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Old 03-03-2018   #41
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
You might be right but there is conflicting info available.
During my search, I bookmarked the article below. It seems to concur with other info on the 2 lenses.
With the Xenotar..The front glass is single yes, the front group has a bonded pair.


http://dobleobjetivo.blogspot.com/20...x6-lenses.html

Xenotar 2.8/80


Planar 2.8/80
There isn't any conflict as far as I can see. Schneider and Zeiss 80mm lenses for the 2.8s each use lens elements with cemented glass. I didn't think that was ever in dispute. But as I originally wrote, it is the front glass of the Planar that can suffer from cement failure. This is something that can never happen to the Xenotar because, as the diagrams you've posted yourself clearly illustrate, its front glass is a single ground piece.

Cement failure involving the 80mm Xenotar is much less common than with the Planar front doublet. Perhaps it is the larger size and the shape of front pieces which makes them more susceptible to the issue? I am not sure. But since it's often (not always, but frequently) the larger, front most parts of many types of lenses that will tend to split (which is certainly the case with the 80mm Planar), the 80mm Xenotar avoids this concern.
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Old 03-03-2018   #42
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Nice shots PePe. I did purchase Harry’s guide. I wasn’t about to be without my T for 4 months so I used Karl Elhers who Harry recommended. Took him 10 days and only cost $200! I’m most likely going to buy a 2.8E for 675 and it just had a CLA so I’m pretty excited about it! I’ll let you all know when I get it.
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Old 03-06-2018   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
You might be right but there is conflicting info available.
During my search, I bookmarked the article below. It seems to concur with other info on the 2 lenses.
With the Xenotar..The front glass is single yes, the front group has a bonded pair.


http://dobleobjetivo.blogspot.com/20...x6-lenses.html

Xenotar 2.8/80


Planar 2.8/80
Well I just received my 2.8C and the camera is in nice enough shape but the lens has haze and fungus, it's right behind
the front element and see in the above picture that the front element is separate, so can it be carefully cleaned? I've done
this before and came out good. I don't think I could return because it's a KEH As Is Item but I'll try.
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Old 03-06-2018   #44
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I've never opened a 2.8.
I have opened a 3.5 Xenar and it's pretty easy.
The front group screws off using a rubber block.
Imagine the 2.8 is the same.
I would be hesitant to take that group apart. It may be difficult to properly return it to order.
If you open it and find the haze/fungus in the center air gap... you'll be in luck as that is easy to clean and return to order.


Here is a picture of my a 2.8D Xenotar taken down for overhaul.
It sure looks like the lens groups simple thread in from front and back of the lens board.

On the other hand.... KEH takes just about everything back

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Old 03-06-2018   #45
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I have a Rollei 6008 Integral (SLR) which is a great camera. Had a Mamiya TLR 30 years ago, but have shied away from TLR's in favor of RF's and SLR's. But the case for a TLR is increasingly strong and I'm trying to learn what's up as it might be a good travel option (better than a Mamiya 6 RF?). Between a TTL meter and a non-metered camera, I have to say that it's convenient to have the option of a meter. I've heard the Mamiya 6 RF is a bit on the delicate side, and so the Rollei TLR's have a robustness that recommend them, and my 6008 is so amazingly well engineered that I'm definitely curious. And F16Sunshine makes a compelling case. But it's the confusion of different model choices...!!! Almost worse than wading into the Leica M confusion.

BTW, keep the posts coming!! Thanks!
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Old 03-06-2018   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
I've never opened a 2.8.
I have opened a 3.5 Xenar and it's pretty easy.
The front group screws off using a rubber block.
Imagine the 2.8 is the same.
I would be hesitant to take that group apart. It may be difficult to properly return it to order.
If you open it and find the haze/fungus in the center air gap... you'll be in luck as that is easy to clean and return to order.

Here is a picture of my a 2.8D Xenotar taken down for overhaul.
It sure looks like the lens groups simple thread in from front and back of the lens board.

On the other hand.... KEH takes just about everything back
Wow great job, if they don't, I'll try to clean it which will help (there is some scratches on the front element) and see thanks for the pic.
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Old 03-06-2018   #47
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
I've never opened a 2.8.
I have opened a 3.5 Xenar and it's pretty easy.
The front group screws off using a rubber block.
Imagine the 2.8 is the same.
I would be hesitant to take that group apart. It may be difficult to properly return it to order.
If you open it and find the haze/fungus in the center air gap... you'll be in luck as that is easy to clean and return to order.

Here is a picture of my a 2.8D Xenotar taken down for overhaul.
It sure looks like the lens groups simple thread in from front and back of the lens board.

