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Old 03-18-2018   #41
airfrogusmc
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As far as sensor cleaning goes when a rocket blower won't do the trickk eyelead gel (orange for sony Leica) does it for me.

Huss the M 10 is far from behind. I use it in low light all the time (20,000 ISO is real usable) and it is as good if not better than much of what is out there and it's a true rangefinder. No video, easy to navigate menus and great manual controls. Exceeds my needs to make photograph.

I still love my original MM.
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Old 03-18-2018   #42
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As far as sensor cleaning goes when a rocket blower won't do the trickk eyelead gel (orange for sony Leica) does it for me.

Huss the M 10 is far from behind. I use it in low light all the time (20,000 ISO is real usable) and it is as good if not better than much of what is out there and it's a true rangefinder. No video, easy to navigate menus and great manual controls. Exceeds my needs to make photograph.

I still love my original MM.
I use those gel sticks too. Highly recommended. I have one for my Nikon DSLR, and the Sony/Leica one for my M240. Takes seconds to use and works.
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Old 03-18-2018   #43
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My M9 has the original sensor, at least the first version as it was advertised as having a sensor replaced for another reason before the corrosion issue was known. I've yet to see corrosion but dust was quite the problem until I just gave up and left my 28mm on it full time. I also put a rubber band around the lens at the base to try to mitigate any dust or moisture intrusion. So far so good. Maybe the M11 or M12 might have sensor cleaning, y'think?
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Old 03-19-2018   #44
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Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Thanks Cal for these info, do you have any suggestion about the LED Magnifier?

I see different types on the market where I live and not sure how to select one. Is a 6x magnifier (with LED lights) enough?

robert
Robert,

I only know the one I have from Visible Dust. The ring of LED's makes sensor inspection easy.

I have a Schneider Loupe for my light table to inspect negatives, and I suspect the Visible Dust is likely 6X or 8X. The lighting seem supplied seems ideal. I feel certain that my sensor is clean when I use the magnifier.

BTW my Leica SL in over two years of ownership has never had a wet cleaning. This camera is mirrorless and the sensor is exposed any time a lens is changed.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #45
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I just received a used Arctic Butterfly. I was going to send it back when I realized I got a model that doesn't have the lights. But I only paid about $36 for it, and I see that even the non-lighted ones are going for over $60, even used ones. I wonder if I should just keep it? Or is the lighted one that much better?

I use the Rocket blowers, which do have a check valve. I think I'm good there.
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Old 03-20-2018   #46
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I just received a used Arctic Butterfly. I was going to send it back when I realized I got a model that doesn't have the lights. But I only paid about $36 for it, and I see that even the non-lighted ones are going for over $60, even used ones. I wonder if I should just keep it? Or is the lighted one that much better?

I use the Rocket blowers, which do have a check valve. I think I'm good there.
Rob,

I have seldom required using my Arctic Butterfly. Mine has the light, I believe, but I'm not sure now. Really I seldom have used it.

My Fashion Blogger gal returned from a studio shoot, and somehow I ended up with a Rocket blower ball with check valve that somehow was packed with here clothes. So now I have two blower balls.

Of course using the blower ball extends to lens caps and lenses.

I'm glad I have the Arctic Butterfly for when I need it. You do what is good for you. Avoiding touching the sensor or wet cleaning really reduces any risk of damage. That is how I handle maintaining my sensor.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #47
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Sorry Cal, what is a check valve ?

thanks, robert

PS: I rarely change lens on the M10 so I assume dust should not be a big problem, but just in case I desire to be ready!
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Old 03-20-2018   #48
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Originally Posted by robert blu View Post
Sorry Cal, what is a check valve ?

thanks, robert

PS: I rarely change lens on the M10 so I assume dust should not be a big problem, but just in case I desire to be ready!
Robert,

A check valve only allows flow in one direction. Some blower balls don't have check valves so in use they can both direct a stream of air and also pull a vacuum from the same nozzle.

For our use, a check valve prevents the sucking action which could suck in debris into the blower ball and allow dirt to accumulate and collect that can later be expelled back into the camera. There is generally a separate "relief" valve that allows air to be replaced into the blower ball.

Know that I check my sensor monthly in a clean area. Dust seems to bond to the sensor over time and becomes more stubborn to remove. You might have to use an Arctic Butterfly that uses static to lift off the dust because the blower ball is not enough. If the dust truely bonded then a wet cleaning is required.

Really every three to 4 weeks I inspect and flush out my digital cameras. My hygene is so good that I almost always see a clean sensor, and if I see a spec it is removed with a blower before bonding takes place.

