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CSC : Digital Compact System Cameras - This new category of digital Compact System Cameras with interchangeable lenses was mislabeled for a time as "Mirrorless Cameras" by those forgetting about "Mirrorless" Rangefinder cameras.  Such confusion is easily understandable, since interchangeable rangefinder cameras were only recently introduced in 1932.  hmm.    CSC or Compact System Camera is probably the best category description to date, although I am fond of the old RFF desigation of  CEVIL  indicating Compact Electronic Viewfidner Interchangeable Lens.   This forum is here at RFF because via adapters these cameras offer an inexpensive way to use rangefinder lenses on digital cameras -- in addition of just about every 35mm SLR lens you can think of.  All  offer the photo enthusiast an incredible array of adopted lenses which was not possible before these new digital formats.   This group continues to grow in popularity and new camera models! 

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Epilepsy and EVFs
Old 10-17-2014   #1
doolittle
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Epilepsy and EVFs

Hi there,

Is there any need to be cautious for a person with epilepsy to use a camera with an EVF? My father has epilepsy which is well controlled with medication. He is looking to get back to taking his photography more seriously again (currently using a digital point and shot with no viewfinder).

In his heyday he shot with a Contaflex and later a Canon AE1, but he is looking for something more compact, but still capable now with a viewfinder.

One of the options would be a mirrorless with evf, just want to make sure it will not increase his chances of having a seizure!
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Old 10-17-2014   #2
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Not all epilepsies are flashlights-dependent.

Even if so - I highly doubt the frequency and intensity of the EVF refreshing would be enough.

Old cathodic TV screens were a risk factor, yes. Just compare the data and don't be afraid.

Also - the dimmer the light, the safer (so, no need to set the EVF to its brightest extent).

Fluorescent tubes in shops and subway stations will be more dangerous for him (in case he suffers from this peculiar form of epilepsy) than his mirrorless camera.
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Old 10-17-2014   #3
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There is no sane reason why. There is a rare (about 3%) form of epilepsy (juvenile myoclonic epilepsy) among children and young adults which is optically triggered. But trigger frequencies are in the 2-30Hz range and require high contrast - even cinema projections and old-school TV (which had a far more pronounced stroboscopic effect) were usually safe unless combined with particularly stroboscopic content. A LCD or OLED monitor showing a live scenery will be no more likely as a trigger than that scenery itself. What's more, your father is rather unlikely to be in the affected age group below twenty...
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Old 10-17-2014   #4
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I would guess that if he has no problem looking at the LCD, he'll have no problem looking at the EVF. But please take that entirely as conjecture.

Perhaps contact his doctor and ask...

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Old 10-17-2014   #5
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Several years ago, my youngest daughter dated a guy who was not below twenty. He was playing a video game at an Army PX and had a seizure. He said he had never had one before.

My oldest daughter, was in her mid-twenties before she had her first problem with epilepsy. It is pretty well controlled by medication. But I have to be careful when she is home, about using my flash for photographs. Especiallhy my Sunpak 622, even a couple of rooms away.

I'm not sure what that would have to do with your father, but just to point out that there doesn't seem to by any guarenty as to what may initiate an event. I would doubt what you describe would, but you may never know until he tries.
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Old 10-17-2014   #6
doolittle
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Thanks guys, some great input. He is fine with lcd camera monitor, lcd tv and PC monitor and his epilepsy isn't optically triggered, so guess nothing to be concerned about, no harm running it by doc anyway. I am not sure how he will take to the evf experience anyway. Wanted to double check before presenting it as an option.

@oftheherd: definitely something to bear in mind.
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Old 10-17-2014   #7
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It is fairly possible that the famous French writer Albert Camus died in 1960 because the man driving the car he was sitting in had a seizure caused by the setting sun located behind a regular alignment of trees alongside the road.
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Old 10-17-2014   #8
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Definitely consult with the doctor no matter whatever advise is given here
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Old 10-17-2014   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judsonzhao View Post
Definitely consult with the doctor no matter whatever advise is given here
The doctor will prohibit using an EVF, watching TV, listening to pop music, riding a bicycle, driving a car, piloting a plane, skiing, swimming, making love.
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Old 10-17-2014   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
The doctor will prohibit using an EVF, watching TV, listening to pop music, riding a bicycle, driving a car, piloting a plane, skiing, swimming, making love.
Sad you got a sick doctor : )
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Old 10-17-2014   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doolittle View Post
Thanks guys, some great input. He is fine with lcd camera monitor, lcd tv and PC monitor and his epilepsy isn't optically triggered, so guess nothing to be concerned about, no harm running it by doc anyway. I am not sure how he will take to the evf experience anyway. Wanted to double check before presenting it as an option.

