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Old 11-15-2016   #41
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The original Leicaflex (sometimes called the "Standard"), second version, is the SLR equivalent of an M4 (M3 if you prefer) equipped with a Leicameter.

The detractors of this camera sometimes describe it as "an M3 with reflex viewing". I believe this description answers the question posed by the OP.

The Leicaflex certainly feels, in use, like one of Wetzlar's finest. My Nikons, F and F2, do not.
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Old 11-15-2016   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
... meh.

What is "mechanical" in M and SLR? Shutter advance and shutter sound.
I'm not aware of any SLR with same advance level as in M, all SLRs I have tried have it different from M. Shutter sound... On M3 at 1/1000 it is quick kiss, no mirror. On 1 it is rattling of sand, still no mirror.
Nikon F2h was pretty equal in quietness to my M6 when I held one and dry-fired on a few years back. Didn't and still don't have the cash.....

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Old 11-15-2016   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oftheherd View Post
I am not a Leica person, but I thought of the mechanical Leica M as meter-less. ...
All Leica M cameras have the M-Bayonet lens mount.
All Leica M cameras have mechanically timed shutters except the M7 model.
Leica M5, M6 + variants, M7, and current production MP have meters built in.

So SLRs with mechanically timed shutters all apply regardless of whether they have a meter.

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Old 11-15-2016   #44
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I shoot Leica and Nikon. But once I tried the Pentax MX. I liked it more than the FM2/Fm3a which I have owned. The shutter is superb.
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Old 11-15-2016   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
Always wondered about this one. Which one do people consider the SLR equivalent of the mechanical Leica M's?
There is no equivalent. My gut feeling however says early Konica.




Would love to hear Tom As opinion on the matter.
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Old 11-15-2016   #46
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Leica R6.2 or Nikon F
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Old 11-15-2016   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bille View Post
There is no equivalent. My gut feeling however says early Konica.
I forgot how sweat the early ones were, thanks for the reminder!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bille View Post

Would love to hear Tom As opinion on the matter.
Bill P too please and thank you.

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Old 11-15-2016   #48
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I read the OP's inquiry as intended to emphasize the quintessential qualities of a Leica M as an overall package. The qualities that come to mind are simplicity, all mechanical operation, compact size, refinement, uncluttered and simple viewfinder, quiet shutter, and excellent lenses.

When I think of a classic Leica M, I don't necessarily think of extreme toughness (rangefinders can be knocked out alignment fairly easily), large size, heavy weight, LED diodes, automatic exposure, etc.

Viewed in this light, I think Olympus OM-1. About the same size as a Leica M, viewfinder is completely uncluttered (except for very small match needle display), very quiet and well damped shutter and mirror, all mechanical, well built, nice feel, and excellent lenses.

While some have suggested the Pentax MX (also a very fine camera), the light diodes in the viewfinder and less well damped mirror/shutter assembly make it a bit less Leica like IMHO.
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Old 11-15-2016   #49
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The newest equivalent to Leica handling and ease of use (if you don't get caught up in the menus) isn't a DSLR, it's a mirrorless Sony RX1rII. As soon as I put on a ThumbsUp and a grip, I felt like I had an updated M4 in my hand.

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Old 11-15-2016   #50
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Depends on what you're equating.
Quiet, small, and only useful with lenses 135mm and under: Exa.
Fit and finish, viewfinder: Leicaflex.
Reliability and durability: Nikon F.
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Old 11-15-2016   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p.giannakis View Post
Always wondered about this one. Which one do people consider the SLR equivalent of the mechanical Leica M's?
From another perspective, there's a good case to be made for the Canon Pellix. Because it has no mirror slap, and no viewfinder black out, just like a rangefinder, and apart from the meter it's completely mechanical. The Pellix also has certain deficiencies (some of which were improved substantially by Canon years later, with the RT and EOS-1N RS) but that is beside the point. Functionally, it's far closer to a rangefinder than most SLRs.
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Old 11-15-2016   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtcls100 View Post
I read the OP's inquiry as intended to emphasize the quintessential qualities of a Leica M as an overall package. The qualities that come to mind are simplicity, all mechanical operation, compact size, refinement, uncluttered and simple viewfinder, quiet shutter, and excellent lenses.

When I think of a classic Leica M, I don't necessarily think of extreme toughness (rangefinders can be knocked out alignment fairly easily), large size, heavy weight, LED diodes, automatic exposure, etc.

