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Least expensive but "normal" 50mm for digital M.
Old 02-14-2018   #1
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Least expensive but "normal" 50mm for digital M.

What would be most affordable 50mm lens capable of modern rendering on digital Leica? Without so called vintage "character" and odd colors.
I have J-12 been very close to it, but it is flaring badly and it is not 50mm lens.
J-3 of same vintage didn't impressed me at all. Weak colors.
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Old 02-14-2018   #2
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J-8 perhaps?
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Old 02-14-2018   #3
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ZM Planar?
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Old 02-14-2018   #4
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Hmm... maybe black one from nineties. Easy to re-shim.

Planar is more expensive than 7a, even Color Skopar is more expensive than 7a now.
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Old 02-14-2018   #5
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CV Color-Skopar 50/2.5?
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Old 02-14-2018   #6
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Quote:
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CV Color-Skopar 50/2.5?
Actually... they seem a lot more expensive than I thought they were.
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Old 02-14-2018   #7
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The J-8 is unbeatable. It is a clone of the wonderful Zeiss 5cm/2. You can find a good one for $40. If your budget allows it, go for a clean J-3. A clone of the amazing Zeiss 5cm/1.5 Sonnar.
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Old 02-14-2018   #8
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Industar-61 gives more saturated colours than J-8 and J-3. It is probably the sharpest Tessar among all interchangeable lens RFs. It just looks ugly. There are prototype I61 occasionally listed on ebay that does not look ugly, but looks weird.

From sovietcams:
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Old 02-14-2018   #9
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Another Sonnar, with superior build to a J-8 (and close focus for live-view cameras): Nikkor-H.C. 5cm f/2 LTM
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Old 02-14-2018   #10
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The Canon LTM 50/1.8 is a very well-behaved lens, and not expensive.
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Old 02-14-2018   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
The J-8 is unbeatable. It is a clone of the wonderful Zeiss 5cm/2. You can find a good one for $40. If your budget allows it, go for a clean J-3. A clone of the amazing Zeiss 5cm/1.5 Sonnar.
agree... as inexpensive and good as one could ask for.
The J8 is just simply good and cheap.
It takes some patience to find/shim a good one. Once you do... keep it.
Best choice under $100 (maybe only)
There was an LTM nikkor f2/50mm for $200 in the classified the other day... another good inexpensive normal.

My choice is the Color Skopar. Still under $400.
A digital M "deserves" a $400 lens ... no?

OTOH..... Go New under $400!!
The 7Artisans lens is pretty sweet and modern by f2.
For it's price and size, one can just "ignore "the larger apertures and buy it as an f2/50mm sonnar... would still be a good value.
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Old 02-14-2018   #12
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Where is 61 and 61 L/D. I only get chance to try 61 and it was just at the edge to be as good modern lens on colors and contrast.
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Old 02-14-2018   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
My choice is the Color Skopar. Still under $400.
A digital M "deserves" a $400 lens ... no?
+1 Can't buy a $5,000 amp and stick $100 speakers on it....
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Old 02-14-2018   #14
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Canon 50/2.2 can be found cheaper than any Nikkor 50s or faster Canon 50s:

It has more modern gold-tinted coatings, instead of magenta/blue on earlier lenses.

On Agfa 400:


Fujicour C200:


(Note: These photos are less saturated then they "should" be)
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Old 02-14-2018   #15
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For the cheapest price: J8 and Industar-22 or 61.