@oftheherd: definitely something to bear in mind.
Be very careful and check with your Dr.
The EVFs of Fuji cameras - the XT1 and XE2 that I have tried - make me nauseous almost immediately. I do not suffer from epilepsy but I get the worst motion sickness from trying to use them, which is a real shame as I like the XT1. It must have something to do with the refresh rate of their EVFs as I do not suffer this way when using the EVFs in Sonys and Olympus cameras.

So... proceed with caution.
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Old 10-17-2014   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Be very careful and check with your Dr.
The EVFs of Fuji cameras - the XT1 and XE2 that I have tried - make me nauseous almost immediately. I do not suffer from epilepsy but I get the worst motion sickness from trying to use them, which is a real shame as I like the XT1. It must have something to do with the refresh rate of their EVFs as I do not suffer this way when using the EVFs in Sonys and Olympus cameras.
Nope, that is the delay - a delay between vestibular system and eye is known to cause vertigo. A entirely separate issue, phototriggered seizures are not related to the vestibular system.
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Old 10-17-2014   #13
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Nope, that is the delay - a delay between vestibular system and eye is known to cause vertigo. A entirely separate issue, phototriggered seizures are not related to the vestibular system.
Thanks for the explanation! Interesting that it only happens to me with the Fujis.
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Old 10-17-2014   #14
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Originally Posted by Huss View Post
Thanks for the explanation! Interesting that it only happens to me with the Fujis.
It will be timing sensitive - and it may depend on finder resolution and the lack of external references in the field of vision. Motion sickness happens when your visual equilibrium cues do not agree with the information from the vestibular system - if the finder has a visible grid, pixel structure or margin, your brain will notice these to be in agreement with the vestibular system, and will disregard the time lapse in the actual finder video.
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Old 10-17-2014   #15
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I had never thought about any of this. For me part of the special thrill of SLRs and TLRs is the revisitation of what I and my younger brother called 'giddy giddy time' as children when we would gyrate to the point of collapse. I use RFs.
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Old 10-17-2014   #16
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I'm lucky in that despite being epileptic, this has never been an issue.

I wonder now about the endless afternoons spent in front of the TV set when I was a kid...
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Old 10-17-2014   #17
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Fujifilm X series EVFs will strobe in the presence of strong fluorescent light.
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Old 10-17-2014   #18
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Something to consider... Yesterday I was using the Olympus EVF with my Leica M 240 and the refresh rate is slow enough that when I focused near a computer LCD monitor I got severe flicker. Black and white bands that were not pleasant to look at coming from the computer screen. I'm not sure if these would be at the right rate or contrast to cause a seizure, but I wouldn't point an EVF at an LCD.
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Old 10-17-2014   #19
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Thanks for this thread. I had a TBI and have migrianes which are triggered by strobing and such. Jittery EVF's make my head feel strange really fast. I look forward to seeing all the input here.
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Old 10-17-2014   #20
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If there are concerns about the EVF why not consider the Fuji X-Pro, the Fuji X100 series or the Fuji X20, all of which have an OVF.
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Old 10-17-2014   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejasican View Post
Thanks for this thread. I had a TBI and have migrianes which are triggered by strobing and such. Jittery EVF's make my head feel strange really fast. I look forward to seeing all the input here.
At least my optically triggered migraine can be triggered by motion sickness as well as by strobes or excessive brightness - you may have to avoid a wider range of phenomena than with epilepsy.

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Old 10-17-2014   #22
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Originally Posted by sevo View Post
At least my optically triggered migraine can be triggered by motion sickness as well as by strobes or excessive brightness - you may have to avoid a wider range of phenomena than with epilepsy.

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Aha. Migraine you have. I was thinking you must be a neuroscientist but I now I think you might be a neurologist after all. The ones with migraine know more.
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Old 10-17-2014   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greyelm View Post
If there are concerns about the EVF why not consider the Fuji X-Pro, the Fuji X100 series or the Fuji X20, all of which have an OVF.
I tried the X100S, and it only worked for me if I do not activate the electronics in the optical VF.
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