Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Gearhead Delights > Repair / Camera Care

Repair / Camera Care This is a good place to discuss the care and repair of your photo gear. You can share Do-It-Yourself repair and maintenance, as well as your recommendations for pro repairs. This new forum was created 4/1/07. PLEASE title your thread wisely, so others searching for a certain make of camera or repair person can find your thread easily!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Mjautek II : Voigtlander Bessa R2 teardown
Old 01-06-2018   #1
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016
Mjautek II : Voigtlander Bessa R2 teardown

Mjautek Episode II: Bessa R2
Eugene Lee / 06 Jan 2018

(previous episode: Canon 7 vs Leica M)




1. This Bessa R2 I bought used in 2015, to compliment my Leica M2 - shooting colour, something to use when my Leica is broken (which happens ALL OF THE TIME because I keep dropping it), that sort of thing. This camera was used as my daily camera more or less for two years; and in that time the meter has gone crazy (flickering LEDs and other problems), the knob has broken off of the rewind lever, and the finder has gathered enough dust to warrant taking the camera apart for cleaning.




2. Taking the top cover off was something like 6 months in the making - on my first attempt I couldn't get the "screw" over the wind lever off. And I tried again more recently - made a flexiclamp, put an unreasonable amount of torque into it, and nothing happened. Turns out that it's not a screw at all - it's just a cover - and the screws that hold the plastic wind lever tip on also hold the cover on. Well bollocks.

The rest of the top cover removal is pretty straightforward. The hot shoe screws are concealed under a flat spring that needs to be pried up from the front and slid back. Note which way the bits under the ASA / shutter speed dial are oriented. The rewind crank needs to be unscrewed from the fork in the film chamber as usual, but the screw with the red dot on it (on the top of the camera) needs to be removed as well, and it's held in with thread locking adhesive. There are two screws under the rubber body covering. No need to undo the PC sync port.






3. Top cover off - top view.






4. Back view.






5. Front view





6. Rangefinder. Look at all of the dust! It's not this dust that's the issue, but rather somewhere else in the rangefinder, where it's in focus in the rangefinder patch. That's quite annoying.





7. More dust.






8. Frame counter drive - the white plastic circle with a triangle cut out of it. One full rotation moves the counter one increment. A spring holds the circle against the counter gear; a flexible fit is required for the mechanism to work. It's kind of like a geneva drive.




9. Another view of the counter drive.





10. The rangefinder unit is held to the chassis with three screws and three brass spacers - and, of course, one ribbon connector for the meter LEDs and a wire for the flash contacts.



I'm leaving it at this for tonight - before I pull more stuff apart tomorrow, let me know if you have any questions or if there's anything in particular you'd like me to look at...
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-06-2018   #2
B-9
Devin Bro
 
B-9's Avatar
 
B-9 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,171
Cool! Thanks for sharing!

Seeing your winder reminds me I should try one.
__________________
Made in Michigan

RangefinderGuy @ Instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #3
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016
Devin - the winder's kinda neat, but I pretty much never use it.



11. Here's something weird - the Bessa R2 has a self timer.
The timer mechanism is in there, there's a hole for a lever and space in the back of the front plate casting but there's no lever there, obviously. But why? And what else is Cosina hiding from us????!?!?!

Of course I'm gonna try and make a lever for it.

More to come later.
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #4
f16sunshine
Moderator
 
f16sunshine's Avatar
 
f16sunshine is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Age: 51
Posts: 6,258
It’s as some have suspected.
The carraige and shutter is the same as the Cosina made Nikon FM10, Olympus Om2000, Yashica FX3 etc...
Why not. Although lightweight those cameras have pretty reliable shutrers and meters.
Cosina just burried the self timer and built an rf system instead of mirrorbox/slr-prism/VF.
Good detective work.... having fun?
__________________
Andy
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #5
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooge View Post
Devin - the winder's kinda neat, but I pretty much never use it.



11. Here's something weird - the Bessa R2 has a self timer.
The timer mechanism is in there, there's a hole for a lever and space in the back of the front plate casting but there's no lever there, obviously. But why? And what else is Cosina hiding from us????!?!?!

Of course I'm gonna try and make a lever for it.

More to come later.
Haha, what a secret well hidden. Front cover makers forget to make a hole? Last minute cost reduction? I think in some cameras the slow speed gears and self timer gears are combined, not sure if it's the case in Bessa-R2.

Since the cover is removed, I would check and re-glue the film counter cover window if it's not super tight. The one on R often goes loose according to user reports, and it has happened to mine too. Never owned an R2, maybe they improved it.
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #6
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016
No, there's a hole and all in the front cover - the rubber "leatherette" covers it up. I guess I shouldn't be so surprised the self timer is there - but I don't get why they wouldn't put a lever there to go with it. It can't possibly save them that much money, and self timers are rather useful (I think anyway). It's not connected to the slow speeds but it appears to be a pretty integral part of the shutter mechanism.