On the other hand.... KEH takes just about everything back
Andy,
The 80mm Xenotar a bit different to the 75mm Xenar. I have worked on several of both types. There is a small brass screw in the side of the Xenotar mount that locks the front and rear parts of the mount together. It must first be removed before the two halves may be unthreaded from each other. There may be a shim to set the correct distance between the lens components within. Also, the centre of the front glass of the Xenotar protrudes beyond the edge of the mount. It should never be placed front down on a rubber or other surface because the glass will contact it, and there's potential for damage to occur.

Nevertheless, providing nobody has butchered the parts stripping the mount down for cleaning should be straightforward. The locking screw is quite small. A 1 or 1.5mm screwdriver will be needed, ensure the tip is a good fit in the slot, it's brass and easily damaged. Cleaning the Xenotar from my 2.8C was a straightforward task that took minutes.

On the other hand someone completely clueless had been at the one fitted to my 2.8D. The mount had external marks where it had been burred by the jaws of some sort of inappropriate tool, the mount had not been fully fastened and the glass within was rattling, and (not surprisingly, having been incorrectly fastened) the locking screw had not been re-installed in its original thread, instead being roughly driven into the side of the inner mount. For good measure the head of the locking screw was completely mangled, and the opening for the head in the outer mount had been butchered and was over size, rendering it useless for securing the screw head.

The only way to rectify the whole disaster was for me to carefully drill out what was left of the screw with a pin vice. After splitting the lens mounting and cleaning the lens surfaces I did a trial assembly, marked the correct position of the fastened mounts to each other, before stripping them, so that I could drill new holes for a replacement locking screw into the mounts with my pin vice. I then tapped a replacement thread for the fastener into the inner mount.

The repair was a success but the mount remains very sad-looking. Fortunately, none of the damage is visible with the lens installed in the shutter, and the camera it is a part of is fairly tidy, but, I still know it's there and it still annoys me. But I learned a valuable lesson about what a drama it can be to buy from certain big US east coast camera stores, because the camera in question had several glaring problems apart from the taking lens that were completely overlooked in their eBay listing. I felt then, and still feel, that the inspection standards for their used equipment are completely unsatisfactory, and I will never, ever, deal with them again.

Hopefully the example that is the topic of this discussion will have a lens mount in rather more original condition. If so, it should be a five minute job to remove and clean the lens glass and re-install it in the shutter threads. But I will leave it up to the owner of it as to whether or not they feel confident to do it themselves, because I do not know their confidence level or skill set.
Cheers,
Brett
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Old 03-07-2018   #48
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So as someone tagging this thread, I'm wondering which Xenotar models you recommend? Fleenor seems to push the 3.5's as in better shape generally, but everyone seems to favor the 2.8's. Then there's the C's, D's, E's and F's. I've even heard of FX's. Love to know more if anyone cares to share their two cents. Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2018   #49
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I'm a novice, but this is what I've been able to glean from pretty extensive reading: The 3.5 is generally sharper and less expensive. The 2.8 has a lovely smooth but sharp character that is, for some people, worth paying for. If that lens character doesn't float your boat, you'd likely be happy to buy the 3.5, and use the money you saved for a good CLA and a new focus screen.

As for the difference between models, I highly recommend RFF Member Swift1's article at Film Shooter's Collective: https://www.filmshooterscollective.com/analog-film-photography-blog/rolleiflex-buying-guide-1-11 He lays it all out in a way that makes the decision easy.

Again, I can't speak from experience, but this is the sentiment that I picked up after a lot of reading!
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Old 03-07-2018   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcophilus Harrisii View Post
Andy,
The 80mm Xenotar a bit different to the 75mm Xenar. I have worked on several of both types. There is a small brass screw in the side of the Xenotar mount that locks the front and rear parts of the mount together. It must first be removed before the two halves may be unthreaded from each other. There may be a shim to set the correct distance between the lens components within. Also, the centre of the front glass of the Xenotar protrudes beyond the edge of the mount. It should never be placed front down on a rubber or other surface because the glass will contact it, and there's potential for damage to occur.

Nevertheless, providing nobody has butchered the parts stripping the mount down for cleaning should be straightforward. The locking screw is quite small. A 1 or 1.5mm screwdriver will be needed, ensure the tip is a good fit in the slot, it's brass and easily damaged. Cleaning the Xenotar from my 2.8C was a straightforward task that took minutes.

