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SLRs - the unRF For those of you who must talk about SLRs, if only to confirm they are not RF.

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Old 05-24-2016   #161
CliveC
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Canon is the Toyota of cameras. Reliable, performs well, but uninteresting. They probably feel like they don't have to be interesting to be successful. To a large extent, that's probably true. To go back to look for a cool Canon, you'll probably be looking at the Canon Photura, if not the Canon Dial half frame.
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Old 05-24-2016   #162
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When i was shooting for my high school newspaper and yearbook in the early 80s, i had a Minolta XG-M. The 'head' photographer had a Nikon. I coveted it. It was black. Mine was chrome.... Nikon wa9s the 'pro' choice.

Later, after college, when choosing my first 'pro' camera, i automatically thought first of Nikon. But, i decided to find out what systems my favorite (fashion) photographers were using, and 10-to-1 it was Canon EOS. I read the (prime) lenses were better for that kind of work, and the AF was great, as evidenced by all the sports fotogs shooting them. I bought an EOS 1-something.

But, even though i still have a Canon as the longest-tenured piece of gear, i always coveted Nikons. So, along the way, i made excuses to buy Nikon film cameras. I just always preferred the way the bodies were designed, and i liked the heritage that survived with the lens mount. I started with an FE2, which i still have. Later tried the F4. An F100, then an F6, then back to the F100 which i still have. An F80. The FG i wanted when i was a kid.... And, even though, with the EOS3 and then 5D, 5D, i remained 'a Canon guy,' I've had many more Nikon bodies than Canons.

Cool? If you're a fashion pro, you're likely using a 5D or above. But, those 5Ds, as ubiquitous and functional as they are, just aren't 'cool.' Canon decided to put an 'idiot dial' on a $3000 camera, a choice i will never respect. I understand they don't want to poach 1-series sales, but the thing costs three grand+ — it shouldn't look like a Rebel. On the other side, Nikon's mid-priced cameras still look serious and professional. Which matches their marketing strategies....

Canon always advertised for consumer appeal. The Newcombe AE-1(?) and Agassi Rebel crap.... And, Nikon was going to the Moon and such. That imagery lasts, as kids grow up with it and become consumers of higher-priced gear.

Not sure if the FD > EOS mount is really responsible. I have had every opportunity to go back and buy an F1 or something. They're beautiful cameras, too, but there's no lore or mythology about them. I barely have interest. I'd rather have an FM3a at this point. Black.
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Old 05-24-2016   #163
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Canon is the Toyota of cameras. Reliable, performs well, but uninteresting. They probably feel like they don't have to be interesting to be successful. To a large extent, that's probably true. To go back to look for a cool Canon, you'll probably be looking at the Canon Photura, if not the Canon Dial half frame.
God forbid that we only have cameras to take pictures with.
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Old 05-24-2016   #164
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Canon is the cool brand now because of the white lenses. Pure fashion.

I tell my photo students to get what they prefer because both are essentially equally good at taking pictures. They overwhelmingly get Canon.
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Old 05-24-2016   #165
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the t90 changed the shape of cameras, literally!
that was a cool camera...
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Old 05-24-2016   #166
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the t90 changed the shape of cameras, literally!
that was a cool camera...
Also doubles as a bludgeon if you encounter a mugger.
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Old 05-24-2016   #167
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Also doubles as a bludgeon if you encounter a mugger.
multi purpose is good...
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Old 05-24-2016   #168
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Originally Posted by CK Dexter Haven View Post
When i was shooting for my high school newspaper and yearbook in the early 80s, i had a Minolta XG-M. The 'head' photographer had a Nikon. I coveted it. It was black. Mine was chrome.... Nikon wa9s the 'pro' choice.

Later, after college, when choosing my first 'pro' camera, i automatically thought first of Nikon. But, i decided to find out what systems my favorite (fashion) photographers were using, and 10-to-1 it was Canon EOS. I read the (prime) lenses were better for that kind of work, and the AF was great, as evidenced by all the sports fotogs shooting them. I bought an EOS 1-something.

But, even though i still have a Canon as the longest-tenured piece of gear, i always coveted Nikons. So, along the way, i made excuses to buy Nikon film cameras. I just always preferred the way the bodies were designed, and i liked the heritage that survived with the lens mount. I started with an FE2, which i still have. Later tried the F4. An F100, then an F6, then back to the F100 which i still have. An F80. The FG i wanted when i was a kid.... And, even though, with the EOS3 and then 5D, 5D, i remained 'a Canon guy,' I've had many more Nikon bodies than Canons.
This is very similar to my outlook. I've had an AE1 Program, an AE1, an A1, a T90 and a new F1 but sold all of them in preference of the FE, F2S and F3 that I have today. I have two 1Vs but cannot seem to sell the F4 that I have: even though the Canons are - in my option - better all-round performers.