Thanks for the suggestion, nukecoke, I'll throw some glue on there before it gets buttoned up.
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #7
MaxElmar
Registered User
 
MaxElmar's Avatar
 
MaxElmar is offline
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 588
That's amazing! I wonder if the lever from the "R" will fit?... Or FM10?
__________________
Chris L.

Still Photographically Uncool
https://www.flickr.com/photos/xenotar/


  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #8
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016
MaxElmar - yeah, I'm curious if parts could be dropped in without any work. I'm also curious if all of the other Bessas have self timers (and holes)...




Took a coupla more things off - no more dirty secrets and no obvious cause for my flickering light meter...





12. The leatherette rubber is stuck to the camera with a sort of double sided tape - it's actually easier to scrape it off without using lighter fluid, which turns it into this sort of gooey mess.






13. Lens release button - two springs! I had trouble keeping the button straight on my Canon 7 M-mount conversion - maybe I'll copy this if I ever get to redoing it.






14. The strap lugs come out easily and it would be easy ("easy") to make offset ones if you don't like the way how the Bessa hangs weird with lighter lenses. I have the trigger winder on the camera most of the time so this was never an issue for me.





15. Plastic bevel gears under the shutter speed dial. The spring at 9 o'clock provides the detents (click stops) for the dial.

The screw is a little cheesed because I tried to take it off to get access to the wiper for the ISO setting - it's on there pretty good and I didn't feel like breaking it.




16. Another look at the plastic bevel gears.






17. This black plastic gear is what controls the shutter speeds on the shutter; the plastic bevel gears and the brass idler transfer the shutter speed dial rotation to this gear. Directly above and behind the black gear is the slow speeds escapement.

Also, there's some foam behind the top of the shutter mechanism. Why? No idea.






18. The front plate removed from the camera.






19. The self timer (pencil point) and the corresponding hole in the front plate...






20. ...And the recess in the front plate that should house a lever for the self timer






21. Bottom of the camera.
A - Trigger winder drive spline. This shaft rotates 120 degrees and doesn't return
B - Wind stroke lock. Locks winding after wind stroke is completed
C - Shutter release interlock. Locks shutter button unless shutter is cocked.
D - Self timer
E - Shutter cocking lever
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-07-2018   #9
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,287
I wonder if my Zeiss Ikon has a self timer as well...
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2018   #10
monopix
Registered User
 
monopix is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
It’s as some have suspected.
The carraige and shutter is the same as the Cosina made Nikon FM10, Olympus Om2000, Yashica FX3 etc...
Why not. Although lightweight those cameras have pretty reliable shutrers and meters.
Cosina just burried the self timer and built an rf system instead of mirrorbox/slr-prism/VF.
Good detective work.... having fun?
The chassis is a Cosina CT1 chassis which is not the same as a Yashica FX3. That has a chassis that started out in a Contax 139. I can't speak for the Olympus or Nikon.

The shutter is similar but not the same. The Bessas have extra curtains in them.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2018   #11
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by monopix View Post
The chassis is a Cosina CT1 chassis which is not the same as a Yashica FX3. That has a chassis that started out in a Contax 139. I can't speak for the Olympus or Nikon.

The shutter is similar but not the same. The Bessas have extra curtains in them.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Does Contax 139 have anything to do with Cosina? Or were they just simply using a similar chassis? I know they both came out around 1979. But the 139 is an A mode camera and the layout of the dials are quite different from the series manual SLRs and the Bessas mentioned above, so I also wonder if the chassis are that similar from inside.


Btw you can install the back door of Olympus OM2000 on a Bessa-R. The bottom plate of om2000 has an extra part in the front due to its SLR body design, if you cut off the extra plastic then you can also install it on a Bessa-R. These two cameras are almost brothers.
Om 2000 has a better finish, with a thin layer of zinc copper alloy on the plastic plates, which is dropped off when they built Bessa-R. It's harder to bend and break in comparison with R's thin, thin plastic, and the paint doesn't chip as easy.
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2018   #12
monopix
Registered User
 
monopix is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnarongi View Post
More precisely, the Cosina CT1 Super chassis and specifications, as far as I've read here: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Cosina_CT1_Super
I don't think there's any difference in the chassis between the CT1 and the CT1 Super. The change was primarily the change of shutter and some styling changes.

Looking at the FM10 and OM2000, they do seem to be on the CT1 chassis but the FX-3 definitley wasn't.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2018   #13
monopix
Registered User
 
monopix is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukecoke View Post
Does Contax 139 have anything to do with Cosina? Or were they just simply using a similar chassis? I know they both came out around 1979. But the 139 is an A mode camera and the layout of the dials are quite different from the series manual SLRs and the Bessas mentioned above, so I also wonder if the chassis are that similar from inside.
AFAIK, Cosina only got involved with Yashica when they built the FX-3 and had no input on the 139. I assume Yashica passed parts/designs of the 139 to Cosina to use. The FX-3 and 139 chassis are very similar; not identical but so close the FX-3 is obviously a derivative of the 139. Cosina used the chassis again in several other cameras including the Contax S2/S2b, the Centon K100 and the Vivitar V3000. In the Centon K100, which uses a different shutter, the original shutter mounts are still there but haven't been drilled out. The chassis appears again in some Chinese models e.g. the Huaxia DC-1 and a couple of Phoenix models. Maybe through Cosina using Chinese companies to assemble some of their models who then copied the design.
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2018   #14
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016


And here it is - a self timer lever for the R2. Not as much filing as I thought it would be, but it still took way too long (total: maybe 4 hours, probably more) and of course it's not perfect. But whatever, it works - and no modifications to the camera parts at all.


