New V500, Now What?
Old 11-16-2010   #1
stewmander
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New V500, Now What?

I just got a new Epson V500 and have tested it out with some 35mm film I shot using an XA, Rollei 35S, and Nikon FE on a couple different films. Below are some scans of images straight from the V500, and then edited in PS (auto tone/color/contrast, curves, levels, brightness/contrast). USM, ICE, and grain reduction was turned on, 48-bit, 4800 dpi.

I have trouble getting pure black, and see lots of "fuzz". Will ANR glass help with the "fuzz" I am seeing (fuzz is most noticable in the sky and dark shadow areas it seems). Also, are my basic PS tweaks the correct ones? I tend to mess around until the image looks better, but I dont know im going about it the right way, or if there is something I am missing. Let me know what you guys think! The second image is the one edited in PS.



Watermelon 1 by astewart, on Flickr V500, Rollei 35S, Konica Centuria 400


Watermelon 2 by astewart, on Flickr V500 + PS, Rollei 35S, Konica Centuria 400

Last edited by stewmander : 11-16-2010 at 21:28.
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Old 11-16-2010   #2
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Trees 1 by astewart, on Flickr V500, Nikon FE + 50mm f/1.4 AIS, Kodak Ektar 100


Trees 2 by astewart, on Flickr V500 + PS, Nikon FE + 50mm f/1.4 AIS, Kodak Ektar 100

Last edited by stewmander : 11-16-2010 at 21:30.
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What now????
Old 11-18-2010   #3
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What now????

Set aside many, many, many, many hours and get to it.

I decided to scan/convert a few hundred transparencies and bought a V500. I make no assertions to quality or lack of on the V500.

Frankly, I found scanning after the first 100 or so, to be so tedious, time consuming and a task with virtually no redeeming or rewarding value. I quit and sold the scanner.

Regarding your "fuzz", it seems to me that using ICE can cause such problems....

But what do I know... I gave up.
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Old 11-18-2010   #4
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What software are you using? I use Vuescan with my V700, I always use ICE where I can, and the blacks always look pretty good.

Try the 30 day trial of Vuescan if you've not already, I would not buy a scanner if it was not compatible with it, it's that good.

ANR glass is unlikely to help the noise/fuzz, that will just get rid of newton rings, which I don't see on your shots anyway. It will also hold the film flat, but I don't think that is your problem either. I would say it's some sort of auto-adjustment in the software trying to brighten that blacks, where in fact they should simply be left alone as black. Vuescan tends not to mess around too much with the colours, and you can take multiple passes at different brightnesses.

Never used a V500, but I'd say the results should be a lot better than that.
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Old 11-18-2010   #5
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Thanks for the replys. I used the Epson software to scan these...I do have the vuescan software, and did try it but found it a bit more work than the Epson software. I also found a process of scaning using vuescan then using a colorperfect add on for PS somewhere on these threads.

I will give vuescan another try, could you quickly tell me your vuescan settings/work flow? I do have time to fiddle around with the scans, but, my main problem is fiddling around and getting nowhere...I have no problem spending a few hours a night to get good quality images...its spending hours and hours and not getting any improvement that I want to avoid. Thanks again for the help!
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Old 11-18-2010   #6
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Are you adjusting brightness levels inside the epson software or in some other post processing application? I try to let the epson software do as little as possible except scan the image and leave sharpening and contrast adjustment to either photoshop or lightroom.
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Old 11-18-2010   #7
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I do the brightness levels with PS, I let epson do USM and ICE...
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Old 11-18-2010   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
Set aside many, many, many, many hours and get to it.

I decided to scan/convert a few hundred transparencies and bought a V500. I make no assertions to quality or lack of on the V500.

Frankly, I found scanning after the first 100 or so, to be so tedious, time consuming and a task with virtually no redeeming or rewarding value. I quit and sold the scanner.

Regarding your "fuzz", it seems to me that using ICE can cause such problems....

