Sensor Replacement Policy 2017
Old 05-15-2017   #1
Calzone
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Sensor Replacement Policy 2017

Until 15 August 2017 the current policy of free sensor replacement for effected models (M9, M9-P, MM, and M-E) if affected by the corrosion problem continues.

Post 16 August 2017 the above still applies, but with the stipulation that the camera has been purchased new within the past 5 years.

Also post 16 August 2017 there is a new program for cameras purchased more than 5 years ago, where the customer pays a portion of the replacement costs for the sensor replacement (982 euros/ 825 euros plus 19% VAT) with the bonus of a "Free General Overhaul" with a one year warranty.

The upgrade offers now have more attractive terms but are limited to Typ 240 generation cameras.

I had my MM undergo sensor replacement. I sent it in early December last year, was told 8-10 weeks, but it took 12 weeks..

Cal
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Old 05-15-2017   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
Very interesting, Cal. Where did you learn this?

I guess those immediately affected will be second-hand owners (completely out of luck) and M9 owners who bought more than five years ago. I believe the M-E and MM were introduced five years ago, so those owners will have to pay close attention to their expiration date.

Glad I had mine done last year. I always considered it pretty generous of Leica to fix cameras of second-hand owners, which I am.

John
John,

I got this info from Leica. If you PM your E-mail I'll forward you the E-mail I received.

Kinda hurry up for people who bought used CCD cameras. The envelope is closing, and the phase out begins.

If you want your sensor replacement for free the time is now. Hurry-up.

Cal
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Old 05-15-2017   #3
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Sounds like a reasonable update to the program.

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Old 05-15-2017   #4
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Well, knowing what Leica isn't something cheap, paying 852 + VAT Euro for sensor replacement and this :

*The general overhaul of the Leica M-camera includes the following items:

• Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
• Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
• Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
• Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
• Refurbishment of engravings
• Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
• Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

seems to be OK.

This should be visible for everyone, I guess:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models
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Old 05-15-2017   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
That's alright, I'll wait for the announcement.

I think Leica can expect a flood of cameras for inspection starting now.

John
John,

Could be a bottleneck in the last minute rush.

Cal
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Old 05-15-2017   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Well, knowing what Leica isn't something cheap, paying 852 + VAT Euro for sensor replacement and this :

*The general overhaul of the Leica M-camera includes the following items:

Cleaning and overhaul of the shutter cocking mechanisms
Cleaning and maintenance/repair of the multifunction wheel
Cleaning of the main switch and shutter speed dial
Adjustment of the baseplate locking system
Refurbishment of engravings
Renewal of the protective film on the baseplate
Maintenance/repair of viewfinder displays

seems to be OK.

This should be visible for everyone, I guess:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models
Ko-Fe,

Thanks for the link.

Cal
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Old 05-15-2017   #7
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I think they are missing out on a possible review source. For folks who purchased a camera used they could increase the cost by 50% and support the folks who did not feel used supported at a level befitting the Leica image.

I just don't see a lot of opportunity for independent repair people to make a business out of working on digital M's. My guess is that it would take a lot of capital investment to buy specialized equipment.

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Old 05-15-2017   #8
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Thanks Cal. I also received the email from Leica about the new policy earlier today. My 4-year old M9M did not develop the symptoms of the dreaded pox as yet....does anyone know how to induce it?
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Old 05-15-2017   #9
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Originally Posted by JMQ View Post
Thanks Cal. I also received the email from Leica about the new policy earlier today. My 4-year old M9M did not develop the symptoms of the dreaded pox as yet....does anyone know how to induce it?
Jean-Marc,

A humid enviornment will encourage the corrosion.

My sensor on my MM only had a trace. The corrosion was only visible in some files.

Also my MM I got delivery about 5 months from the initial fall release. Might my camera be over 5 years old? I got it late January or early February; shot the camera for two years just downloading onto a computer, and now I think I have been printing for now three years.

