Urgent help needed! - Opened box of bulk film
Old 05-31-2016   #1
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Urgent help needed! - Opened box of bulk film

Hi Guys,

I ordered a box of rollei 100 from Macodirect. After painful a month of shipping finally the boxed arrived but there was a surprise. The tapes on the box's lid were cut so the box was probably opened. Then I opened because I thought there will be another box or something. And saw the film in the black bag. I think the bag wasnt sealed (which is silly to be designed that way!) then without further rolling the bag I put the bag inside the box (I didnt take out the film). So there is a possibility now that either the box (and the bag) were open at the customs and the whole film is burned or I opened it first time but didnt open the bag so may be little damage was done to the film.

What is the best way to proceed? I emailed the provider and waiting for the reply. Anyone else faced with similar problems?

I plan to cut a half roll tonight, take some shots and develop it to see the damage. How could I be sure if the rest of the film or whole or partly damaged?

Thanks in advance!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...dvYlEwMW1KMG5F
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Old 05-31-2016   #2
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
Hi Guys,

I ordered a box of rollei 100 from Macodirect. After painful a month of shipping finally the boxed arrived but there was a surprise. The tapes on the box's lid were cut so the box was probably opened. Then I opened because I thought there will be another box or something. And saw the film in the black bag. I think the bag wasnt sealed (which is silly to be designed that way!) then without further rolling the bag I put the bag inside the box (I didnt take out the film). So there is a possibility now that either the box (and the bag) were open at the customs and the whole film is burned or I opened it first time but didnt open the bag so may be little damage was done to the film.

What is the best way to proceed? I emailed the provider and waiting for the reply. Anyone else faced with similar problems?

I plan to cut a half roll tonight, take some shots and develop it to see the damage. How could I be sure if the rest of the film or whole or partly damaged?

Thanks in advance!
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-...dvYlEwMW1KMG5F
There's only one way to definitely know whether a film is fogged or not, and that is to develop it. I think that if I was in your situation I would probably load the entire roll into canisters, with three short rolls loaded at various parts of the beginning, centre and near the end of the bulk roll, noting carefully, which is which. Expose these with some unimportant shots and process them.

If they all come out OK, you're good to go. If they're fogged, it's probably reasonable to assume that the film from the loaded rolls adjacent these portions of the bulk roll will be fogged as well. It's the only way you are going to know for certain what the status of the film is.
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Old 05-31-2016   #3
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I have only 5 canisters. I cant load all. Are we not safe if the first canister is ok? As it is the outermost layer in the roll?
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Old 05-31-2016   #4
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Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
I have only 5 canisters. I cant load all. Are we not safe if the first canister is ok? As it is the outermost layer in the roll?
If you're saying you don't know whether or not the package has been opened, I don't know how you can assume any of it is safe. If it's been tampered with the entire roll might be fogged to varying degrees, from completely stuffed to fogged edges depending on how long it might have been exposed to light for and how intense any light sources were. Perhaps I misunderstood your post, but from what you wrote it sounded like you don't know how the film was handled when it was in transit? I understand the answer you want to hear but, please, tell me how else you'll gain any certainty, other than as I have suggested?

I really do not know why anybody still bothers with re-usable canisters if they are using a camera that accepts standard 35mm types. Any film lab is usually happy to let you raid their bins and take home as many dozen spent canisters as you need. Providing they are not cutting the ends off or peeling them apart to extract the films they will be fine for a few more rolls. They're generally free. They've only had one prior film through them so with a little attention to their cleanliness and overall condition there is little risk of damaging your new film or leaking light. The latter being something I have seen with re-usable canisters in the past that were no longer in optimum condition (not my own, I do not use them as you may have gathered, but I have processed films for others who loaded re-usable ones). All you need to do is to tape the end of the bulk roll neatly to the stub of the original film and away you go. (I tape both sides for security with normal sticky tape, never had a single issue). Why pay for something you can get as many as you need of for free? Recycle!
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Old 05-31-2016   #5
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how many canisters do I need for 30m roll? I can try to find used ones at home but there is not many shops in Turkey keeping film, even for display purposes.