But what do I know... I gave up.
I get the fuzz with ICE on the V500 also. But what I can't get over is that when I turn off all the Color Correction and ICE and Unsharp Mask the Slides are dark in the preview and also in the file that is produced. I can deal with the 'fuzz' but not he dark scans of slides.
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Old 11-18-2010   #9
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1. Scan at 1,600 SPI. If you find something WONDERFUL and you want a print, come back and scan at 2,400 MAXIMUM. These machines never ever have real optical resolution higher than 2,400. In point of fact, they may be streteched at 1,600-2,000 spi.
2. Turn off ICE. I find that color hides a lot of defects.
3. USM set to Low, maybe medium. You will know when you go too high. Capture and out put sharpening in PS or LR.
4. Follow Ken's guide to scanning.
http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/index.html

I must be lucky. I'm scanning a bunch of Kodachrome now. I almost always have to set exposure at -0.5 stop.

Quote:
Getting it Right in the Scanning Phase

The more digital "corrections" we make to our images, the more artificial they tend to look. Banding and gaps appear whenever we make a change. You can start out with a continuous-tone image but may you end up with something rather... different.

To make a digital image that looks as analog as possible - as smooth as possible - you should work in a 16-bit color-space, and if scanning, try to get things right, while scanning. Make as few subsequent corrections as possible.

Here is a brief tutorial on Scanning Tips with the Epson 4990, but it applies to any scanner you use. The Green Channel is sharpest with consumer-grade CCD scanners. Read Scanning the Green Channel for Optimum Resolution to learn more.

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Old 11-19-2010   #10
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I use a V500 but I`ve only seen results like that if I try and adjust brightness levels too much.
The only Epson controls that I use is USM set at med and sometimes I make adjustments to the contrast.
Never used Ice.
I find a lot of these adjustment tools very heavy handed in their application.
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Old 11-19-2010   #11
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Thanks again for the help guys. I tried scanning with ICE and USM off in the Epson software, then I adjusted the histogram of the preview like ken suggests, and get less "fuzz". If i dont adjust the histogram in the Epson software I get the same fuzz. There was less fuzz using vuescan, but the imag also came out darker...I am not 100% familar with vuescan tho. I will continue working on it, thanks for all the help guys!
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Old 11-19-2010   #12
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I use Vuescan with pretty much out of the box settings, I put ICE on "medium", and sometimes "correct faded colours", but that's it. I try to use the film profile which I'm using, but if it's not available, just pick a similar one, i.e. if you're shooting Ektachrome, some other Kodak slide profile will likely be fine.

For strong colours, I use the multiple-pass function, which I find fixes blocked up shadows.

I use it on my Canon FS4000 and V700, Vuescan makes both of these scanner easy to work with, I find.

Maybe also try "Neat Image", on the PC, it's available as a stand alone app, on the Mac, only as a plugin, but it remove noise *extremely* well, I use it when my scans look a little ropey sometimes.
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Old 11-20-2010   #13
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I'm scanning with an ancient Epson 1680 and Epson software for the 1680.
My workflow:
1. Set window inside black margin.
2. Hit Auto Exposure button.
3. Open adjustment window. Set outputs to 0 & 256 (full left & full right). Set black point-pointer at left end of histogram. Set white point-pointer at right end of histogram. Move middle slider to suit image, my mood, the alignment of the stars, etc. I wish there was a hard & fast rule for this. I don't touch any other adjustments, no matter what type of film I'm scanning.
3-A. Set window outside image area.
4. USM-I'm still experimenting. I used HIGH on a roll of Kodachrome 64 that worked well.
5. Scan as TIFF at 2,400 max. I will back off to 1,600 and see if I can tell any difference.
6. Open in Lightroom. Apply a pinch of Wayne's Mojo semi-preset. Spot as required.
7. Done.
ps: I scan 1:1 at whatever DPI works for the format I'm scanning.
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Old 11-20-2010   #14
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Have a look at this http://aop.thepublicbroadcast.com/ep...ing-negatives/

I found it very helpful, although I know my scans need improvement, I am a lot closer to where I want to be.
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Old 11-20-2010   #15
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j.scooter, that was good. I helps to see the process on a screen.
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Show me!
Old 11-20-2010   #16
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Cool Show me!

