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Old 10-17-2017   #41
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Originally Posted by Mjd-djm View Post
I seriously doubt they would rerelease any lenses which would detract from sales of their current lineup...
Why? It's not as if these lenses are built by a third party or cheaper than "their current lineup". Do you think Leica would rather sell a 90 Summarit than a $6,500 Thambar.
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Old 10-17-2017   #42
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Canabilism of sales?
Not in the land of the Red Dot.
There would be more than enough takers to re-release the true cult lenses.
Ok,... maybe not the DR but the v4 ?
They could do it... they may do it.
There are enough collectors who own the entire catalog. Those sales alone could float the project.
Any additional sales would be black ink and there would be plenty.

It’s all fun banter but so was the MM and MD and MA....
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Old 10-18-2017   #43
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Originally Posted by Beemermark View Post
When I was a wee lad, we obtained the same look by carefully smearing a little Vaseline on the peripheral of the lens. By leaving the center untouched and varying the amount on the edges it worked quite well.
The Thambar did the opposite! It was supplied with a device that covered the central area, to make the picture using only the periphery! This took advantage of the greater spherical aberration at the edges to soften the focus. When you wanted a sharp picture, you took that thing off and stopped down.
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Old 10-18-2017   #44
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Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
The Thambar did the opposite! It was supplied with a device that covered the central area, to make the picture using only the periphery! This took advantage of the greater spherical aberration at the edges to soften the focus. When you wanted a sharp picture, you took that thing off and stopped down.
Not that I'm an expert, but surely you could smear vaseline in the centre of a filter to get the same effect?
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Old 10-18-2017   #45
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Really not something normal photo taking people would be interested in.
who is normal?
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Old 10-18-2017   #46
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Not that I'm an expert, but surely you could smear vaseline in the centre of a filter to get the same effect?
No, because a normal lens is made to eliminate those problems around the edge, and the effect is not the same.
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Old 10-18-2017   #47
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Just picked up a Canon 100/2 LTM in great shape and sent it off for a CLA. It isn't the Thambar but in the rare moments (once every 5 years) I yearn for the grossly exaggerated spherical aberrations @ ƒ/2, it should be similarly replicated with a gentle application of vaseline to an inexpensive Hoya 58mm filter.
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Old 10-18-2017   #48
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Back in the early 70's an elderly retired friend of mine had one he had bought new. He was kind enough to let me shoot with it. I still have the negs and will try to find them and do a scan or two in the next few days.

It's an interesting lens but one of those things most of us would use three or four times and then windup being put away or sold. I found it's best use as a portrait lens. I find it interesting there was a lack of portrait samples and a lot of marginal landscapes.

I've owned and still own several classic large format soft focus lenses. There were many portrait lenses in the 20's through the 50's. Each model had it own unique look. If you really want to see some stunning soft focus work research soft focus threads on the large format forum. Also research Cooke bi quality and knuckles soft focus portrait, Wollensak Verito, Vitax, vests Portrait, Gundlach Hyperion, Rodenstock Imagon, Kodak 12" portrait soft focus, Ilex Photoplastic and Voigtlander Universal Heliar to name just a few.

There are several methods of achieving the glow with each producing a different look.
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Old 10-18-2017   #49
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Originally Posted by d_c View Post
Not that I'm an expert, but surely you could smear vaseline in the centre of a filter to get the same effect?
I would suggest sticking a black paper circle, maybe 10 or 12 mm diameter, to the center of an old UV filter--preferably one with some cleaning marks. I think an old Summar would be a good candidate for this.
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Old 10-18-2017   #50
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In the 60's a friend glued a nickel to the center of a skylight filter and put it on his 125mm hektor and shot it wide open. The effect was very similar to the Thambar.
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Old 10-18-2017   #51
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Come on... Leica users aren't going to do the often repeated (in this thread alone) vaseline trick. Every time one of these types of lenses comes out there is a ton of responses about vaseline. We all know this has been rereleased because it is an older lens that has gained value on the used market and Leica wants to capitalize on that...let's not pretend it is about some magical look that is worth the money.
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Old 10-18-2017   #52
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I have a plastic lens salvaged from a Polaroid One Step, about 100mm in focal length and working at an aperture of 17mm or f5.9 as mounted on a focusing unit. A soft image with a halo around subjects if used wide open. In fact it reminds me very much of the samples posted with Leica's announcement page. If I insert a f16 stop, about 6.3mm, then almost all the flare and softness disappears and the image sharpens up quite a bit.

The old One Step was a $2 purchase at a thrift store years ago and dismantled to get the first surface mirror out of it. I also saved the lens and vf optics.

Just a quick question. Didn't Leica also have a 73mm f1.9 lens at some point. Seems like I remember reading about it but can't be sure.

