Epson Advanced BW and non-Epson papers
Old 01-18-2015   #1
froyd
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Epson Advanced BW and non-Epson papers

Dummy question....

I'm printing a BW image on Ilford Gallerie Premium Lustre using Ilford's ICC profile for this paper and disabling color management in the Epson driver.

However, I wanted to know if I could print BW on the Ilford paper using my preferred method of going though the Epson ABW driver. For some reason -perhaps by design- I don't see the Ilford paper (or any other paper other than Epson's) in the Media Type drop down menu.

Help!
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Old 01-18-2015   #2
Jager
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Epson's ABW mode is, like other RIPs, its own black box and does not use conventional ICC profiles. But, sure, you can print with non-Epson papers through it. Most of us who do a lot of black-and-white printing do exactly that. In the ABW paper-type dropdown, just select one that is similar to what you're using.

I'm not familiar with Ilford's Gallerie Premium Lustre, but assuming it is a photo-black-ink paper with a satin/lustre-type finish, I'd think the Ultra Premium Photo Paper Luster selection would work just fine.
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Old 01-18-2015   #3
KEH
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The Ilford paper documentation should give you a recommended Epson paper type to use with the printer driver - if you set that correctly then ABW works OK.

I say 'OK' because there is an issue of the ink load assumed by the driver - the recommended Epson paper type may or may not be a good match. The only really sure way to get a good BW print with ABW is to use Epson paper - at least that has been my experience.

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Old 01-18-2015   #4
froyd
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Thanks, I'll give it a go.
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Old 01-26-2015   #5
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I used Innova IFA69 (a very similar paper) in my review of the SC-P600, with the ABW printing.

I created linearising B&W curves for all the papers I tested (Epson and non Epson)

The sc-p600 review has plenty more details of my ABW printing technique (I use similar with our big Canon iPF830 for my B&W work)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/r...n_sc-p600.html
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Old 01-26-2015   #6
barnwulf
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To print on Ilford paper just go the Ilford website and download the paper profile from their website. You pick the printer mfg and the specific printer that you have and then click on the Ilford paper type that you are using. You can download the printer profile and save it in with the other PS files. It will attach itself to Photo Shop and it will then show up in the paper profile drop down menu. You may need to close PS and reopen it before it shows up on the paper profile list. - jim
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Old 01-26-2015   #7
keithcooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnwulf View Post
To print on Ilford paper just go the Ilford website and download the paper profile from their website. You pick the printer mfg and the specific printer that you have and then click on the Ilford paper type that you are using. You can download the printer profile and save it in with the other PS files. It will attach itself to Photo Shop and it will then show up in the paper profile drop down menu. You may need to close PS and reopen it before it shows up on the paper profile list. - jim
I'd suggest that it is a far better general policy to put ICC profiles into the appropriate profile folder for your operating system, where they will be available for any application/driver on your system.

On a Mac, for example, this could be ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles

Such profiles that you might download are, by the way, of no relevance to printing using the ABW mode.

It is possible to create 'Correction profiles) using the QTR package for linearising B&W print modes, the curves are contained in an ICC profile format. See the link in my earlier post for more details.
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Old 01-26-2015   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithcooper View Post
I'd suggest that it is a far better general policy to put ICC profiles into the appropriate profile folder for your operating system, where they will be available for any application/driver on your system.

On a Mac, for example, this could be ~/Library/ColorSync/Profiles

Such profiles that you might download are, by the way, of no relevance to printing using the ABW mode.

It is possible to create 'Correction profiles) using the QTR package for linearising B&W print modes, the curves are contained in an ICC profile format. See the link in my earlier post for more details.
Thanks Keith and Jim, the ICC work flow is not an issue for me. My confusion was about ABW and non-Epson papers. ... For what it's worth, I followed Jager and KEH's suggestions, and had good results, but the final print was made with the Ilford profiles and looked the best, albeit a bit cooler in tone than I'd like.


BTW, Keith, great write-up on the new Epson printer and using ABW.
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Old 01-26-2015   #9
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I've used Ilford Gold Fibre Silk and Ilford Gallerie Smooth Gloss with Epson's Advanced BW Mode with success. Here's the settings to use:

1) In Photoshop, set color management to "Printer Manages Colors."

2) In the Epson driver, set media type to "Epson Premium Semigloss Paper."

3) Set the driver to use the ABW mode. Go into the Advanced Settings within the ABW mode. Set the brightness setting to "Lighter." My experience is the Ilford papers print too dark in the ABW Mode if you use the default brightness setting.

Using these settings gives results with my Epson r2400 that are very neutral and have excellent tonality.
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Old 01-26-2015   #10
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Thanks for the tip on the "Lighter" setting. I think that might be the key... I'll report back if I think it produces better results than the Ilford stock profile.
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Old 01-26-2015   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by froyd View Post
Thanks for the tip on the "Lighter" setting. I think that might be the key... I'll report back if I think it produces better results than the Ilford stock profile.
It should give results with a more consistent color balance. The Ilford profile is for color printing, and the print color is not the same through the whole tonal range from light to dark. The Epson ABW mode is.
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Old 01-26-2015   #12
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I've bookmarked this thread. Gold.
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Old 01-26-2015   #13
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Just a quick note that the ABW mode non default settings are usually increasingly non-linear. If they give better results, then something is amiss elsewhere.

ABW also tends to crunch deep shadows, hence my use of a QTR ICC linearising profile when using ABW (the profile is not used the same way as with colour profiles)

I have a specific test image for B&W that needs to be printed correctly before I'll print my own images

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a...t-image-2.html
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Old 01-26-2015   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithcooper View Post
Just a quick note that the ABW mode non default settings are usually increasingly non-linear. If they give better results, then something is amiss elsewhere.

ABW also tends to crunch deep shadows, hence my use of a QTR ICC linearising profile when using ABW (the profile is not used the same way as with colour profiles)

I have a specific test image for B&W that needs to be printed correctly before I'll print my own images

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/a...t-image-2.html

How do you use the QTR profile with Epson's driver?
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Old 01-27-2015   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto View Post
How do you use the QTR profile with Epson's driver?
See the SC-P600 review I've just finished, in the Colour management section.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/r...n_sc-p600.html

There are quite a few related articles connected with B&W printing.

I also use the profiles with (some papers) on our large Canon iPF8300 printer with the Canon equivalent of ABW. There are more examples in many of the printer reviews too.

The main advantage of using such 'correcting' profiles is that you can edit on a well profiled monitor and be much more confident that your print won't crunch deep shadows or mid tones too light.
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Old 01-27-2015   #16
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Chris- thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I tried different settings and for my specific image and paper (Ilford Gallerie Premium Lustre) the best combo was:

- Paper type: Epson Ultra Premium Paper Luster
- Tone: Dark

The print with these ABW settings and the print where I used the Ilford ICC through LR5 were very similar, but the ABW one gets the nod for a more neutral tone and slightly better shadow detail while retaining deep blacks.

In my case, Lighter was too light and Normal was good. Dark was best and Darker too dark.

Not sure why I thought ABW looked worse than the Ilford profile when I first compared them, but I'm guessing it might be because the tone was not set to Normal or Dark.
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