BTW my SL is weather sealed.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #49
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Robert,

A check valve only allows flow in one direction. Some blower balls don't have check valves so in use they can both direct a stream of air and also pull a vacuum from the same nozzle.

For our use, a check valve prevents the sucking action which could suck in debris into the blower ball and allow dirt to accumulate and collect that can later be expelled back into the camera. There is generally a separate "relief" valve that allows air to be replaced into the blower ball.

Know that I check my sensor monthly in a clean area. Dust seems to bond to the sensor over time and becomes more stubborn to remove. You might have to use an Arctic Butterfly that uses static to lift off the dust because the blower ball is not enough. If the dust truely bonded then a wet cleaning is required.

Really every three to 4 weeks I inspect and flush out my digital cameras. My hygene is so good that I almost always see a clean sensor, and if I see a spec it is removed with a blower before bonding takes place.

BTW my SL is weather sealed.

Cal
Thanks, I understand
robert
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Old 03-20-2018   #50
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Yes, I agree some people use it that way but my dictionary the last time I looked (and just checked) says "US; to cause ...a product to become obsolete by replacing it with something new". As I said "in my little world" (England) I figure I'm excluding these US versions of the word. And the word "cause" suggests it is forced on people, probably by the sales dept...

Regards, David
You are considering the verb form of the word "obsolete", David. See the attachment for the full dictionary entry. It's not a "US version of the word" ... using obsolete as a verb is simply a word usage that happens to be part of the US dialect of English.

You're also choosing to interpret the word "cause" as a verb only with a connotation of something being forced by (malicious) intent. Sorry, but "to cause something to happen" and "the cause of something" is much more general and neutral than that.

Things become obsolete whenever a new thing that serves the same function and does it as well or better comes along. "An M2 is obsolete" does not include meaning that an M2 is not functional or unusable. To use the US verb form of the word in the sense that you decide to ignore and with the connotation you overlay on the verb form of "cause", here's an example: "Leica obsoleted the M9 when they introduced the M typ 240 camera." That doesn't mean that all M9s were immediately worn out or put out of service, or that Leica intentionally wanted to cause you grief: It simply means that Leica introduced the M typ 240 with better features, more reliability, et cetera, having seen the good and bad points of the M9 product in service. The intent was to have the M typ 240 as their market offering as an advance on the M9's reliability, features, and capabilities.

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Old 03-20-2018   #51
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Godfrey,

Some really good points you made. Pretty much I used my Monochrom for 5 years of hard use. It was my main go to camera. The camera just got overhauled and has a new sensor.

Pretty easy to expect another 5 years of trouble free service, especially since the SL is my primary camera and I have many others. Not unreasonable to think the five years could stretch into a decade. After that it basically is a remarkable free camera.

I do think this could happen in my case. I can see how a MD has its charm.

Cal
I agree, I just don't buy any camera with the notion that it is going to last for decades without service of some sort.

On a similar basis, my 2003 Olympus E-1 is now a free camera. It's been obsolete since 2007, and service/parts inventory for it was discontinued by Olympus in 2014, but it's still working just fine and still makes beautiful photographs. It was a $2000+ camera when it was new; I bought it for $200 or so in 2008. It's made a couple ten thousand excellent photographs. I'll use it (occasionally) until it no longer works because it now has very limited resale value, and then it will become a shelf decoration.

G
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Old 03-20-2018   #52
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I agree, I just don't buy any camera with the notion that it is going to last for decades without service of some sort.

On a similar basis, my 2003 Olympus E-1 is now a free camera. It's been obsolete since 2007, and service/parts inventory for it was discontinued by Olympus in 2014, but it's still working just fine and still makes beautiful photographs. It was a $2000+ camera when it was new; I bought it for $200 or so in 2008. It's made a couple ten thousand excellent photographs. I'll use it (occasionally) until it no longer works because it now has very limited resale value, and then it will become a shelf decoration.

G
Godfrey,

It is interesting how a camera can become an extension of a person's identity. In my case a camera can be an extension of my body to the extent where it has become part of me.

I think the limitation might be my three batteries. I researched how long the batteries last in a hybrid car. Pretty much the batteries can last the life of the vehicle and in some cases it gets close to 200K miles. New batteries for a decade old hybrid can cost a bit over $4K.

So my gal deep cycles her computers and Iphone and basically kills them in about 1 1/2 years maybe 2 years max.

What I gleened about cars is that they try to regulate the charging to be between 40% and 80% ideally for long battery life. Interesting to note that Leica power supplies have a charging light that comes on at 80%.

