Old 11-29-2016   #401
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The M5 is the best Leica for people who take photos.
I wonder what forced Leitz to reshape the M5 at the time. What was wrong with the M4 really?

Here is an interesting M6 prototype before Leica came to their senses (about middle of the page) http://gmpphoto.blogspot.de/2014/10/...prototype.html
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Old 11-30-2016   #402
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Originally Posted by Bille View Post
I wonder what forced Leitz to reshape the M5 at the time. What was wrong with the M4 really?
No metering, no shutter speed in vf, no double exposure etc. M5 was the last M designed for actual photography. They would have never put form over function, M3 would have been way uglier if it would have been necessary. Improvements could not overcome the fact that SLR:s ruled because rangefinders were inferior cameras just like some species rule because others are inferior. I am so going to get banned..

M4.2 and later are designed to make old men with small dicks feel better about themselves and they seem to be very good at it. Carrying a rolex is not about knowing what time it is.
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Old 11-30-2016   #403
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Try a Nikon F with Photomic FTn meter head. Then pick up a Leica M5. Then you'll know what the M5 is about.

The M5 tried to put aside the Nikon F, not the M4.

Erik.
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Old 11-30-2016   #404
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Originally Posted by Alfonso B View Post
M4.2 and later are designed to make old men with small dicks feel better about themselves and they seem to be very good at it. Carrying a rolex is not about knowing what time it is.
The M4-2 was about current technology when it was new. I don´t see why it should have catered to old men specifically.

I agree about Rolex and modern Leica to some extent. Note that Leica and Rolex were much more affordable back then though.
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Old 11-30-2016   #405
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Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Try a Nikon F with Photomic FTn meter head. Then pick up a Leica M5. Then you'll know what the M5 is about.

The M5 tried to put aside the Nikon F, not the M4.

Erik.
That Photomic Nikon is one ugly machine.
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Old 11-30-2016   #406
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Not anything against the M5, but to me it is the ugliest M Leica.
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Old 11-30-2016   #407
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Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Leica M5, Nokton 50mm 1.1, Ilford Delta 3200

Would like to add yet more love for this great M5 shot. Don't suppose you would care to guess at the shutter speed from memory and / or whether you shot and devved it for box speed (always hear about 3200 being best at 1000 and so on). I have some in the fridge and would like to develop (no pun intended) my night shooting in such a manner.
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Old 11-30-2016   #408
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Originally Posted by Flat Twin View Post
This was a good thread, lets not ruin it with daft comments like the very recent ones above... If you like the M5 then that's great, if you don't that's great too, just move on
How about starting your "own" M5 appreciation thread and "just move on"?

Also read this:
"I'd love to hear opinions about this camera"
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...85&postcount=1
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Old 11-30-2016   #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
The M5 is the best Leica for people who take photos.
This is how I feel as well after owning one for a while now.
I ended up selling my other M film bodies.
The M7 may surpass the M5 in shooting with aperture priority mode which I really enjoyed using.
But the M5 ended up being the perfect film M for how I like to photograph.
And as a bonus I like the way it looks.
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Old 11-30-2016   #410
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I have owned all the film Leicas made since 1970 including a few made before that date (M3 and M2). I only recently became the owner of a black M5 which has been through Sherry's magic. I can only say that for actual use it puts all the other manual film models to shame.

For those of you who think it is ugly, well that is your opinion and like the saying goes everyone has an opinion. Move on!
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Old 11-30-2016   #411
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Originally Posted by Chromacomaphoto View Post
Would like to add yet more love for this great M5 shot. Don't suppose you would care to guess at the shutter speed from memory and / or whether you shot and devved it for box speed (always hear about 3200 being best at 1000 and so on). I have some in the fridge and would like to develop (no pun intended) my night shooting in such a manner.
I'm pretty sure it was either 1/125 or 1/250. I remember shooting it and looking at my settings after the fact thinking, this is far too underexposed.
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Old 11-30-2016   #412
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Can't move on. It's horrible. Like vw 1303s over a standard beetle. I'm thinking about bidding on a clean one, in box with manuals. Can't see any sense in buying a beat up M5 as they ask 2/3rds of the price.
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Old 11-30-2016   #413
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Hi,

The m5 is just awesome, easy to shoot with, the needles and speed info are great to decide over/sub exposures.
The funny thing is that the hotshoe is not aligned with the center of the lens mount.
So i will find out next friday (when is scan my last roll) if there´s going to be any parallax problem using the 21mm lens and the auxiliary VF.