On the other hand someone completely clueless had been at the one fitted to my 2.8D. The mount had external marks where it had been burred by the jaws of some sort of inappropriate tool, the mount had not been fully fastened and the glass within was rattling, and (not surprisingly, having been incorrectly fastened) the locking screw had not been re-installed in its original thread, instead being roughly driven into the side of the inner mount. For good measure the head of the locking screw was completely mangled, and the opening for the head in the outer mount had been butchered and was over size, rendering it useless for securing the screw head.

The only way to rectify the whole disaster was for me to carefully drill out what was left of the screw with a pin vice. After splitting the lens mounting and cleaning the lens surfaces I did a trial assembly, marked the correct position of the fastened mounts to each other, before stripping them, so that I could drill new holes for a replacement locking screw into the mounts with my pin vice. I then tapped a replacement thread for the fastener into the inner mount.

The repair was a success but the mount remains very sad-looking. Fortunately, none of the damage is visible with the lens installed in the shutter, and the camera it is a part of is fairly tidy, but, I still know it's there and it still annoys me. But I learned a valuable lesson about what a drama it can be to buy from certain big US east coast camera stores, because the camera in question had several glaring problems apart from the taking lens that were completely overlooked in their eBay listing. I felt then, and still feel, that the inspection standards for their used equipment are completely unsatisfactory, and I will never, ever, deal with them again.

Hopefully the example that is the topic of this discussion will have a lens mount in rather more original condition. If so, it should be a five minute job to remove and clean the lens glass and re-install it in the shutter threads. But I will leave it up to the owner of it as to whether or not they feel confident to do it themselves, because I do not know their confidence level or skill set.
Cheers,
Brett
Hi Brett,

I've done a few Rolleiflex's I so have no fear jumping in this one, while in good shape the shutter works and transport a little stiff works, the problem is that when checking the rest of the lens, both front and rear have fog and those blasted spot's plus the bellows is not attached I'm sure I could clean both out now with your great instruction's. I just got a email from KEH stating they will take back the camera for refund so I don't know to keep it or return and wait for a better one. One thing to note the front taking lens has scratches as well and I don't know if that will degrade the image further.
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Old 03-07-2018   #51
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Karateisland: Much obliged! Thank you!
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Old 03-07-2018   #52
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Originally Posted by Range-rover View Post
Hi Brett,

I've done a few Rolleiflex's I so have no fear jumping in this one, while in good shape the shutter works and transport a little stiff works, the problem is that when checking the rest of the lens, both front and rear have fog and those blasted spot's plus the bellows is not attached I'm sure I could clean both out now with your great instruction's. I just got a email from KEH stating they will take back the camera for refund so I don't know to keep it or return and wait for a better one. One thing to note the front taking lens has scratches as well and I don't know if that will degrade the image further.
Hi,
if you are confident to clean it, in your shoes (without knowing just how badly the front of the lens is scratched) this is what I would probably do:

  • Unscrew the front lens mount and open it up for cleaning if the fastening screw is not the nightmare my 2.8D was;
  • Clean the front surface of the rear group with the aperture wide open and the shutter on Bulb, (use the shutter lock to lock the blades open);
  • Re-install the front mount and shoot off a quick test roll, and assess the results.

Make a point of shooting the lens away from the sun, at right angles and into the sun. For the last two, do a frame or two wide open and at middle aperture and if possible, stopped right down. This will challenge a lens with coating issues the most severely and also inform how you may expect it to behave in more forgiving lighting situations. An outdoor scene with some tonal variation and shadow areas would be useful to assess its worth. You can make a decision about keeping it or returning it from that.

For what its worth the front of the 2.8C Xenotar I sold late last year was far from perfect with plenty of scratches but still performed well overall, and was one of the sharpest lenses I have used. The 2.8D with so many lens problems referred to previously has appalling blemishes, I'll probably have to get it re-coated eventually (and I am not particularly precious about having perfect glass). Images made with it are generally sharp enough, but contrast is lower than I would expect from a coated lens, shots taken with it almost look like they are from an uncoated one.

What does this inform? Not a lot, except that the effects of a lens with blemishes can be relative, depending on a few points, not least, how bad the damage is. It's wonderful if your new camera has a taking lens that's as new. But image quality won't automatically be noticeably impacted if damage is not severe. A quick test roll is the best way to assess whether or not you can live with it as it is, for the price you've paid for it.
Cheers
Brett
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Old 03-08-2018   #53
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Here's a picture of the front of the camera.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P1060824.jpg (40.8 KB, 19 views)
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Old 03-08-2018   #54
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This is over at the Photrio classified site.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/thread...ar-kit.155996/
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Old 03-08-2018   #55
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That's very interesting it has that problem with the lens and the photos look great make
me kind of wonder about my camera's issues and if I cleaned it out how they would
turn out you don't know till you try.
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Old 03-08-2018   #56
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I decided to try and clean it, so the lens assembly came apart so easy and the screw
was in good shape. I sprayed ROR lens cleaner on the back of the lens and the spots
cleaned right off. now I have to get to the rear section, any tips?
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Old 03-08-2018   #57
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Brett made the suggestion I have used in the past on other models.