So since I have three batteries I'll be trying to maintain them at 40%-80% to extend their life. I'll avoid fully charging to 100% and also deep cycling.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #53
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Thanks Cal for these info, do you have any suggestion about the LED Magnifier?

I see different types on the market where I live and not sure how to select one. Is a 6x magnifier (with LED lights) enough?

robert
I don't think a magnifier is very practical, as it get in the way of cleaning. If you really want to do enlarged cleaning, a surgical microscope (:lol: ) or, more realistically, telescope glasses with a light are more useful.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5X...820026954.html
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Old 03-20-2018   #54
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I don't think a magnifier is very practical, as it get in the way of cleaning. If you really want to do enlarged cleaning, a surgical microscope (:lol: ) or, more realistically, telescope glasses with a light are more useful.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5X...820026954.html
J,

In use the magnifier with LED's I mention is more for inspecting to make sure the sensor really is clean. This magnifier allows me to really see the sensor well enough to feel that it really is clean and free of dirt.

You are right in that the magnifier cannot really be used for helping during the physical cleaning. Pretty much for inspection only.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #55
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Be careful, Cal:
John,

I am 5'9" (age 60 shrunk an inch and used to be 5'10) and I only weigh 151 pounds, but my neck is thick and ugly like a football player from lugging cameras.

My tailor says my right arm is an inch longer than my left arm, which he says is a lot.

So I'm a skinny guy with an ultra fat neck and an extra long arm who needs custom clothing because somehow I have turned into a deformed monster. LOL.

I hope I don't look too scary. LOL.

Now that I intend on carrying around baby Linhofs to shoot NYC this summer I expect further deformity.

Cal
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Old 03-20-2018   #56
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I don't think a magnifier is very practical, as it get in the way of cleaning. If you really want to do enlarged cleaning, a surgical microscope (:lol: ) or, more realistically, telescope glasses with a light are more useful.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3-5X...820026954.html
Thanks Jaap, that is beautiful ! but I guess a little bit too much

robert
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Old 03-21-2018   #57
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..

I use the Rocket blowers, which do have a check valve. I think I'm good there.
Me too. But I always do a start with a couple of puffs away from the camera - just in case.
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Old 03-21-2018   #58
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Thanks Jaap, that is beautiful ! but I guess a little bit too much

robert
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Old 03-28-2018   #59
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I use a watchmakers loupe to inspect my sensors. Cheap and effective.
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Old 04-03-2018   #60
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Update: my M9 is now in Wetzlar and will be returned with a new sensor, replaced under goodwill. Leica UAE assumed because it was replaced literally within days of the new, non-corroding sensors being made available, that mine was OK for a wet clean. Obviously, it wasn't, and the clean exacerbated any existing corrosion issue. So, many thanks Leica. AAAA+. Will buy again.
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Old 04-04-2018   #61
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Would that be possible because they sell their products themselves in the US? German law doesn't know such a thing. Which might explain the attitude... It was possible in the case of one of the German car manufacturers, but they produce in the US. Does anyone know?
Porsche got hit with a class action suit over catastrophic engine failures due to failures of the bearings on the intermediate shaft. The cars are all made in Germany but the customers won. An undesclosed number of customers received new engines after the original engines self distructed. This failures occurred as low as less than 1000 miles in some and many at under 30,000. At the time this was going on I was in the market for a new Porsche but decided to go with another make due to the treatment Porsche inflicted on their customers and the fear they'd do something like that again.

Fortunately I got rid of my M9 before the corrosion issue came up. My M9 was in the shop half of it's life anyway for other problem. Like with Porsche, I was a loyal customer until they abused their customers and was a loyal customer of Leica until my experience with the M9.

Everyone complaining, you know that Leica has the worst service on the planet and their digital gear is behind the curve in quality and design but you keep whining. Doesn't make sense to me. You've asked for it in my view.
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Old 04-04-2018   #62
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So are the new replacement sensors (2017) expected to be free of further issues? Besides the obvious caveat that it could still happen in theory of course. But overall I guess?
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Old 04-04-2018   #63
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There should be a smaller chance for corrosion with the new M9 sensor. I see it as giving my M9 an extra 3 years of life.
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Old 04-04-2018   #64
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There should be a smaller chance for corrosion with the new M9 sensor. I see it as giving my M9 an extra 3 years of life.
Interesting. It's too bad the idea that it's a gamble at this point is seen over a good buy for an older digital rangefinder. The M9 is more appealing for taking photos but the M240 seems to be a more reliable option at this point.
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Old 04-04-2018   #65
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So are the new replacement sensors (2017) expected to be free of further issues? Besides the obvious caveat that it could still happen in theory of course. But overall I guess?
I've not seen a report of de-lamination in an M9/MM/ME redesigned sensor. Some who experienced it before the redesign had a replacement of the of the same type and remained susceptible to re-occurrence.
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Old 04-04-2018   #66
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I've not seen a report of de-lamination in an M9/MM/ME redesigned sensor. Some who experienced it before the redesign had a replacement of the of the same type and remained susceptible to re-occurrence.
Yes, the OP had a replaced first generation sensor.