For the best value: 7artisans 1.1/50
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Old 02-14-2018   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Where is 61 and 61 L/D. I only get chance to try 61 and it was just at the edge to be as good modern lens on colors and contrast.
From what I have read, technically the I-61 and I-61 L/D are basically the identical optical formula. Both are essentially the same Tessar formula, and both have one (?) Lanthanum element.
You likely find more difference from sample variations than from the 2 different models.
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Old 02-14-2018   #17
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what's the canon 50/1.5 sonnar going for these days...lovely rendering...
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Old 02-14-2018   #18
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My guess: approximately $350
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Old 02-14-2018   #19
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Dear Ko

I have a 50 1.8 canon
nice lens ...
You pay for the shipping
NY to Canada ( not sure what that is via USPS)
and it's Yours ~ Enjoy !
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Old 02-14-2018   #20
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I have two J-8s -- one is OK, the other a little better than that. The better one can give "modern" results, but it remains a sonnar design which I always think of as a "vintage" type lens. Maybe not? I have the Contax/Kiev version (J-8M) and its definitely a better performer on film than my other J-8s (I have no way to try it on digital). For the price, and with some careful shopping, could fit the requirements.

I have only one I-61LD now. The lens is capapble of sharp-ish modern look, but its the cheapest build RF lens I own, hands down. Barely usable. I simply don't use it.

I have a few I-22/I-10/Fed-50 lenses. I consider them quite good for what they are, but they're slow and seem to be "vintage" in my eyes. Perhaps its the low contrast?

Canon 50/1.8 and 1.4 are good for me. I have both and rather like the 1.4, but I need to shim it for the Leicas. When I have time...

The Nikon LTM lenses are very good and fit the requirements in OP. Either the f/2 or the f/1.4 will work (though I don't have the f/1.4). I think these are also sonnars. But, contrary to my earlier statement above, somehow the images don't look that vintage to me, but rather modern.

I don't have the 7A or a color skopar (in 50mm). Can't comment on those, but I'm awful tempted by the 7A.

You have a very good J-3 Kostya. So I know you have the sonnar look covered.
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Old 02-14-2018   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kermaier View Post
The Canon LTM 50/1.8 is a very well-behaved lens, and not expensive.
Aye, though I find the 50/1.4 a bit more modern feeling. Hard to go wrong with either though.
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Old 02-14-2018   #22
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I second the industar 61ld with rear body cap (aka FED 5b).
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Old 02-14-2018   #23
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Quote:
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I have only one I-61LD now. The lens is capapble of sharp-ish modern look, but its the cheapest build RF lens I own, hands down. Barely usable. I simply don't use it.
What year is your I-61 L/D from, do you know?
I have a I-61 L/D that came with a late 60's FED 3.
The build quality isn't as good as my J-8 from 1956, but it isn't necessarily bad. The focus is smooth from end to end, aperture click stops nicely.
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Old 02-14-2018   #24
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Is around $200 cheap enough? The Japanese LTM planar type lenses from the 50s have a modern look. The Canon 50 f/1.8, as already mentioned, is a good one. There is also the (Minolta) Chiyoko Super Rokkor 50 f/2. A later f/1.8 version of that lens is rarer and usually more expensive. The (Tokyo Kogaku) Topcor 50 f/2 is also a good one.
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Old 02-14-2018   #25
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Old 02-14-2018   #26
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I have the Color Skopar 50/2.5. A lovely lens: sharp, small, nicely made, etc. It's not as modern in rendering as the current Summicron-M 50mm f/2, but it's certainly a little past the "vintage" look in rendering performance. Well worth the money.

I never buy the Russian lenses because I've found their quality and performance too variable on a unit by unit basis. I just never know what I'm getting when I look at one... Most seem to be somewhat disappointing.
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Old 02-14-2018   #27
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I'm not really sure what 'modern' rendering is, but I'm assuming that would require a 'modern' lens, which would pretty much mean Voigtlander, Leica, or Zeiss ZM.

Never had any interest in Russian stuff as they are so hit or miss (as mentioned above) and in the end they are just copies of the originals which aren't modern.
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Old 02-14-2018   #28
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Another vote for the Nikon H-C 5cm f/2.0 from me. Excellent rendering on film. J-8 is close.
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Old 02-14-2018   #29
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Quote:
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Aye, though I find the 50/1.4 a bit more modern feeling. Hard to go wrong with either though.
second that
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Old 02-15-2018   #30
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Quote:
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I'm not really sure what 'modern' rendering is, but I'm assuming that would require a 'modern' lens, which would pretty much mean Voigtlander, Leica, or Zeiss ZM.