Various formats and emulsions. One Epson 1680 scanner.

Kodachrome 64


35mm Plus-X


Kodak 160VC-6x7


4x5 Arista/Fomapan 200


I'm the biggest klutz in the world. If I can scan, anybody can scan. The best part is how little work these files need in Lightroom. Not bad for a $175 3 format scanner.
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Old 11-20-2010   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charjohncarter View Post
j.scooter, that was good. I helps to see the process on a screen.
He promised to show his color workflow in a latter episode, unfortunately it hasn't happened yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by venchka View Post
Various formats and emulsions. One Epson 1680 scanner.

I'm the biggest klutz in the world. If I can scan, anybody can scan. The best part is how little work these files need in Lightroom. Not bad for a $175 3 format scanner.

Hey Venchka, that is how I want my scans to come out!!! Great work!
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Old 11-20-2010   #18
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Thanks. I beat my head against the monitor and keyboard for about a year. Then things began to fall into place. I'm not intimidated by color now. Not perfect. But passable.
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Old 11-22-2010   #19
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With some work you can get good scans from the V500 but it does not really resolve much above 2000ppi. Once in a while with the wind in the right direction in the afternoon of the third Sunday in March you may see an extra detail by scanning at 4800ppi or maybe it was caused by a hangover. I don't use the digital ICE or any of the other settings just the auto exposure which I then adjust the levels to remove the clipped highlights becasue they can't be removed after the scan.

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Old 11-22-2010   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venchka View Post
Thanks. I beat my head against the monitor and keyboard for about a year. Then things began to fall into place. I'm not intimidated by color now. Not perfect. But passable.
I have revisited your post and am impressed by the level of sharpness your scans have. Do you use the provided film holders or do you have aftermarket holders or scan from the bed?

Thanks
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Old 11-22-2010   #21
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I use an epson V500 with silverfast SE (which works better for negatives for me than the Epson software). I only use it for medium format negatives (ilford xp2 mostly) and for my last roll of kodachrome. I still need to optimize my workflow, but I am not unhappy with the quality, considering what the v500 costs.



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Old 11-23-2010   #22
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I scanned a 6x6 with the V500 using the stock trays, then I cropped a section. The camera was a Agfa Isolette handheld with a 4.5 Apotar lens.



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Old 11-24-2010   #23
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by j.scooter View Post
I have revisited your post and am impressed by the level of sharpness your scans have. Do you use the provided film holders or do you have aftermarket holders or scan from the bed?

Thanks
Thank you again. I use the factory original film holders in all formats. I am saving up for a Betterscanning holder for 120 at least. Maybe the mounting station for 4x5 if the 120 holder makes a noticeable improvement.
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Old 11-27-2010   #24
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Sorry if its thread-jacking, but how do you guys get big files out of the scanner? The size of the scans are good enough, pixel dimension-wise, but they are...small when you look at the file size, around 800-900kb. And you can't zoom too much before the pictures start looking pixel-y. Any help? I'm using 800dpi in Vuescan. Thanks.
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Old 11-27-2010   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PollitowuzHere View Post
Sorry if its thread-jacking, but how do you guys get big files out of the scanner? The size of the scans are good enough, pixel dimension-wise, but they are...small when you look at the file size, around 800-900kb. And you can't zoom too much before the pictures start looking pixel-y. Any help? I'm using 800dpi in Vuescan. Thanks.