You say short rolls at 3 different places. How many shots for those test rolls? 10-15 shots per roll is enough?

And I would also need to know how to analyze is after developing. How do I understand fogging etc.
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Old 05-31-2016   #6
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My daughter once opened a bulk roll of mine, the first roll was toast, but the next was fine as was the rest of the roll. Except the edges which were fogged to the perforations without effecting the image. If it was still rolled tight then it might be okay.
I'd take a short roll off the top and shoot and develop it, if it's okay then cool, if not contact the seller, I wouldn't bother rolling it all out if the first roll is no good.
It'll be 20 or so 36 exposure rolls per 30m.
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Old 05-31-2016   #7
Sarcophilus Harrisii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelwj View Post
My daughter once opened a bulk roll of mine, the first roll was toast, but the next was fine as was the rest of the roll. Except the edges which were fogged to the perforations. If it was still rolled tight then it might be okay.
I'd take a short roll off the top and shoot and develop it, if it's okay then cool, if not contact the seller, I wouldn't bother rolling it all out if the first roll is no good.
It'll be 20 or so 36 exposure rolls per 30m.
Well that is a good point indeed, so obvious, that I didn't even think to mention it, so thank you for doing so. If the first roll is just fine it's reasonable to assume the remainder very likely will be. But if not you'd need to load further rolls in order to ascertain just how far into the roll any fogging extends.
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Old 05-31-2016   #8
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thank you guys. I will load the first roll tonight to see it! Thank you for your help.
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Old 05-31-2016   #9
ColSebastianMoran
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If it's rolled tightly, then probably some burnt edges and a few bad feet at the beginning. I say discard the first few feet, then do a test roll. If the edges are clean, then you are in good shape. Even if edges exposed, the image area may be OK.

Strange to get a bulk roll that's been opened.

Reminder to self: Changing bag for exploration.
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Old 05-31-2016   #10
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"Reminder to self: Changing bag for exploration."

Exactly! It is also strange that the black plastic bag has open end. Why not sealing for such cases?
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websites:
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Old 05-31-2016   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
If it's rolled tightly, then probably some burnt edges and a few bad feet at the beginning. I say discard the first few feet, then do a test roll. If the edges are clean, then you are in good shape. Even if edges exposed, the image area may be OK.

Strange to get a bulk roll that's been opened.


Reminder to self: Changing bag for exploration.
Customs officials in some countries are pretty dim and arrogant. I've heard of the same problem in China -- with specially cut ultra large format film!

Cheers,

R.
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Old 05-31-2016   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
"Reminder to self: Changing bag for exploration."

Exactly! It is also strange that the black plastic bag has open end. Why not sealing for such cases?
No need. The box keeps the bag closed, unless some cretin opens the box in daylight. Imagine the difficulty of hacking your way into a sealed bag in complete darkness.

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R.
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Old 05-31-2016   #13
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Some if not most manufactures seal the box, but leave the plastic bag unsealed. So far I don't have problems with this. Same with photo paper.

But it should have tape at beginning of the roll.

Some are using scraped single use cassettes. I have tried it and switched to metal reusable cassettes. Around twenty of them since 2012 and after hundreds of meters of film they provide me fast, hassle free reloading.

If it is one camera, one bulk of the film, five reusable cassettes will do.
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Old 05-31-2016   #14
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I also found bulk loading quite tricky.
In your case, 1st roll would be tossed for sure. However you may still suffer of foggy negatives randomly later rolls, depends on how the bulk film was exposed to light.
For the canisters, I go to my local lab and take them for free after film is developed.


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Old 05-31-2016   #15
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Yes I developed the first roll and it is completely black, only not on where the tape was. To understand the rest I need to load all into canisters and get 3 random rolls as suggested by one member above. What a shame. It is my first attempt tp use bulk loading and this happens.