Never had any interest in Russian stuff as they are so hit or miss (as mentioned above) and in the end they are just copies of the originals which aren't modern.
Hi,

I agree regarding "ancient" and "modern" rendering, as I've no idea what people are talking about. How would this be described:-



Regards, David
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Old 02-15-2018   #31
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second that
third?

anyway, what i wanted to show is that the canon 50mm f/1.8 LTM can show some kind of "hotspot" in colour photos, like here. (obviously, this won't happen in B&W)

this is heidelberg, too by sebastel23, on Flickr
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Old 02-15-2018   #32
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Dear Ko

I have a 50 1.8 canon
nice lens ...
You pay for the shipping
NY to Canada ( not sure what that is via USPS)
and it's Yours ~ Enjoy !
I think this wins in the least expensive normal 50mm category.
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Old 02-15-2018   #33
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Another Sonnar, with superior build to a J-8 (and close focus for live-view cameras): Nikkor-H.C. 5cm f/2 LTM
I second this choice. I really love this lens.
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Old 02-15-2018   #34
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I think this wins in the least expensive normal 50mm category.
Yes indeed !!!
Thanks M....sweeeet to notice & it's sweet to give
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Old 02-15-2018   #35
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for something different try here (no affiliation to the seller etc).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Voigtland...sAAOSwMGVab1tP
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Old 02-15-2018   #36
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Old 02-15-2018   #37
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Yes indeed !!!
Thanks M....sweeeet to notice & it's sweet to give
and even though i have some sporadic colour probs with mine, i warmly recommend this lens. very nice one.
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Old 02-15-2018   #38
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for something different try here (no affiliation to the seller etc).

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Voigtland...sAAOSwMGVab1tP

Not coupled though...
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Old 02-15-2018   #39
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The Canon LTM 50/1.8 is a very well-behaved lens, and not expensive.
This, and if you wait around, you can get a chrome one on Ebay for about $120. The aluminum ones would be good, but you can't buy them remotely because many of them have permanent internal-fogging problems.

I've been through the Russian thing and would never do it again. Your chances of getting one that focuses properly close-up are remote, no matter what anyone says. The standard they were made to was different. I've seen results from them from people who like them, and much of their work is out of focus but they don't notice. Not good enough for prime (ha!) time.
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Old 02-15-2018   #40
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Quote:
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Hi,

I agree regarding "ancient" and "modern" rendering, as I've no idea what people are talking about. How would this be described:-



Regards, David
When I think of a lens with "modern" rendering, I have in mind some of the following:
  • Higher contrast
  • Better color saturation
  • Decent resolution wide open
  • Lower tendency to flare/glow
  • Low chromatic aberration
  • More "density" in OOF areas

Some of this would be due to better coatings, some to more highly corrected optical computations, etc.

So, among vintage lenses I've used, I would consider the following more "modern"
  • W-Nikkor 35/2.5 LTM
  • Canon 50/1.8 LTM
  • Nikkor-H.C. 50/2 LTM
  • Canon 85/1.8 LTM

And these, distinctly "vintage" in rendering:
  • Canon 25/3.5 LTM
  • Canon 28/2.8 LTM
  • Canon 35/1.5 LTM
  • Canon 35/2.8 LTM
  • Canon 50/3.5 Collapsible LTM
  • Canon 50/1.5 LTM
  • Canon 50/1.2 LTM
  • Nikkor-W 35/1.8 LTM
  • Nikkor-S.C 50/1.4 LTM
  • Leica Summar 50/2
  • Leica Summicron 50/2 Rigid
  • Leica Summicron 50/2 Collapsible
  • Leica Elmar 50/2.8
  • Leica Super-Angulon 21/3.4

Now I'll put my foot in my mouth by trying to guess what sort of lens you used for your picture, going from a small JPEG of what looks like a film scan: l'd say it was made with an extremely clean vintage lens. It's not very modern in rendering, but nothing that screams "vintage" either.
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