Kudos to Leica for the goodwill installation of a second generation sensor assembly.
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Old 04-04-2018   #67
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Yes, the OP had a replaced first generation sensor.

Kudos to Leica for the goodwill installation of a second generation sensor assembly.
Not sure kudos is the right thing, seeing they knew they were replacing a defective sensor with another of the same defective design that would fail in the same way.
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Old 04-04-2018   #68
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Not sure kudos is the right thing, seeing they knew they were replacing a defective sensor with another of the same defective design that would fail in the same way.
1Praise and honour received for an achievement.

‘she was looking for kudos rather than profit’
More example sentencesSynonyms
1.1North American informal Compliments or congratulations.
‘kudos to everyone who put the event together’
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Old 04-04-2018   #69
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Not sure kudos is the right thing, seeing they knew they were replacing a defective sensor with another of the same defective design that would fail in the same way.
The alternative, of course, was to hold onto the camera until the re-designed sensors became available. Also, not all the sensors fail in this way. The Rangefinderforum poll on this question resulted in the majority of participants reporting either their original sensor definitely had no corrosion or that they had seen no sign of it.
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Old 04-04-2018   #70
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I took the risk and I sent in my M9 just on time and Leica found the sensor to need replacement even though I did not really identify any corrosion.
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Old 04-04-2018   #71
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I took the risk and I sent in my M9 just on time and Leica found the sensor to need replacement even though I did not really identify any corrosion.
Smart move Raid. Others will find out, unfortunately, too late.
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Old 04-04-2018   #72
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The alternative, of course, was to hold onto the camera until the re-designed sensors became available. Also, not all the sensors fail in this way. The Rangefinderforum poll on this question resulted in the majority of participants reporting either their original sensor definitely had no corrosion or that they had seen no sign of it.
It's possible that some who responded to the poll that there was no evidence of corrosion may have encountered it since. And another alternative action was to have sold the M9 before the problem was widely known! That's what I did, to help fund a new M240, and I got a very good price for it. Happy solution for me, and I have wondered if the new owner later suffered the sensor problem...
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Old 04-05-2018   #73
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1Praise and honour received for an achievement.

‘she was looking for kudos rather than profit’
More example sentencesSynonyms
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‘kudos to everyone who put the event together’
Kudos to Raid for the English refresher!

Raid: Did you get your M9 back yet?
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Old 04-05-2018   #74
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I opted for an M240 in light of the worries of sensor corrosion. This thread helped with that so my thanks to the community.
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Old 04-06-2018   #75
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I’m waiting for some smart a** to start selling used Leica M’s that come bundled with “36 single use monochrome sensors on a flexible triacetate substrate” that are user interchangeable and are available at multiple locations worldwide.

Or, since Leica was shipping the MA with a roll of tri-x they could advertise it as the “ new and improved Monochrom”
I kept one M6 which takes 36 fresh sensors at one load.

Digital is really nice though. Clean out the camera before stuff migrates to the sensor. Dust and grime are detrimental to shutter life also. Lens Pen and lighted loupe are what I use if blower does not work. Also store in sealed container with desicant that absorbs moisture. Can`t hurt.
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Old 04-06-2018   #76
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Rob,

The idea here is doing the maintenance prevents needing any future wet cleaning after a camera's initial break in where oils and grease can migrate. Really a monthly routine to prevent bonding of dust to the sensor. Also working indoors in a controlled environment and doing lens changing to a minimum.

Really prevention is the best measure. I found that a blower ball with a check valve, and inverting the camera with the lens down like Raid does was all that was needed for 99% of any dust. Pretty much "flushing" in this manner whenever I remove a lens is all that is needed.

The few times I used the Arctic Butterfly was only because I had been lax and not blown out the dust or done lens changing in the street and not
done a "flushing" when I got home. Pretty much dust does not bond to the sensor unless it has time.