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Old 06-06-2016   #16
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After third try, I found the unexposed part of the film approximately at 10 meter. I attach the photo of it. macodirect was late answering my inquiry but they were very helpful afterwards, they offered a full refund. I asked for couple of rolls for that 10m damage
.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-i...ew?usp=sharing
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Contax G2 + 45mm & 28mm
Contax RX + Zeiss 50mm f1.4
Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
Fed 3 + jupiter-12
Sony NEX 7


websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
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Old 06-07-2016   #17
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I recently received a 100 ft of Rollei IR and the inner bag was sealed with a piece of tape rather than totally unsealed. They may package 100 differently; I don't know.

I am also waiting for an order from Macodirect to the US - I am crossing fingers that I don't have similar problems!
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Old 06-07-2016   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
After third try, I found the unexposed part of the film approximately at 10 meter.
Whew! What a relief!

As to scavenging used cassettes from labs: Which brands still leave the ends un-crimped so that they can be reused?
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Old 06-07-2016   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeicaFoReVer View Post
After third try, I found the unexposed part of the film approximately at 10 meter. I attach the photo of it. macodirect was late answering my inquiry but they were very helpful afterwards, they offered a full refund. I asked for couple of rolls for that 10m damage.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-i...ew?usp=sharing
This is what my roll looked like the whole way through apart from the first roll. Good to hear that the lesson has not been too expensive - I doubt you'll do it again. Now don't give the unopened 30m roll to a curious 4 year old, the results are the same as customs officials!

Don't give up on bulk rolling though, I find it relaxing sitting down at the end of the day and rolling a few off. (I know that sounds a bit weird...)
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Old 06-07-2016   #20
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Haha I am still stressed while rolling as I am afraid of making mistake. I realized that the lid on my loading machine might pop up while rolling so I have to hold it tight.

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websites:
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Old 06-07-2016   #21
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go for the refund. and they really should be taping the bag shut.
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Old 06-08-2016   #22
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I didnt ask for the refund. They offered but I needed film so asked them to re-send. However the same day in the evening I realized that the roll is partially damaged so I asked for 6 rolls of RPX 100. Even if the bag was shut, a curious customs offical might break the bag and look inside. On the other hand they are guilty because they didnt put any warning on the box and they have a staff with Turkish origin. Next time they said they will use UPS and put a warning in the box so we will hopefully be ok.
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Fed 3 + jupiter-12
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websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
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Old 06-08-2016   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Customs officials in some countries are pretty dim and arrogant. I've heard of the same problem in China -- with specially cut ultra large format film!

Cheers,

R.
Good to see your name Roger, been a while-- If I can recover a bit, I may yet show up on your doorstep with a good bottle of something worthwhile-- potable at least.

Add TSA folks to the dim-- I was told the x ray density of paper matches some of what they are looking for-- I gave my good friend Zuzana two boxes of Oriental Seagull paper to carry back to Seattle, -- I processed a few sheets to check for fog, it was fine.

TSA gave her an argument about opening the boxes, promised to open it in dark, yada yada, to verify that it was paper, and of course, opened it in the light in a back room managing to totally destroy it.

Some bulk films can survive somewhat, I have found it relates to the density of the unprocessed film-- e.g. a roll of color is much more likely to cost you only a few exposures, and BW is more likely to be quickly totally ruined.

Square books in your luggage will get it opened-- you know, the movies all have the dangerous stuff in square blocks--

Regards, my friend,

John
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Old 06-13-2016   #24
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An update - I received my Maco direct order after more than 2 weeks. But, it seemed to arrive just fine in a sealed box - it was labeled Photographic Material " Do Not X-Ray".

Other than shipping via Useless DHL, no problems with Maco Direct - and cheap, too...
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Old 06-13-2016   #25
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Hi GDI,

another update from me. They sent me 6 rolls of RPX 100 for 10 meter damaged film and put 10 empty metal cassettes for free. Yes I find DHL useless and very slow too. They will send me the bulk film next time with UPS. Mine didnt have any warning on the box.
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Olympus OM-4 + 24mm f2.8 + 35mm f2
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websites:
http://www.blurb.com/user/store/aykutkaraca
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