviews he has conducted. He has also received input from many prominent individuals from within the military, FAA, Aerospace, and UFO research field. "

You can read this for free with Kindle Unlimited. Get a free trial. Won't cost you a dime.

https://www.amazon.com/Triangular-UF...+triangle+UFOs
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Old 06-29-2018   #76
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The spirit of Art Bell lives on

But I did see a "UFO" and incredibly, it was through a 4" refracting telescope! It was pure luck that I happened to have the telescope set up at dusk, and IIRC I was wanting to look at the planet Venus. It was then that I noticed a very bright object moving across the sky, and as my telescope was sitting atop at alt-az mount, it was easy for me to manually track. It seemed to be completely silent, I could discern no shape nor any blinking lights.

I asked about it on an astronomy site, and consensus was that I had likely seen a space shuttle, which struck me as being really cool.
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Old 06-29-2018   #77
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According to my EXIF:

D800, 14-24mm @ f/3.5, 30s exposure, ISO 1600.

I was taking a long exposure series, to be combined later, and you can see this object come into frame, then turn and go back out of the frame. Nothing erratic in its flight but I also captured other planes which clearly have the typical blinking light and wing lights and much higher in the sky. Comparatively this light was probably 100x brighter than the planes (likely commercial). I didn't hear a sound as it came by.

In fact here is the entire sequence layered on top of each other. Three frames, so about 1.5 minutes. Just a quick layering w/ no edits hence the slight difference in color/shadow detail:


Rocket launch with bright spot being the separation of a booster stage?
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Old 06-29-2018   #78
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Life forms have many variables..
Language is subjective as well as thought..
To understand these variations we need to throw out all our "human" thought patterns..and use our minds to imagine what they may actually be..instead of imposing our "human" realities upon them..and painting them up the way we think they should be..
We are simian based..the whales and dolphins..are cetacean based..and these sentient beings occupy a space on this world as important as humans do..but w/o the need for machines..
Both species are sentient and have 'souls"..that incur karma..and bring them back and back again and again..until the lessons have been learned..
Humans are sight based..and Whales..sound based..
"Aliens"..may not be based on any common Human patterns..or Whales for that matter..
And have senses completely their own..
It should be noted..when a species has an opposable thumb or similar..and has the ability to move around a bit and create all kinds of "things"..eventually creating such things...as nuclear bombs..which in about 1/3 of all species extant in the universe..manage to blow themselves up into extinction within a short time after this discovery..
But..after this occurs..the species that enacts this...will decide to incarnate into a less adaptable species instead in another planetary system..and w/o the ability to create such massively destructive things again..to insure the completion of all the levels thru time..for their souls..
We have in fact..avoided this for our species..for now...and while in the 50's and 60's..somehow got thru the nuclear dilemma and avoided destroying the world.....now our problem is the one of overpopulation..which is directly or indirectly responsible for all the misery on this lil planet..we call Earth..
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Old 06-29-2018   #79
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Rocket launch with bright spot being the separation of a booster stage?
That's not how rockets fly. Like I said it passed right by me shining a light my way, but was completely silent. Maybe 500 feet in the air tops. It was either a silent helicopter or a drone of some type, military. Near a test range.
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Old 06-29-2018   #80
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Overpopulation is the 7.6 billion pound gorilla in the corner of the room. And growing by the minute.

It's never discussed, acknowledged, or addressed. I once attended a meeting by my city to plan for an expected 20,000 new people moving to our city in the next few years. I asked the question: Why do we have to have 20,000 new people? Blank! Nothing. No response. No one thinks about the problem at its root. Why? Of course, its always more nuanced than my simple question, but the premise remains. Why do we have to accept this process? Or even worse, why are some people encouraging this process?

The fact is, we don't have to have an additional 20,000 people. All this "planning" is in fact reactionary scrambling. I also showed the "planners" how it is !impossible to grow and keep up with infrastructure needs such that quality-of-life does not decline. To put it in simpler words: growth is not sustainable. Eventually, everyone will suffer. And in fact, the suffering extends beyond the geographic extent of the city, and beyond humans.

But, that is not directly related to UFOs. Or is it?
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