Never mind, I found it, ain't google wonderful.
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Old 10-18-2017   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-ray View Post
I find it interesting there was a lack of portrait samples and a lot of marginal landscapes.
Lots of portrait samples here:


http://us.leica-camera.com/Photograp...0-f-2.2/Images
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Old 10-18-2017   #54
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Kazuya Sudo's examples on the Leica site are quiet beautiful and a great example of what can be done with a soft focus lens. Beautiful. The price tag of the lens unfortunately isn't :-(
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Old 10-18-2017   #55
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I wonder if the emphasis and prominence of east Asian photographers in the example photos are an indication of where Leica expects to sell the most lenses?
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Old 10-18-2017   #56
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Talking

A friend many years ago owned one, complete with filter.
I used it and it's not same as Vaseline, or plastic lenses.
One can replicate effect using Rodenstock Imagon.
Pentax 6x7 had one, Nikon also in 105 and 135mm.

Now I don't have US$6500 plus extra $ for filter, etc.!
I suggest an old 90mm Triplet with haze and make filter, with dot in center.
It should be mirror like not black.
Any lens that has haze, separation will with filter be close!

Its great for one usage!
I never borrowed it again, later friend sold it.
Lots of $$$! He was more happy with money!

Last edited by leicapixie : 10-18-2017 at 07:36. Reason: spell error
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Old 10-18-2017   #57
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Originally Posted by Corran View Post
I wonder if the emphasis and prominence of east Asian photographers in the example photos are an indication of where Leica expects to sell the most lenses?
i would certainly think so, good observation
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Old 10-18-2017   #58
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What a rip off.

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Old 10-18-2017   #59
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There is more to abberations than just a center filter.





Regarding the Thambar, I need another tele lens like a hole in my head,

Roland.
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Old 10-18-2017   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
A friend many years ago owned one, complete with filter.
I used it and it's not same as Vaseline, or plastic lenses.
One can replicate effect using Rodenstock Imagon.
Pentax 6x7 had one, Nikon also in 105 and 135mm.

Now i don't have US$6500 plus extra $ for filter, etc.!
I suggest an old 90mm Triplet with haze and make filter, with dot in center.
It should be mirror like not black.
Any lens that has haze, separation will with filter be close!

Its great for one usage!
I never borrowed it again, later friend sold it.
Lots of $$$! He was more happy with money!
I own an Imagon and have shot with the Thambar and they're very different. The imagon is unlike any other soft focus lens. The image is sharp with the imagon but highlights on a glow. The Thambar is soft all over and low in contrast. With the filter on and wide open the Thambar isn't particularly sharp. They're completely different.
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Old 10-18-2017   #61
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If they were trying to reach photographers, they might consider releasing these heritage lenses in thread mount and including an adapter coded for use with digital cameras. Just think, two markets with just one lens.
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Old 10-18-2017   #62
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I wrote "replicate" meaning similar but not exact same.
Imagon indeed different. The Pentax and Nikkors again different.
I never used Vaseline.
I did Fashion and used Softar on Hassie, amazing soft on skin, sharp on textures!, used to print thru "tracing paper:, diffusion screens and use of stocking(not pantyhose) some at exposure some after.
I think its a FUN lens the Thambar with that "filter".
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Old 10-18-2017   #63
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I wonder if the emphasis and prominence of east Asian photographers in the example photos are an indication of where Leica expects to sell the most lenses?
Possibly, but not necessarily for the reason you might be insinuating (new money, collecting mentality, etc.). The hazier, dreamier aesthetic plays more of a role in fine art photography in Japan, China and Korea than it tends to do in the West and Leica are sensibly tapping into that.
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Old 10-18-2017   #64
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Why all this negativity? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

If Leica sells 150 of these lenses, they make an extra $1M. That's an extra million that will go into developing products we might buy (M11?).
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Old 10-18-2017   #65
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If Leica sells 150 of these lenses, they make an extra $1M. That's an extra million that will go into developing products we might buy (M11?).
And in the spirit of the Thambar, they should re-release the M5! Now that everyone has realized that it was the best camera Leica ever made..
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Old 10-18-2017   #66
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M5... lol...
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Old 10-18-2017   #67
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I am not in the least bit critical of Leica for doing this. After all it is only doing what many of us here have been saying - Leica should re release this lens or that camera body. (Its just that the Thambar is not the particular re-released "thing" that some people on this forum want to be re-released).

And at a deeper level Leica is also doing something very worthy. It is being entrepreneurial - it is investing its time and money in a risky venture to earn a return. Isn't that what we demand of private enterprise. It's good for consumers too. Even if this release were to fail it would end up being good for those who bought a new Thambar - their version would be even more sought after and valuable down the track as collectors clamour to get one knowing there would never be more available.

I see nothing but good from this as its a win win for consumers even if its a win lose from Leica's perspective (which I do not think will happen).
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Old 10-18-2017   #68
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I think it's cool they're re releasing old classic lenses. I'd like to see them bring back the original f3.5 5cm Elmar. I think they'd sell a truck load. I think a remake of the v2 Rigid 50 Summicron and DR version would be hugely successful and probably the V1 collapsible would sell well. These old classics are in demand and copies with clean glass are getting harder to find. The v1 35mm Summicron would probably would sell well too.
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Old 10-18-2017   #69
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I think it's cool they're re releasing old classic lenses. I'd like to see them bring back the original f3.5 5cm Elmar. I think they'd sell a truck load. I think a remake of the v2 Rigid 50 Summicron and DR version would be hugely successful and probably the V1 collapsible would sell well. These old classics are in demand and copies with clean glass are getting harder to find. The v1 35mm Summicron would probably would sell well too.