Once the front group is off, set the camera to bulb and open the lens.
Use the shutter lock to keep the lens open.
Now you can reach the inside of the rear group from the front.
The 2.8C has a plastic shutter lock which has often failed over the years.
If yours is missing, use a shutter cable with a lock on it to keep the shutter open securely.
If the the shutter blades close while you are swabbing..... that would be not good


Here is a link to Hans Kerensky's Flickr. He has a lot of useful images of Rolleis in states of repair.
You may find something useful in there I know I have
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Old 03-08-2018   #58
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Thanks for the info Andy, but I think is in the space between the rear and the
cemented elements so I think I have to get the front panel lifted out.
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Old 03-08-2018   #59
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Okay, I just finished cleaning out the rear elements I was right between the first
and second element, now the next is the bellows are a bit worn with holes in it
does anyone have a fix for the holes?
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Old 03-09-2018   #60
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Found material what glue is good for this?
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Old 03-09-2018   #61
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Quote:
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I have my Dad's T 3.5 Tessar. I remember him showing me it and saying how he would like to have a 2.8 but couldn't afford one. I just had his T restored and while looking through the manuals and catalogs I found a manual for a 2.8E so this must have been the one he was drooling over. After talking with my service tech he recommends a D or later. After looking on the auction site I realized the prices there are really high. Is this how the entire market for these models run? If not what is a good price for them say thru CL or private sale?
Steve, even though your dad thought he wanted the 2.8, it is possible you might be just as happy, and maybe happier, with your 3.5 T. I had a 3.5 T, sold it to try the 2.8 Planar. I got about $350 for it. Then I found the 2.8 was too heavy and also didn't balance well in my hands. And the Tessar is a fine lens in its own right, and yours is all CLA'd and ready to go!

I wish I had my 3.5 T back!
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Old 03-09-2018   #62
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It true the 3.5 are great in their own right, I've been learning that now the
2.8's are going for high prices now (even 3.5). Have you tried out the 3.5 yet.
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Old 03-09-2018   #63
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Steve, I've had several 2.8F and really like them, but about 15 years ago I traded the last one on a super-angulon XL 90mm. Eventually, being shy on cash & missing the Rollei, I picked up a cheap Rolleiflex T (w supposed issues) on the *bay & sent it to Harry F for a service & a Maxwell screen. It's turned into my #1 most used camera. Is the 2.8 sharper wide open? Probably....but it's not an issue. I'd be happy with the Tessar character for portraits wide open, & stopped down it is more than sharp enough. This image, I have printed 20" square & it holds up just fine. As much as I like the handling of a Leica, the minute I'm in the darkroom, I prefer all larger negatives. I took this image on the Tour de Mont Blanc (100 mile hike around MB through France, Italy & Switzerland). I wasn't going be carrying my Deardorff (!) & the Rollei is a wonderful compromise.


03715C01-8C36-42C0-BC19-CCF1AC4EAAC1 by Greg Yavorsky, on Flickr
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Old 03-09-2018   #64
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Quote:
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Steve, even though your dad thought he wanted the 2.8, it is possible you might be just as happy, and maybe happier, with your 3.5 T. I had a 3.5 T, sold it to try the 2.8 Planar. I got about $350 for it. Then I found the 2.8 was too heavy and also didn't balance well in my hands. And the Tessar is a fine lens in its own right, and yours is all CLA'd and ready to go!