I spent $350.00 for the Visible dust kit that included everything I would ever need: wet cleaning supplies, Arctic Butterfly, blower ball, and this wonderful magnifier with a ring of LEDS.

I had to do those two wet cleanings until I learned about how "flushing" really was preventative maintenance. The Arctic Butterfly really was only needed because I was lazy. Pretty much if you don't need the entire kit you in the least need a blower ball and to me the Magnifier with LED's makes sure you see any tiny speck of dust. The Arctic Butterfly is nice to have, but I have had to seldom use it.

Realize that NYC is a dirty filthy city. Dirt is everywhere. YMMV. If you do your research it seems that the best system to use is the one made for Visible Dust. Remember it was reported that Leica uses V.D. too.

All the best.

Cal
What I do also. Have not had to pick up dust from sensor for a very long time. PREVENTION is key.
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Old 04-06-2018   #77
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Kudos to Raid for the English refresher!

Raid: Did you get your M9 back yet?
No, Rob. Someone has it somewhere!
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Old 05-27-2018   #78
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Well, got it back, FINALLY. And after paying a small fortune in Customs and VAT which I will have to try and claim back as it should have been VAT exempt, and a value mistake on VAT. Thing is, in the time its been away I've become addicted to an M6. To sell or not to sell!
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Old 08-01-2018   #79
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(repost from l-camera - so apologies if you've seen it there - hoping to get some more thoughts from the RFF community)

Hi all,

I'm hoping for a little advice re my Leica ME. Please note this is not an attempt to complain - I know that some of my choices have put me in this situation.

- I purchased my ME from a friend not long after he bought it in March 2013 (he returned to his Nikon gear). I loved the camera.

- In September 2015 it suffered a pixel defect whereby the images showed a vertical line, I returned it to my local dealer in Australia - camera clinic - who after sending it to Solms reported that it was also suffering from sensor corrosion. Leica replaced the sensor free of charge.

- Not long after it was returned I bought a Type 262 which became my primary shooter. I loved the camera.

- The ME sat in my dry cabinet and was only shot 2-3 times as a back up over the next couple of years. I then traded the 262 for an M-D. I love (present tense) the camera.

- Fast forward to the start of this year - I moved to the UK and last month sent the ME to Ffordes to trade toward some new lenses.

- On receiving the camera Ffordes informed me that the new sensor had also corroded, but they would send it to Solms to be looked at.

- Today FFordes contacted me to tell me that Solms will replace the sensor for £1193

As it stands, I see a couple of options....

Option A: Pay for the repair then trade the camera for the £1300 FFordes are offering - hence getting £113 for the ME

Option B: Get the ME back without repair and run it into the ground until corrosion becomes so bad that it needs to be thrown away (or better yet, give it to a friend - telling them about the sensor obviously).

I am currently leaning towards option B - but am I missing something here?

Any suggestions / thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking
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Old 08-01-2018   #80
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(repost from l-camera - so apologies if you've seen it there - hoping to get some more thoughts from the RFF community)

Hi all,

I'm hoping for a little advice re my Leica ME. Please note this is not an attempt to complain - I know that some of my choices have put me in this situation.

- I purchased my ME from a friend not long after he bought it in March 2013 (he returned to his Nikon gear). I loved the camera.

- In September 2015 it suffered a pixel defect whereby the images showed a vertical line, I returned it to my local dealer in Australia - camera clinic - who after sending it to Solms reported that it was also suffering from sensor corrosion. Leica replaced the sensor free of charge.

- Not long after it was returned I bought a Type 262 which became my primary shooter. I loved the camera.

- The ME sat in my dry cabinet and was only shot 2-3 times as a back up over the next couple of years. I then traded the 262 for an M-D. I love (present tense) the camera.

- Fast forward to the start of this year - I moved to the UK and last month sent the ME to Ffordes to trade toward some new lenses.

- On receiving the camera Ffordes informed me that the new sensor had also corroded, but they would send it to Solms to be looked at.

- Today FFordes contacted me to tell me that Solms will replace the sensor for £1193

As it stands, I see a couple of options....

Option A: Pay for the repair then trade the camera for the £1300 FFordes are offering - hence getting £113 for the ME

Option B: Get the ME back without repair and run it into the ground until corrosion becomes so bad that it needs to be thrown away (or better yet, give it to a friend - telling them about the sensor obviously).

I am currently leaning towards option B - but am I missing something here?

Any suggestions / thoughts greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking

Leica has a trade in for these cameras I think. Ask them directly.

1300gpb for a working ME (no corrosion) seems like a bad deal too.
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