Cheers,
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Old 11-30-2016   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
I'm pretty sure it was either 1/125 or 1/250. I remember shooting it and looking at my settings after the fact thinking, this is far too underexposed.
Thanks, so I'm guessing at box speed of 3200 too then right? Sorry for mild thread jacking!
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Old 11-30-2016   #415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monochrom View Post
Hi,

The m5 is just awesome, easy to shoot with, the needles and speed info are great to decide over/sub exposures.
The funny thing is that the hotshoe is not aligned with the center of the lens mount.
So i will find out next friday (when is scan my last roll) if there´s going to be any parallax problem using the 21mm lens and the auxiliary VF.

Cheers,
I've never looked through the finder of one as they are not often seen in the shops and circles I go to fondle leicas. Tell me please, is the meter needle visible when shooting in the dark/night or is it harder to see like a Nikon Fe or similar?
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Old 11-30-2016   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromacomaphoto View Post
I've never looked through the finder of one as they are not often seen in the shops and circles I go to fondle leicas. Tell me please, is the meter needle visible when shooting in the dark/night or is it harder to see like a Nikon Fe or similar?
It is fainter in dark situations, but as long as you can find a little bit of light, it will give you at least a little illumination on the needle area, enough to read.
The M5 has a very nice finder and great ergonomics - I like mine very much.
Whether it is aesthetically appealing is subjective - to each her/his own. But as photographers, we're usually behind the camera, using it, rather than looking at it; so for me, handling usually trumps appearance.
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Old 11-30-2016   #417
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Originally Posted by Chromacomaphoto View Post
Thanks, so I'm guessing at box speed of 3200 too then right? Sorry for mild thread jacking!
Sorry 1600, a bit closer to base speed, rather than box speed for delta
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Old 11-30-2016   #418
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I just picked up an M5 in "exc" condition from Tamrakin. Paid 850 shipped to my door.
It's a late model 135XXXX. It has "Memphis Photo Supply" inscribed but that doesn't bother me.
Camera came with the battery converted.

So far I love it. I have big hands so I like the "extra" size. The VF is special. Visible shutter speeds and easy to read needle. also, the overhang shutter speed dial is very, very nice!

Now, I just have to get my eyes used to 35mm film as my primary format is 8x10.
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Old 11-30-2016   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKRCAT View Post
Sorry 1600, a bit closer to base speed, rather than box speed for delta
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajmohan-fotograf View Post
It is fainter in dark situations, but as long as you can find a little bit of light, it will give you at least a little illumination on the needle area, enough to read.
The M5 has a very nice finder and great ergonomics - I like mine very much.
Whether it is aesthetically appealing is subjective - to each her/his own. But as photographers, we're usually behind the camera, using it, rather than looking at it; so for me, handling usually trumps appearance.
Thanks to both of you for the great info, useful and much appreciated.
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Old 12-13-2016   #420
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Old 12-13-2016   #421
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Black M5 from Sherry just got married to a black 50f1.5 ASPH Nokton and it is a gorgeous combo. The Nokton is lighter then my chrome 50 Summicron. It is going to Mexico with me at the end of the week.
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Old 12-13-2016   #422
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That Photomic Nikon is one ugly machine.
But you can always swap it out for the beautiful plain prism...
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Old 12-13-2016   #423
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Not anything against the M5, but to me it is the ugliest M Leica.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I think the M5 is beautiful and exquisite.
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Old 12-28-2016   #424
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Old 12-29-2016   #425
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If anyone is looking for a M5, I have one for sale in the classifieds
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Old 12-29-2016   #426
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Old 12-29-2016   #427
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Old 12-29-2016   #428
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Great pictures, BLKRCAT!

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Old 12-29-2016   #429
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Originally Posted by Alfonso B View Post
No metering, no shutter speed in vf, no double exposure etc. M5 was the last M designed for actual photography. They would have never put form over function, M3 would have been way uglier if it would have been necessary. Improvements could not overcome the fact that SLR:s ruled because rangefinders were inferior cameras just like some species rule because others are inferior. I am so going to get banned..

M4.2 and later are designed to make old men with small dicks feel better about themselves and they seem to be very good at it. Carrying a rolex is not about knowing what time it is.
If I am reading you correctly, the M5 was an attempt by Leica to seize the initiative from the SLR manufacturers and regain the technological cutting edge. After the M5 flopped Leica went back to compensating for having lost the technical advantage by producing cameras that offered style and quaintness - right?