I wish I had my 3.5 T back!
Sorry to hear you sold your T. I have been enjoying mine and will never let it go as it was my fathers. It has some lens separation but the Karl said it wouldn't hurt the image quality. I haven't noticed any issues with it yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Range-rover View Post
It true the 3.5 are great in there own right, I've been learning that now the
2.8's are going for high prices now (even 3.5). Have you try out the 3.5 yet.
Yes and I have been loving the T! I agree the prices are insane for the E and F versions of Planar and Xenotar. I just purchased a 2.8E for $635 so I feel fortunate. If I don't find I use it as much as the T I will still hold on to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deardorff38 View Post
Steve, I've had several 2.8F and really like them, but about 15 years ago I traded the last one on a super-angulon XL 90mm. Eventually, being shy on cash & missing the Rollei, I picked up a cheap Rolleiflex T (w supposed issues) on the *bay & sent it to Harry F for a service & a Maxwell screen. It's turned into my #1 most used camera. Is the 2.8 sharper wide open? Probably....but it's not an issue. I'd be happy with the Tessar character for portraits wide open, & stopped down it is more than sharp enough. This image, I have printed 20" square & it holds up just fine. As much as I like the handling of a Leica, the minute I'm in the darkroom, I prefer all larger negatives. I took this image on the Tour de Mont Blanc (100 mile hike around MB through France, Italy & Switzerland). I wasn't going be carry my Deardorff (!) & the Rollei is a wonderful compromise. 03715C01-8C36-42C0-BC19-CCF1AC4EAAC1 by Greg Yavorsky, on Flickr
Nice, glad to hear your loving the T! I think it's fun to use as well. Is that a photo of a print??
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Old 03-09-2018   #65
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This image, I have printed 20" square & it holds up just fine.
Lovely picture, Steve. Really enjoy the perspectives you can get with TLRs!
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Old 03-09-2018   #66
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Yes Steve, It's an iphone photo of a print. I have neither a scanner nor a DSLR....but I do have 2 enlargers ;-)
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Old 03-09-2018   #67
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Thumbs up

Quote:
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Yes Steve, It's an iphone photo of a print. I have neither a scanner nor a DSLR....but I do have 2 enlargers ;-)


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Old 03-13-2018   #68
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I just got my 2.8E today and already f'd it up. While cleaning the site window for the counter it gave lose and fell into the camera. Looks like a very poor design. There is no way the window could press in on my T. How do I get inside to fix it? Should I glue it so it doesn't press out again?
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Old 03-13-2018   #69
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Well it is made good but after so many years the plastic most likely shrunk. If you
want to go in and get it out you have to remove the leather, the advance lever the
disc that covers by the advance lever (2 screws) and find it but watch out for the
little washer under the cover where the screws go they get lost easy. So if your
not used to taking apart Rollei's leave it till you get it checked out.
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Old 03-14-2018   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Range-rover View Post
Well it is made good but after so many years the plastic most likely shrunk. If you
want to go in and get it out you have to remove the leather, the advance lever the
disc that covers by the advance lever (2 screws) and find it but watch out for the
little washer under the cover where the screws go they get lost easy. So if your
not used to taking apart Rollei's leave it till you get it checked out.
I got it open. I only saw one washer on the panel mounting holes. I guess I should do some cleaning while I'm in there. It just had CLA so I'm not sure why this section wasn't clean.

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Old 03-15-2018   #71
Steve Ruddy
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Well it is made good but after so many years the plastic most likely shrunk. If you
want to go in and get it out you have to remove the leather, the advance lever the
disc that covers by the advance lever (2 screws) and find it but watch out for the
little washer under the cover where the screws go they get lost easy. So if your
not used to taking apart Rollei's leave it till you get it checked out.
Got it back in but had to glue it in place. There is a channel the window lens fits into and it was gone on one side. I lost that darn little pin for the double exposure lever. I was watching it all along and wasn't going to remove the piece it fits into. Then I changed my mind and removed it but forgot about the pin. Now I have to figure out what to use in it's place! Next time I do this I'm going to use a tray. It will help catch things that don't fly off into mid air. This is like working on a watch.
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Old 03-15-2018   #72
Range-rover
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Got it back in but had to glue it in place. There is a channel the window lens fits into and it was gone on one side. I lost that darn little pin for the double exposure lever. I was watching it all along and wasn't going to remove the piece it fits into. Then I changed my mind and removed it but forgot about the pin. Now I have to figure out what to use in it's place! Next time I do this I'm going to use a tray. It will help catch things that don't fly off into mid air. This is like working on a watch.
It is like working on a fine watch, I lost that pin as well and I used a
sewing pin the same width and I cut it down with a dremel tool.
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Old 03-15-2018   #73
Steve Ruddy
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It is like working on a fine watch, I lost that pin as well and I used a
sewing pin the same width and I cut it down with a dremel tool.
Ha ha, I did the same with a paper clip! It's all back together now and working. Have any idea about how to fix the DOF indicator??
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Old 03-15-2018   #74
f16sunshine
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It's good to use a mat of "car door magnet" stock while working on these things.
It's soft and black as well as being magnetic.
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Old 03-17-2018   #75
Steve Ruddy
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It's good to use a mat of "car door magnet" stock while working on these things.
It's soft and black as well as being magnetic.
Great recommendation!
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