I bought a 1D MarkIin over a D2HS or D2XS based on the (at least on paper) better performance. It was great, and I have transitioned - via a 1D Mark III - to the 1D Mark IV that I have today. Yet I still bought a D700 (which was sold to fund the latest 1D) which I loved using with the AI lenses that I have. Indeed, I thought in some ways, this combination was very satisfying to use: a mixture of the MF that I love with the convenience of digital. I even considered calling Wex and buying the camera back!

Even now, I'm looking at the D4 prices and wondering whether to sell all of the Canon gear and move firmly into the Nikon camp.

This was the reason for starting this thread: just what is the appeal?
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Old 05-24-2016   #169
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Pentax fares well too. Their very first SLRs and lenses from 1952 had M37 mount, changed to M42 in 1957 and Pentax K mount in 1975. All have the same register distance and even the earliest M37 lenses and all M42 lenses can be used on all subsequent Pentax cameras, even on the latest digital SLRs of today, with the aid of simple, small adapter rings. Similar to a LTM to Leica M adapter ring these rings can be left on the lens to effectively convert it, M37 to M42, M42 to K esp. the two rings stacked a M37 lens into a K lens.
see http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/5...s-k-mount.html
and https://mycameracabinet.wordpress.co...mount-adapter/
Agreed - Pentax maintained a degree of forward compatibility in a manner similar to Leica.
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Old 05-30-2016   #170
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The answer is simple to me. The F revolutionized the 35mm format camera. It changed the game drastically. They took the lead and held it for a long time. All the others played catch up.
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Old 05-30-2016   #171
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Don't forget, you can use all that old Nikon, (most) Minolta, Leica R, and a slew of other slr glass on your modern EOS camera's. That was one of the selling points for me with Canon, you use nearly everyone elses glass on it (except older canon lenses), while with Nikon your choices are more limited.
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Old 05-30-2016   #172
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I loved my AE1. That was a cool camera. I bought it new in 1978 and it never missed a beat. I then had an AE1 program that let me down multiple times underexposing and I switched to Nikon in 1995.
Cool Canon for me are, both F1's, EF, A1, Ftb, Eos1 series. All great cameras but I'd lost faith and that was it for me.
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Old 05-30-2016   #173
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Don't forget, you can use all that old Nikon, (most) Minolta, Leica R, and a slew of other slr glass on your modern EOS camera's. That was one of the selling points for me with Canon, you use nearly everyone elses glass on it (except older canon lenses), while with Nikon your choices are more limited.

Yes ... I use Pentax K and Zeiss C/Y on mine.
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Old 05-30-2016   #174
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Watching the Canon and Nikon camera lineups post WWII, my own feeling is that

Starting with the first Canon EOS, Canon's commitment was and is to selling the maximum amount of widgets for the maximum amount of profit.
That the widgets in the camera division are cameras is an inconsequential detail.

Nikon's commitment is arguably to photography and to Nikon Photographers. The best example of that is Nikon's reissue of the classic Nikon SP and S3 cameras.
Canon would never have done something like that - there is no profit in it.

Stephen
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Old 05-30-2016   #175
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.......Nikon's commitment is arguably to photography and to Nikon Photographers. The best example of that is Nikon's reissue of the classic Nikon SP and S3 cameras. Canon would never have done something like that - there is no profit in it.

Stephen
I agree with this.

Using automobiles as an example, there are “car guys,” or people who really love cars; and the rest of the population who view their vehicle as nothing more than an appliance. Nikon, as a company, seems to be run by a bunch of “camera guys,” or guys who truly love photography. Canon seems like it’s run by a bunch of bean-counters.

Though I do like Canon FD gear. The FD lens line, F-1, FTb, EF, etc., are all top-notch cameras. The A-series, T-series and EOS models, less so.

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Old 05-30-2016   #176
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Watching the Canon and Nikon camera lineups post WWII, my own feeling is that

Starting with the first Canon EOS, Canon's commitment was and is to selling the maximum amount of widgets for the maximum amount of profit.
That the widgets in the camera division are cameras is an inconsequential detail.

Nikon's commitment is arguably to photography and to Nikon Photographers. The best example of that is Nikon's reissue of the classic Nikon SP and S3 cameras.
Canon would never have done something like that - there is no profit in it.

Stephen
I maybe wrong but the other thing about canon is they make lots of other thing like printers photocopiers etc. Are Canon a bigger company?
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Old 05-30-2016   #177
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I agree with this.