crank up the DPI. If you scan a 35mm negative at 300 DPI, you create a file that only has 300 pixels on its shortest dimension. If you boost it to 1600, then you have 1600 DPI on the shortest dimension.
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Old 11-28-2010   #26
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What's the best DPI setting for the V500? I know the maximum DPI setting isn't noticeable, it only serves to pad the file size.
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Old 11-28-2010   #27
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Venchka, offered this basic tutorial for scanning. I think it is very good. He recommends 800 for 4x5, 1200 for 120, and 2400 for 35mm.

http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/scanning.html
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Old 11-28-2010   #28
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Scanning B&W for the green channel only seems worth the effort. I'll give it a try.
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Old 11-28-2010   #29
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Does anyone else have problems with the negative carriers/trays that come with the V500? If there is any curl at all to the negative these trays do not flatten the filmstrip enough. I get a lightening around the sprocket holes of the film while scanning-really ANNOYING. Any help would be most appreciated.

Are these what I need?: http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/insert35.html
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Old 11-28-2010   #30
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Can you explain the problem around the sprocket holes. I would love to be able to scan the edges of the film, but my holders only show a narrow strip of black around the image. I set the scan window (dotted frame) to the edge of the actual image. I don't have a V500.
The glass inserts are said to work well.
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Old 11-29-2010   #31
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Quote:
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Scanning B&W for the green channel only seems worth the effort. I'll give it a try.

Let us know, my extensive testing has now shown much.
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Old 11-29-2010   #32
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Cool

Quote:
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What's the best DPI setting for the V500? I know the maximum DPI setting isn't noticeable, it only serves to pad the file size.
Somewhere between 1,600 and 2,400 DPI is the limit of the optics. Anything larger is guesstimated software added dots that were not part of your original.
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Old 11-29-2010   #33
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Thanks Venchka, here is a sample :


[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5218983489/]11

I am just using the epson software, not vuescan. any help would be most appreciated. It doesnt happen every time but only when i notice quiteabit of curl in the negative.
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Old 11-29-2010   #34
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Using a variation of Venchka's method, some results with the Epson software. Film used is 35mm Portra 160NC for the first one and 35mm Kodak Gold 100 for the other one.


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Old 11-29-2010   #35
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I failed to mention that I use an anti-static brush and canned air. Those two items do a better job and are a lot faster than ICE. Keep up the good work.
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V500 print size
Old 12-25-2010   #36
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V500 print size

What is like the maximum print size one can get with the v500 scans from a 35mm neg.?

thanks
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Old 12-25-2010   #37
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It depends on what you will do with the print and what film you were scanning in the first place. I can comfortably make 8x10 inch prints that may go in a frame on top of the TV or on the sideboard. I have made tests for 12x18 inch and if viewed from more than 4 feet away the test looked fine. Not 12x18 prints that I would want to put my nose up to but hung on a wall view from 4 feet they would be fine...
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Old 12-25-2010   #38
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Here in this thread are some large samples from the V500 that I posted look for the posts by Stuart Moxham thats me.

http://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/00XjV3

You will find some large samples there from 35mm V500 scans download them and make some test prints..
I don't know of anyway to upload large images here..
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Whack em on the back of the head!!! Seriously!!
Old 12-25-2010   #39
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Whack em on the back of the head!!! Seriously!!

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It depends on what you will do with the print and what film you were scanning in the first place. I can comfortably make 8x10 inch prints that may go in a frame on top of the TV or on the sideboard. I have made tests for 12x18 inch and if viewed from more than 4 feet away the test looked fine. Not 12x18 prints that I would want to put my nose up to but hung on a wall view from 4 feet they would be fine...
If somone actually goes up to one of your prints over 12X18 inches in size and puts their nose up to them, I consider it perfectly legitimate to sneak up behind them, YELL "MORON!!!", and whack em on the back of the head. What idiots.
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Old 12-25-2010   #40
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Thank you all for saving me the money, I was pondering one of these but will go and hire the use of a drum scanner instead. At £20-30 per hour or with quite healthy discounts for half days I can get a lot of scans done for the cost of the V700. The V500 just does not quite look up to the quality I need.
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