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M9 Sensor Replacement 2017
Old 05-15-2017   #10
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M9 Sensor Replacement 2017

Some news on changes to the conditions governing M9 sensor replacement:

http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-...-camera-models

"From 16 August 2017, and until further notice, we will offer our customers the following new programme for all camera models mentioned above that were purchased longer than five years ago. Here, the customer pays a share of the replacement costs for the affected CCD sensor amounting to 982 euros (825 euros plus 19% VAT). Included in this programme is a free general overhaul* of your Leica M camera and a one year warranty on the same terms as for new products."
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Old 05-15-2017   #11
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Thank you for posting this. I had been procrastinating because I was using my M9 so much in situations -- wide open or nearly, dim bars -- where the corrosion wasn't noticeable.
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Old 05-15-2017   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sevres_babylone View Post
Thank you for posting this. I had been procrastinating because I was using my M9 so much in situations -- wide open or nearly, dim bars -- where the corrosion wasn't noticeable.
S-B,

Hurry up. Don't loose out on your opportunity.

Best of luck.

Cal
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Old 05-15-2017   #13
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The parties...over..
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Old 05-15-2017   #14
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This does not sound good. Basically, Leica is moving users to the M10.
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Old 05-15-2017   #15
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You would think they'd replace every sensor that became corroded, or might. You can get a rebel xs for $100 these days.
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Old 05-15-2017   #16
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So, this will affect used prices on M9 cameras that are over 5 years old?
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Old 05-15-2017   #17
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John, this will absolutely affect all CCD cameras that are over 5 years old and still have the old sensor. I suppose the price for these cameras will drop by the sensor replacement cost or about USD$1000.
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Old 05-15-2017   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
This does not sound good. Basically, Leica is moving users to the M10.
or to another brand?
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Old 05-15-2017   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwolf View Post
I guess the question is, at what price would you purchase one, knowing you could face a $1K bill?

Then again, if five years has passed without an issue, can the camera be assumed to be immune?
It's also the hassle of having to wait 4-5 months in addition to the cost...I don't know about sensors being immune, I thought it's a matter of "when" and not "if"
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Old 05-15-2017   #20
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Yeah, but then again LCDs for the M8 are no longer available and people still buy them for around the same price as a few years ago.
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Old 05-15-2017   #21
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Are there any cases of the replacement sensors going bad?

Leica M9s in the UK are now around 2000 so if they drop any further it may be cheaper to buy one with a replaced sensor rather than getting a repair.
I must have got my M9 mid 2010 had the sensor replaced June 2016, so maybe if I get another 5 years out of this sensor I should be doing ok!
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Old 05-15-2017   #22
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Another thought,
Its a weird thing for Leica to announce as surely most of the sensors have been replaced so any that still need to be will be very low numbers I would of thought that the bad press would out weigh the remaining cost of replacements.
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Old 05-15-2017   #23
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This will have to create a few M9 bricks unfortunately ... but not too many hopefully.

As someone pointed out the party couldn't last forever.
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Old 05-15-2017   #24
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John, this will absolutely affect all CCD cameras that are over 5 years old and still have the old sensor. I suppose the price for these cameras will drop by the sensor replacement cost or about USD$1000.
rofl

industry expert much?
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Old 05-15-2017   #25
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The easiest way for Leica to clean out the remaining 240 stock.
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Old 05-15-2017   #26
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Jean Marc, certainly humidity is the thing that will set off the corrosion. You could accelerate it by wet cleaning it with something hygroscopic I guess but don't make it look too rough. Or you could leave it lensless in your bathroom while you shower.
I think you should send yours in for assessment and let them tell you. My MM sensor took about 4 weeks to get replaced by Leica's repairer in Melbourne, and my two M9s about the same amount of time to be done by Leica Japan. All were done earlier this year.
From the stories here, Leica US is also taking about 4 weeks.
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Old 05-15-2017   #27
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I have new sensors in my M9 and MM and consequently don't worry.
The replacement of the MM sensor after it was inspected and confirmed it had the corrosion, took 4 business days.
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Old 05-15-2017   #28
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I think the good news is they will still replace for $1000.
I suspect that might hurt the used value of the M9/MM that have not been replaced. Might be a good gamble for people who wants one, it's not like the sensor will definitely go bad, right?
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Old 05-15-2017   #29
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My rough estimate ... there is a 98.56% chance that the sensor will go bad.
The remaining 1.44% are accounting for shelf queens in a climate controled cabinet with less than 20% humidity.
As I said though, ... a rough estimate
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Old 05-15-2017   #30
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it's not like the sensor will definitely go bad, right?
No, it will go bad. The majority of people here have had theirs replaced. Some people just don't notice because it doesn't show so much when shooting wide open snaps of cats.
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Old 05-15-2017   #31
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No, it will go bad. The majority of people here have had theirs replaced. Some people just don't notice because it doesn't show so much when shooting wide open snaps of cats.