Using automobiles as an example, there are “car guys,” or people who really love cars; and the rest of the population who view their vehicle as nothing more than an appliance. Nikon, as a company, seems to be run by a bunch of “camera guys,” or guys who truly love photography. Canon seems like it’s run by a bunch of bean-counters.

Though I do like Canon FD gear. The FD lens line, F-1, FTb, EF, etc., are all top-notch cameras. The A-series, T-series and EOS models, less so.

Jim B.
Thats just falling into Nikons marketing trap, pure photography, the pro photographers camera etc.
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Old 05-30-2016   #178
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I maybe wrong but the other thing about canon is they make lots of other thing like printers photocopiers etc. Are Canon a bigger company?
Wikipedia says Canon has almost 200.000 employees, Nikon has 25.000 and it's true that Canon has the much bigger product offering.
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Old 05-30-2016   #179
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.....Are Canon a bigger company?
Canon is a much, much bigger company. They do a lot more than make cameras. Look at their website for more info.

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Old 05-30-2016   #180
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Thats just falling into Nikons marketing trap, pure photography, the pro photographers camera etc.
I bought into the Canon FD system way back in 1971. I still have, and use, an F-1 I bought in 1977.

Today, I primarily use Leica's (both film and digital) though I have quite an assortment of old 35mm film gear, all which sees use.

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Old 05-30-2016   #181
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Don't forget, you can use all that old Nikon, (most) Minolta, Leica R, and a slew of other slr glass on your modern EOS camera's. That was one of the selling points for me with Canon, you use nearly everyone elses glass on it (except older canon lenses), while with Nikon your choices are more limited.
But only in stop-down mode....
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Old 05-30-2016   #182
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Canon is the Toyota of cameras. Reliable, performs well, but uninteresting.
I think that is a bit unfair! I have several Canon lenses that are fairly special either in function or rendering (namely a 17mm tilt-shift, 50mm f1.2 and 135mm f2). Canon's FF system ergonomics are also pretty good, as much like Leica they are the result of gradual evolution over many years.

My only real complaint with Canon is the size and weight of the system, which is why I also shoot Leica (film) and u4/3 (travel and macro).
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Old 05-30-2016   #183
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Not cool....?

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Old 05-30-2016   #184
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Ahh, the good old FD breech mount lenses!

Part of "coolness" is nostalgia, isn't it?
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Old 05-30-2016   #185
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The answer is simple to me. The F revolutionized the 35mm format camera. It changed the game drastically. They took the lead and held it for a long time. All the others played catch up.
Minolta introduced the AF SLR, Canon introduced USM and IS lenses. In the AF era, Nikon was playing catch up...

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Nikon's commitment is arguably to photography and to Nikon Photographers. The best example of that is Nikon's reissue of the classic Nikon SP and S3 cameras.
Canon would never have done something like that - there is no profit in it
Aren't those cameras just marketing like the Df is?

I always felt Nikons are over hyped and Canons are the workhorses of the photography world. Just IMHO.
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Old 05-30-2016   #186
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Don't forget, you can use ... (most) Minolta
No, Minolta MC / MD doesnt fit.

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you use nearly everyone elses glass on it
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography...focus_EOS.html
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Old 05-30-2016   #187
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Not cool....?

VERY COOL!!!

Those are in really nice condition too. I love the old FD line, was crushed when Canon discontinued it.

And the black finish on the Canon SLR's, prior to the NEW F-1, were really beautiful. Had a gorgeous F-1n for years, which I stupidly sold, that was so beautiful to look at and hold.
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Old 05-30-2016   #188
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Coolest, in the history of film slr
銀鹽 一眼レフの最高!

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Old 05-30-2016   #189
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Here is the deal: it depends on who you talk to. I was around a lot of people who were very good photographers in the late 1960s and 70s who shot Canon. Later hundreds of people around me were buying Canon AE-1s, and happy with them. My recollection is why I've always liked Canons. I don't chase the "I must use the most popular, expensive, and recognizable brand." Not with cars, dog breeds, guns, or cameras. I use what works for ME, and that's cool....to ME.

Don't worry about trying to copy or analyze what all the others say is the best. Find out yourself, and outdo them with what they say is no good.
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Old 05-30-2016   #190
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By the way, the only Nikon I ever had is a Nikkormat. Definitely not cool to try to use, and full of ergonomic flaws.
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Old 05-31-2016   #191
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The Canon EX mount is an M39 LTM mount. What's exceedingly odd about that? Maybe where it's used is odd, but the mount definitely isn't.
It's odd because the rear lens elements stayed on the camera, and only the front lens group was interchangeable.
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Old 05-31-2016   #192
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Nikon was the top professional SLR until electronics took over the manufacturing process. When autofocus became standard, Canon's EOS system took a huge jump in popularity because their AF was better at the time. They were the cool cameras of the late 1990's. Since the, cameras have become like consumer electronics with little to distinguish one brand from another. This week one brand is on top but next week the technology will improve and another brand will take the lead and be Mr. Cool. At this point, who cares? Everyone makes good cameras. The cool factor doesn't mean squat for taking pictures.
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Old 05-31-2016   #193
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Well, out of curiosity I mounted the front 50mm element from the Canon EX on a Canon VIt body and a Canon 50mm f2.8 lens on the EX body. Results: I couldn't get anything in focus with the EX lens on the VIt body, but with the 50/2.8 lens on the EX body an object an inch or so in front of the lens would be in focus.
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Old 05-31-2016   #194
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Really?