Viewed in this light, I think Olympus OM-1. About the same size as a Leica M, viewfinder is completely uncluttered (except for very small match needle display), very quiet and well damped shutter and mirror, all mechanical, well built, nice feel, and excellent lenses.

While some have suggested the Pentax MX (also a very fine camera), the light diodes in the viewfinder and less well damped mirror/shutter assembly make it a bit less Leica like IMHO.
I can totally respect that reasoning, and though i prefer the MX, the OM-1 is still brilliant. but the LEDs are part of why i like the MX more than the Olympus. The OM match-needle meter is much harder for me to see. partly because its not illuminated at all and partly because its in the corner. the k1000 doesnt give me this issue.
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Old 11-15-2016   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Pentax SV, on feel and features, though not alas reliability. For me, nothing else even comes close.
Many are throwing in Oly SLRs, that have meters and the OP didn't say which Ms he had in mind. But the Pentax Spotmatic (with feel and features AND reliability) really is like your SV; very much like a Leica M with a meter.
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Old 11-15-2016   #54
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The Pentax MX.

Almost as small as a Barnack, impressive range of lenses, preview lever (push the self timer the opposite direction) and all mechanical shutter speeds. The battery is just for the meter.
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Old 11-16-2016   #55
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I would say Nikon F.
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Old 11-16-2016   #56
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Originally Posted by brennanphotoguy View Post
The Nikon F.
yep, a no brainer.

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Old 11-16-2016   #57
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Bottom line, I'd say the Nikon F is the winner.

The old Pentax models come close, and the pre-Minolta Leicaflex models are good contenders.

OM's, later Pentax models, ... fail my tests. They weren't designed to last the way the early Ms and the F were.
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Old 11-16-2016   #58
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Hi,

The Pentax Spotmatic comes nearest to my way of thinking, then the K1000. Both have meters but so what...

BTW, I think of them all as workhorses.

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Old 11-16-2016   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwig View Post
Bottom line, I'd say the Nikon F is the winner.

The old Pentax models come close, and the pre-Minolta Leicaflex models are good contenders.

OM's, later Pentax models, ... fail my tests. They weren't designed to last the way the early Ms and the F were.
Hi,

I'm always amazed at the number of cameras that weren't supposed to last that are still around.

And the more I think about it the more I'm convinced it's got a lot to do with how they were looked after and treated. If I spent as much on each of my cameras as I did on the M2 (for example) then they'd all be as good as new, if not better.

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Old 11-16-2016   #60
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Leica R6.2 is almost literally the same, with the addition of a prism.
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Old 11-16-2016   #61
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I agree with David. I've got two OM's, an RTS, XA, and a Vitessa T still going strong. It has to do with how they were cared for.

Oh, and to stay on topic the mechanical OM's are the closest to Leica M's.
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Old 11-16-2016   #62
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I would say the Pentax MX and or Nikon F with plain prism
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Old 11-16-2016   #63
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Since most of the SLRs have meters and Leicas before the M5 do not (with exception of the M4-2 and M4-P) only a few hobbled SLRs can be considered.
Early Nikon F with cloth shutter curtains.
Pentax Spotmatic without batteries or with a broken light meter.
Pentax H1a.

Anything with a vertical travelling shutter is out. A working light meter is out unless we're talking Leica M5, M6, M6TTL or M7. In those cases, a metered Nikon F with cloth shutter or similarly built working Spotmatic would do. Shutters that go higher than 1/1000 disqualify the SLR analogue to the mechanical Leica Ms so no F2, no Pentax LX but the MX would be a suitable analogue to the M6.

Just my opinion.
As for the original question, I'm not sure what it is. Size? Ergonomics? Features? Weaknesses? Lens mount legacy?

I know folks say a Leica M can drive in nails but I put my M4 through hell in combat and after one bad fall it needed repair. I fixed it with a pocket knife, channel locks and a set of jewelers screwdrivers. But it needed ~$800 worth in repair after I got back to the states. So they are not bricks.
The most durable camera I've ever seen is a Nikon F2 which was "tossed" out the back of a C-130 over a site in Afghanistan, buried itself a few inches in the earth then was dug out and worked fine. The whole story is that a recon drop's sled wasn't properly tied down and when it hit the desert floor, everything shattered, laptops, Nikon F4s, Nikon D1s and the only camera that survived was this lone F2.