That's a little dismissive Huss... in many ways the cat shooters have kept that company afloat.
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Old 05-15-2017   #32
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That's a little dismissive Huss... in many ways the cat shooters have kept that company afloat.
Let's be honest Keith. They've kept the entire digital industry afloat.



(Leicas are actually not so good for cat pics. My D750 is awesome for that!)
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Old 05-15-2017   #33
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All the cat talks reminds me of a funny awkward story.

I once had 3 M3s, bought them in a package deal for lenses and had to sell some.
A Leica collector contacted me to view the M3s. During our meeting we started to talk about different lenses, and he mentioned the noctilux. I said I haven't bought one because of the size, I shoot leica because they are compact and I do carry around my gears, it's not like I'm just at home shooting cats. Then he was quiet, after a few seconds he said "well... I do shoot lots of cats at home...". The situation became very awkward from that point on.
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Old 05-15-2017   #34
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Let's be honest Keith. They've kept the entire digital industry afloat.



(Leicas are actually not so good for cat pics. My D750 is awesome for that!)
True Huss yes ... lol
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Old 05-15-2017   #35
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Jean Marc, certainly humidity is the thing that will set off the corrosion. You could accelerate it by wet cleaning it with something hygroscopic I guess but don't make it look too rough. Or you could leave it lensless in your bathroom while you shower.
I think you should send yours in for assessment and let them tell you. My MM sensor took about 4 weeks to get replaced by Leica's repairer in Melbourne, and my two M9s about the same amount of time to be done by Leica Japan. All were done earlier this year.
From the stories here, Leica US is also taking about 4 weeks.
Thanks Pete...funny, I was thinking of doing exactly that....
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Old 05-15-2017   #36
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I have a low mileage CCD MM with no issues so far but understand it is inevitable. So I can choose to "upgrade" to a CMOS MM now or later when the problem is confirmed?
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Old 05-15-2017   #37
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The thing I would worry about if I were an M9 owner is..why exactly now...in other words..why charge for all this right now..as of Aug 2017..when the truth of the matter is..Leica sold M9s with crappy sensors for years...and now want to charge for replacements..when the entire matter was 100% their fault to begin with..
So..
Are they finally running out of sensors..is the day coming soon..when the M9 is going the way of the M8..and suddenly..no sensors available anymore...as in..we aint fixin them anymore...so just..buy an M10..and put your M9 away ..for good..
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Old 05-15-2017   #38
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If you have a sensor replaced in 2015 or earlier just make sure it wasn't replaced with the 'old' sensor.

If it was replaced with the 'old' sensor, have you camera checked for corrosion before august. Not sure how Leica will treat replaced 'old' sensors gone bad. Probably there will be a good arrangement since the problem is almost certainly going to come back with these sensors.
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Old 05-15-2017   #39
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Both my Monochrom and M9-P (corrosion developed after 140 pictures!) are having new sensor replaced but I have to rant here: what a lame **** Leica is!
And I will repeat here what I have written in other thread as well - based on my experience I think that EVERY SINGLE M9 type of camera will develop corrosion sooner or later.
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Old 05-16-2017   #40
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There is no evidence of the corrosion problem being universal. In fact, the number of reports in the forums has dropped to nearly zero. So let's not start a myth. My M9 from 12 September 2009 does not show any trace, for instance.
Having said that, I think Leica lost a lot of credibility by this change of policy - I for one am quite negative about it.
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