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Old 05-31-2016   #195
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Rokkors 'can' be used on EOS with the use of an optical adapter, e.g. the Fotodiox will multiply focal lengths of the lens by x1.4, or after modifying either lens or camera. MD/MC lenses can't be directly mounted nor be used on EOS by just a simple, glassless adapter. right?!
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Old 05-31-2016   #196
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You have to pull the old mount and remount it with modified Eos mount. YEs, you'll get infinity. So it's not easy, but you can do it.

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Rokkors 'can' be used on EOS with the use of an optical adapter, e.g. the Fotodiox will multiply focal lengths of the lens by x1.4, or after modifying either lens or camera. MD/MC lenses can't be directly mounted nor be used on EOS by just a simple, glassless adapter. right?!
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Old 06-01-2016   #197
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Really the only cameras that I think of as being "cool" are Leica or anything more than 40-years-old.

I shoot Leica and Canon today and enjoy them both for very different reasons. For casual travel and street photography and even events and portraiture, my M-E and M Monochrom with 35, 50 and 90mm Leica lenses are all I could ever want. For longer trips where I might want real wide-angle, macro or to shoot in horrible conditions I wouldn't want to risk my expensive Leica equipment in I'm very happy with my Canon 6D.

For events I generally shoot with three lenses, those being a 35mm, a 50mm and an 85-100mm. Both Leica and Canon do that well, with the telephoto being far easier on the Canon with AF, and the wide angle far nicer on the Leica with the RF. The 50s work about equally well on both systems.

My Canon 6D with the 24-105/4 L is not even remotely cool or sexy, but I was in Vienna with it a few years in pouring rain, I just kept shooting without any thought or care for my equipment. I would have been far more protective of a Leica M9 generation camera or even an M240 with the non-sealed 35mm f/1.4 FLE.

I'm actually saving my pennies for the new Canon 35/1.4 L II, which (finally) adds weather sealing to the fast 35. The new optics are supposed to be better, but the old one was good enough. Now weather-sealing, combined with the well-tested weather-sealing on the 6D makes this my ideal travel kit, with the (also weather-sealed) 100/2.8 L Macro in a belt case, I've got most of the world covered. How cool is that?
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Old 06-01-2016   #198
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I`m actually saving my pennies for the new Canon 35/1.4 L II, which (finally) adds weather sealing to the fast 35. The new optics are supposed to be better, but the old one was good enough.
Sounds very interesting.
I just have one lens the ubiquitous 70 -200 /2.8 IS L.

Very uncool but for what I use it for , bloody marvelous.
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Old 06-01-2016   #199
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As a neophyte photography student in the 80's, I shot in high school with a silver Pentax K-1000...lots of the students did. They were very pedestrian...we could check them out, shoot our project, and check them back in. Our advisor, the photography teacher, had a black Nikon FE2 on a shelf over his desk...nobody was allowed to touch it. As you approached his desk, I could swear I heard angels weeping and trumpets blaring from that camera!! That made quite an impression on an impressionable teenager.

I think rarity makes something cool. I also feel that product placement makes things cool. Nikons were fewer in number, and the ones I saw were always black. Very cool. Saw them in movies...very cool. "Grab my Nikon" seemed like something a pro would say...not "grab my Canon."

So, in the film days, Nikon was the "it" SLR. Things change. I think in the digital world, I feel like Canon is associated with professional shooters. I see those white Canon banners at tennis matches, on the sidelines at football games and at the Olympic games. Open up National Geographic...my go-to inspirational magazine for travel photojournalism...and there's usually a Canon ad near the front. Perception is reality. I've owned both, and in fact owned film and digital Leicas, and medium format gear. When the rubber meets the road and I HAVE to get my picture, I reach for the Canon gear, an EOS 1DX now.

I'm pretty sure the guys on the ground during the apocalypse will be uplinking images shot with Canon digital gear. So I think Nikon was cool for film, but Canon is cool for digital.
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Old 06-01-2016   #200
zhang xk
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My Canon A-1 is very cool with this unusual lens.

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