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Old 11-19-2016   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Since most of the SLRs have meters and Leicas before the M5 do not (with exception of the M4-2 and M4-P) only a few hobbled SLRs can be considered.
Early Nikon F with cloth shutter curtains.
Pentax Spotmatic without batteries or with a broken light meter.
Pentax H1a.

Anything with a vertical travelling shutter is out. A working light meter is out unless we're talking Leica M5, M6, M6TTL or M7. In those cases, a metered Nikon F with cloth shutter or similarly built working Spotmatic would do. Shutters that go higher than 1/1000 disqualify the SLR analogue to the mechanical Leica Ms so no F2, no Pentax LX but the MX would be a suitable analogue to the M6.

Just my opinion.
As for the original question, I'm not sure what it is. Size? Ergonomics? Features? Weaknesses? Lens mount legacy? ... Snip!
Hi,

That's almost my reaction when I first read the opening post to this thread. And I wondered if all the mechanical M's had the same specification. And if not, then which one should we be matching?

How about, heavy, tough, no meter, horizontal cloth shutter and based on the various versions of the Barnacks and intended to replace them? Then we get (Ta Da!) the Zenit...

Of course it will fail on price, country of origin and ease of film loading but that's life.

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Old 11-19-2016   #65
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Old 11-19-2016   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graybeard View Post
The original Leicaflex (sometimes called the "Standard"), second version, is the SLR equivalent of an M4 (M3 if you prefer) equipped with a Leicameter.


The Leicaflex certainly feels, in use, like one of Wetzlar's finest. My Nikons, F and F2, do not.
True but the Nikons simply work! My "F"'s have worked really hard in stressful, dangerous situations.
Banged, dropped, used as shield for "incoming".

The Pentax MX very close tp perfect in small, at expense of strength.
Well worth using, though.
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Old 11-19-2016   #67
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Nowhere near the quality of a Leica, but I once got a Zenit-C in trade. Tiny, oh so tiny, SLR.

Unfortunately, the ribbon shutter had some issues and I never got around to getting it fixed
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Old 11-19-2016   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Since most of the SLRs have meters and Leicas before the M5 do not (with exception of the M4-2 and M4-P) only a few hobbled SLRs can be considered.
Early Nikon F with cloth shutter curtains.
Phil Forrest
M4-2'and M4-p do not have meters.
The Nikon F2 with the meterless de1 head would be a consideration. No batteries required and better ergos than the F.

I'm not sure would describe any rf camera as being able to drive in nails. The rf mechanism is too delicate for that. But from what I have seen Leica Ms are tougher than Zeiss Ikons, Konica RFs etc.
Toughest camera I have by far is the Nikonos V.
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Old 11-19-2016   #69
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Pentax SV.
Leicaflex is beautiful and has a magnificent viewfinder but handles differently from an M.
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Old 11-20-2016   #70
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Hi,

And what SLR compares to the Leica M1, MD, MDa and MD-2?

When you look at the range of M's it's obvious that there just isn't a standard version. Perhaps we should have started by agreeing what was an M and then agreed about what we are comparing; that was the point of my posts.

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Old 11-20-2016   #71
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For me the essence of the M is the rangefinder. That makes it pretty clear how many equivalent SLRs there are.
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Old 11-20-2016   #72
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Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
For me the essence of the M is the rangefinder. That makes it pretty clear how many equivalent SLRs there are.
You must mean one of the Alpa models, Eg a Prisma or, say, a 7, then, yes?
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Old 11-20-2016   #73
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This like a lot of other topics has been debated over multiple times and unless it's just for a bit of fun I can't see the point. If you want an M that is an SLR then get a visoflex.
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Old 11-20-2016   #74
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You must mean one of the Alpa models, Eg a Prisma or, say, a 7, then, yes?
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Do they have a rangefinder
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Old 11-20-2016   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom.w.bn View Post
Do they have a rangefinder
They do. As true hybrid SLR/rangefinder cameras, I find them fascinating, technically.
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Old 11-26-2016   #76
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Trying to prove my point on Konica. No?



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Old 11-27-2016   #77
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I'm quite fond of my Nikon F with the plain prism even if I don't use it too often. (Too fond of my M bodies I guess)
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Old 11-27-2016   #78
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Leica R6.2 !!!!!!!!!!!!
This... It handles like a M6 ttl.
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Old 11-27-2016   #79
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Old 11-27-2016   #80
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Nikon F all the way
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