I have noticed that another firm is re-releasing an upgraded modern version of the Jupiter 3 itself a Russian copy of a Zeiss lens. They call it the Jupiter 3+.

http://www.popphoto.com/russian-retr...us_lens_review

This seems to be an increasing trend and I for one am happy to see it.
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Old 10-18-2017   #70
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It is on my To-buy list. Some day.

I love my Rodenstock Imagon and 4x5
I love my near-mint 1.5/5cm Summarit M at F1.5 and F2
I love my heavily scuffed 2/5cm Summar that has lost its black coating all over in the barrel and wobbles so bad there seem to be light leaks from it.

So a Thambar with that wonky ringy bokeh of highlights is right up my alley.

But. (This is the key...) But it's not in the budget.
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Old 10-19-2017   #71
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Originally Posted by ferider View Post
There is more to abberations than just a center filter.





Regarding the Thambar, I need another tele lens like a hole in my head,

Roland.
That looks super cool Roland, love the OOF spider lights!
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Old 10-19-2017   #72
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There is more to abberations than just a center filter.

Regarding the Thambar, I need another tele lens like a hole in my head,

Roland.
Speaking of spiders, I had a real spider story - not on the lens, but inside the camera:

https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...ghlight=spider
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Old 10-19-2017   #73
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I have noticed that another firm is re-releasing an upgraded modern version of the Jupiter 3 itself a Russian copy of a Zeiss lens. They call it the Jupiter 3+.

http://www.popphoto.com/russian-retr...us_lens_review

This seems to be an increasing trend and I for one am happy to see it.
There's a another reissue, the 20/5.6 Russar+. Lomography had been at it for almost a decade, starting with the (not quite a reissue, but a remake for the modern 135 format) Petzval 85/2.2.

The remade Daguerreotype Achromat 64/2.9 is particularly interesting as it has 2 elements in 1 group and Waterhouse plate aperture just like the old timers. The same fuzzy result, for $499.
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Old 10-20-2017   #74
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I think it's cool they're re releasing old classic lenses. I'd like to see them bring back the original f3.5 5cm Elmar. I think they'd sell a truck load. I think a remake of the v2 Rigid 50 Summicron and DR version would be hugely successful and probably the V1 collapsible would sell well. These old classics are in demand and copies with clean glass are getting harder to find. The v1 35mm Summicron would probably would sell well too.
Yes to all that. But knowing Leica, they're more likely to release a stemar
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Old 10-20-2017   #75
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Wait..there's actually a line forming?
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Old 10-20-2017   #76
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As luck has it, I had an original Thambar for a short time and played with it a bit.

It's a difficult lens to control in outdoor ambient light situations,
which makes it tough for street, but for properly controlled studio
and outdoor shaped light situations with a bevy of beautiful women it'd be a dream.

I believe the lens was designed by Max Berek to compensate for some of the limitations imposed by the miniature format at a time when most pro photographers were using medium or large format cameras and pictorialism was still in vogue, which may be on the way back...in art and fashion work.
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Old 10-20-2017   #77
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As luck has it, I had an original Thambar for a short time and played with it a bit.

It's a difficult lens to control in outdoor ambient light situations,
which makes it tough for street, but for properly controlled studio
and outdoor shaped light situations with a bevy of beautiful women it'd be a dream.

I believe the lens was designed by Max Berek to compensate for some of the limitations imposed by the miniature format at a time when most pro photographers were using medium or large format cameras and pictorialism was still in vogue, which may be on the way back...in art and fashion work.
Nice comment.

If only they reissued these in screw mount plus an adapter. I'd love to see my black III with the new Thambar. I would seriously think about the Summaron 5.6 if it was reissued in screw mount. Finding a good '50s copy is hard.
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Old 10-23-2017   #78
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I have an original Thambar in my collection for many years. It is a lens that I have an intense love/hate relationship with. Back when I was shooting professionally in film days, I used it for some wedding pictures. Nothing turned out well, and the bride did not appreciate the effort or the look. Back then, there was no way to pre-visualize the effect you would be getting.

Having just obtained an M10, I thought live view might be the ticket to using this lens. Needless to say, disappointing results again. I was shooting outdoors mid-day, so probably not optimal conditions.

The Thambar is easily the most difficult lens to master I have ever encountered. Those that do are more lucky than good, I think. I'll probably hang on to it since I have owned mine for over 30 years.

I think either a 73/1.9 Hektor or a 125 Hektor would give equal or better results, which I intend to try at some point.
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Old 10-23-2017   #79
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Soft focus lenses don't perform their best when used in flat light. Under low ratio light the images just look muddy and flat. Soft focus lenses do their best with high lighting ratios. 4:1 or greater is the key to that beautiful glow around highlights.

If you look at vintage portraits you'll usually find them to have been shot with hard spotlights not soft light, and the main to fill ratio at 4:1 or greater.
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Old 10-25-2017   #80
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The portraits and other photos here really make the lens seem more interesting, as opposed to awful like the samples before.
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