Two considerations then: If technological innovation is the measure of "actual photography" then the M3 should also be considered a 'real' camera because when it was first introduced it dramatically changed 35mm photography.

Second, if innovating technical aids to shooting is so important why bother old film cameras at all? You should be shooting the latest high tech digital cameras - seems to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik van Straten View Post
Try a Nikon F with Photomic FTn meter head. Then pick up a Leica M5. Then you'll know what the M5 is about.

The M5 tried to put aside the Nikon F, not the M4.

Erik.
Was it better than the Nikon? It certainly failed to regain market share for Leica.
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Old 12-29-2016   #430
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Originally Posted by traveler_101 View Post

Was it better than the Nikon? It certainly failed to regain market share for Leica.
1. Yes, it was better, but it was also too expensive. The salary level in the affluent West-Germany was too high.

2. People wanted zoom lenses.

3. Leitz made a very stupid move with the Leica CL.

These were the main reasons that the M5 failed to regain a market share. Not the quality of the camera. The quality of the camera is outstanding.

Erik.
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Old 12-29-2016   #431
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1. Yes, it was better, but it was also too expensive. The salary level in the affluent West-Germany was too high.

2. People wanted zoom lenses.

3. Leitz made a very stupid move with the Leica CL.

These were the main reasons that the M5 failed to regain a market share. Not the quality of the camera. The quality of the camera is outstanding.

Erik.
Nicely and carefully worded reply Erik. I lived through all those ventures by Leitz, and by the way owned their equipment at that time, and still do; but you could not convince me on the M5 at that time. They tried to get at the Nikon F market in 1965 with the Leicaflex, and that went by the way side. Working in a large firm in Toronto at that time doing 4 color separations; the (2) cameras that dominated the transparencies coming in, was the Nikon F and the for ever great Hasselblad. The Nikon F had "all" the market.
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Old 12-29-2016   #432
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I also just noticed Erik you replying about the Meter readings. Yes, I agree with you on the 21 degree "spot reading" inside the M5 in (Horizontal mode only). Very well thought out; but that's why Gossen had made a couple of meters which I use all the time, with the 7.5 and 15 degree angle readings. I'm the type of person that always checks readings between the camera and hand held Gossen before I shoot. This meter system in the M5 is probably the only great talking point today, outside of having good collector value too due to the low quantity made.
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Old 12-30-2016   #433
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Erm — are you blaming Leica because they were paying their workers decent wages?
Yes, the wages were decent, but too decent for producing such a hand made camera.

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Old 01-01-2017   #434
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Old 01-04-2017   #435
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Old 01-04-2017   #436
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Love the last two uploads!

Great shots as usual BLKRCAT and Erik

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Old 01-04-2017   #437
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Love the last two uploads!

Great shots as usual BLKRCAT and Erik

Giulio
Thank you, Giulio.

I also like BLKRCAT's picture a lot.

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Old 01-04-2017   #438
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....

3. Leitz made a very stupid move with the Leica CL.

....

Erik.
+1 to this one. It created an in house competitor for the M5. Pretty stupid move IMHO.

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Old 01-04-2017   #439
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I wonder what forced Leitz to reshape the M5 at the time. What was wrong with the M4 really?

Here is an interesting M6 prototype before Leica came to their senses (about middle of the page) http://gmpphoto.blogspot.de/2014/10/...prototype.html
I suppose they reshape it to fit the TTL metering. M6 used a pretty different TTL metering approach that allowed them for a slimmer form. Lets remember that M5 was one of the first attempt at TTL on rangefinders.


Been using M5 lately and, even though I thought it will feel uncomfortable on hand, I find it pretty fun to use. It just fit the shooting experience, it makes the process so easy and fun. My thoughts are that it was designed for the shooting, not for the looks.


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Old 01-04-2017   #440
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+1 to this one. It created an in house competitor for the M5. Pretty stupid move IMHO.

Regards.
Actually the M5 stood on it's own for almost 3 years before the CL came out. I believe the 5 came out in '71, and the CL '73. Totally different in our hands at that time compared to the M3's and 4's that all us Leica fans were using. And I remember many guys buying new lenses for their 3's and 4's at that time which no doubt helped Leitz through this period.
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