More on this, and more on the bessa, later...
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-09-2018   #15
f16sunshine
Moderator
 
f16sunshine's Avatar
 
f16sunshine is offline
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Seattle
Age: 51
Posts: 6,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by monopix View Post
The chassis is a Cosina CT1 chassis which is not the same as a Yashica FX3. That has a chassis that started out in a Contax 139. I can't speak for the Olympus or Nikon.

The shutter is similar but not the same. The Bessas have extra curtains in them.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
Actually, the 139 is a completely different camera.
Electronic shutter. Shutter dial on the left,TTL flash, Electronic shutter button (classic RTS style electromagnetic). etc...
There was a Yashica FXD that was the predecessor of the FX3 but only in styling.
Pretty sure the FX3 is part of the plastic CT1 family.
__________________
Andy
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-10-2018   #16
monopix
Registered User
 
monopix is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by f16sunshine View Post
Actually, the 139 is a completely different camera.
Electronic shutter. Shutter dial on the left,TTL flash, Electronic shutter button (classic RTS style electromagnetic). etc...
There was a Yashica FXD that was the predecessor of the FX3 but only in styling.
Pretty sure the FX3 is part of the plastic CT1 family.
Yes the 139 is a totally different camera but the FX-3 chassis is almost the same. I've worked on more than enough of both of them to know that for a fact. How many have you worked on?
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2018   #17
Mjd-djm
Registered User
 
Mjd-djm is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 153
Just tried to take mine apart. All worked ok except the top just would not come off... it felt like it was still attached above the door hinge (I had already taken the screws under the cover out. So I put it all back together. Any ideas? Am I missing something?
__________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.flickr.com/mjdmjd
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-28-2018   #18
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
 
nukecoke's Avatar
 
nukecoke is offline
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sweden/China
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
Just tried to take mine apart. All worked ok except the top just would not come off... it felt like it was still attached above the door hinge (I had already taken the screws under the cover out. So I put it all back together. Any ideas? Am I missing something?
Pics would help.
__________________
tumblr

flickr(abandoned)

About Film Cameras
  Reply With Quote

Old 04-29-2018   #19
Mjd-djm
Registered User
 
Mjd-djm is offline
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 153
I’ve put the camera back together now. I’ve removed all of the parts shown in the pics. The problem appears to be right on the hinge of the back door at the top. Could it be that it is stuck down with glue? I can see the other end of the top plate starting to lift.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.flickr.com/mjdmjd
  Reply With Quote

Old 11-25-2018   #20
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,291
Interesting thread to see Bessa R series origin.
I have seen plastic gears in Canon FTb.

The reason why I bumped into this thread is my search for R2M lugs misplacement.
FM10 (last Nikon price was 570$ BTW) has them in the same place.
I'm not sure if it is possible to place them in normal position. Is it just drill and glue?

Another solution would be this R grip, which I have zero need for, but it fixes misalignment of lugs problem, while adding bulk.

Yet it introduces another problem, OP 4. Back View shows how camera will looks like without half-case after some use.

R2M drives me nuts, it goes lens up all of the time.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-01-2018   #21
mooge
Registered User
 
mooge is offline
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Austenite Bay, Canada
Age: 27
Posts: 1,016
I have taken apart two FTb(n)s, I don't remember seeing any plastic gears in them unless it was for the meter or the shutter speed display in the finder or something. It was a while ago, but overall I think FTbs are pretty solid.

I think it shouldn't be hard to make offset lugs for the R2 to shift the hang point. I think. maybe I'll add that to the big list of projects I'll probably never get to.
__________________
mjautek on instagram
  Reply With Quote

Old 07-29-2019   #22
Ko.Fe.
Kostya Fedot
 
Ko.Fe.'s Avatar
 
Ko.Fe. is online now
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: MiltON.ONtario
Posts: 7,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooge View Post
I have taken apart two FTb(n)s, I don't remember seeing any plastic gears in them unless it was for the meter or the shutter speed display in the finder or something. It was a while ago, but overall I think FTbs are pretty solid.

I think it shouldn't be hard to make offset lugs for the R2 to shift the hang point. I think. maybe I'll add that to the big list of projects I'll probably never get to.
https://www.photo.net/discuss/thread...indles.501481/

Second image shows what I have seen in FTb. Plastic gear.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 17:24.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.