90mm fast ones for M6 ?
Old 01-22-2007   #1
alexz
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90mm fast ones for M6 ?

Well, so far enjoying my M6 with latest 'cron 50mm I eventially will round up my lens lineup by 90mm and 28mm. Most certainly this is not going to occur very soon, but certainly in some foreseable future.
Now, I'm a bit confused with is 90mm options, obviously asking for advises I have to elaborate the prospective usage of the lens: the common one which is portraiture where I need a bit tighter composition from a bearable distance then my 50mm 'cron can offer, my another passion is shooting concerts (rock and probably more calm type of stage musical performance). I used to do concert work in the past with my SLR and fast telezoom so I'm aware what does that involve and how important fastest possible aperture can be. However, there are additional factors that may interfare such as bulkness and usage convenience.
So far I'm aware about two possible contenders, both of which are Leica:
Summicron 90mm/2 and 90mm/2.8 Elmarit.
Unfortunately the latest APO version of Summicron is out of the equation - way off my budget however the pre-APO and Elmarit appear to be in.

My question is what are relative merits of the pre-APO 'Cron 90mm/2 vs Elmarit 90mm/2.2 aside of full stop speed difference ? Say, are there any significant optical differences between 'Cron 90mm/2 @ f2.8 and fully opened Elmarit ?
How the 'Cron performs wide open ?
I keep hearing 'Cron 90mm/2 is one really large lens, some even consider it huge comparative to Elmarit 90mm/2.8. Is that the case ? My M6 is M6 Classic 0.72 if that matters...
I'm in no rush for the lens, just trying to explore possible options towards my prospective decision in the future..

Thanks, Alex
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Old 01-22-2007   #2
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Hello: The 90 f2 Apo Summicron is petite by SLR standards but a monster compared to a 90 Elmar. It is sharp wide open, some suggest it gives up a little at close focus.

The Tele-Elmarit is the size performance winner, IMHO, as long as you use/like the mandatory hood.

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Old 01-22-2007   #3
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Thanks Frank, but as I mentioned APO version of the 'Cron is out of my consideraiton due to being way out of my budget, so we can talk about a non-APO version.
Now, I may not be in-line with all 90mm/2.8 versions - I know there is Elmarit 90mm/2.8, heard about Tele-Elmarit 90mm/2.8 and something about Elmar (also 90mm/2.8 ?) Am I wrong ?
How is Tele-Elmarit ? How it fares against non-Tele version ? What are its relative merits against the non-tele ?
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Old 01-22-2007   #4
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Leica 90 f2.8s come in four varieties.

1. The chrome (usually) Elmarit which is long focus
2. The black (usually) "fat" Tele-Elmarit, very compact
3. The black "thin" Tele-Elmarit, also very compact and light
4. The current Elmarit-M (with built in hood), compact but very heavy.

I have the thin TE, it's excellent.

This thread discusses the merits of various Leica 90's at some length.
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Old 01-22-2007   #5
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No love here for the M-Hexanon 90/2.8?
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Reading my mind?
Old 01-22-2007   #6
venchka
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Cool Reading my mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPA
No love here for the M-Hexanon 90/2.8?
That could be very scary!

While reading, the words were headed toward my fingers: Do not overlook the M-Hexanons at 28mm and 90mm. There is a 90mm listed on ebay with a Buy It Now price of $400. One sold yesterday on ebay for $405.

That said, I own a 1965 Elmarit 90/2.8 and love it! However, I am sorely tempted to sell it and buy the 90mm M-Hexanon.

An example from my "old" 90mm Elmarit, 1:5.6 or maybe 1:8.0 with flash.

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Old 01-22-2007   #7
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If you are liking the characteristics of your 50/2 Summicron (and who doesn't!), I think the current 90/2.8 Elmarit-M would be a perfect match. It has sharpness, contrast, and out of focus areas that remind me a lot of my former (now your) 50/2 Summicron. I don't find its weight an issue. It is compact and balances really well on my MP.

I have not tried any other 90, but it appears that there are many good ones w/ the 2.8 max aperture. If you need a little more speed, I think the 90/2 Summicron pre-apo is the way to go, but I have never been impressed by how unwieldy it looks on an M-body.
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Old 01-23-2007   #8
Ben Z
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexz

My question is what are relative merits of the pre-APO 'Cron 90mm/2 vs Elmarit
I'm assuming you are talking about the latest 90 Elmarit, the one with the telescoping hood that takes a 46mm filter, and the most recent pre-APO Summicron with 55mm filter size.

I had the Elmarit in question and just by chance happened upon a very mint sample of the Summicron in question at a camera shop and they let me take it home for the weekend. Aside from the obvious difference in diameter, there is very little difference in length and weight between the two. In controlled (tripod) but real-world subject comparing them I found that at normal to long distance from f/2.8 on down there is no difference between them. The Elmarit is a little better in the corners at the nearest focus distance (1m) until f/4-5.6 but you really have to look hard to see it. From f/5.6 they are identical everywhere.

Since the Summicron does offer twice the speed when you need it, I bought it and sold the Elmarit and have never regretted it. I have a Tele-Elmarit for when size and weight are a major consideration.
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Old 01-23-2007   #9
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the hex 90/2.8 is a solid, well made and sharp lens.
a bargain in the rf world.
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Old 01-23-2007   #10
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Was it ever settled whether the Konica lenses that were designed for the Hexar's back focus will focus properly on Leica bodies without being readjusted?
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Old 01-23-2007   #11
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mine works well on the zi.
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Old 01-23-2007   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Z
Was it ever settled whether the Konica lenses that were designed for the Hexar's back focus will focus properly on Leica bodies without being readjusted?
If I were a really evil man I would propogate this rumour wherever and whenever I could just to drive down the prices of ALL M-Hexanon lenses, but as it stands I'm only somewhat evil. The Hex lenses I've used (the 28, 35, 50 and the 90) all work great and are tack sharp on my M-bodies.



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I own this combination too
Old 01-23-2007   #13
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Cool I own this combination too

Quote:
Originally Posted by memphis
I really like my old chrome elmarit 2.8 90mm -- ... another good lens to carry is the cv 75 2.5 with hood --- it's also a nice lens
I also own the new 75mm & old 90mm combination as well. I like this combination. One of these days, and sooner rather than later, I'm going out with 2 bodies and the 75 & 90 combination. See what happens. I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 01-23-2007   #14
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the 90 APO Lanthar from CV should also be worth a look. It is reputedly pin sharp wide open and only imprves very slightly stopping down. It is a superb price and according to accounts it is well made. The price is of course excellent. Putz seems to rate it very highly indeed...read his review which uncharacteristically suggests it is a decent leica alternative.
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Old 01-23-2007   #15
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I used a 90/2 Summicron-M (pre-APO model) wide open for live music photography and got so many mis-focused shots I sold it. Apparently, the DOF on the 90/2 wide open is even thinner than the Noctilux. Perhaps if you are dealing with stagnant musicians or a guitarist or pianist that is sitting down it's not a problem, but if your subject is moving around a lot you might find it difficult to achieve accurate focus wide open. I kept my 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit, though, and I love it!
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Old 01-23-2007   #16
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I have used most of the Leica 90s, and every one has been a good performer. I think it comes down to what attributes you value in a lens: speed, size, economy, et al. The newer lenses have the edge in contrast at the larger apertures, but the older ones are lovely. My most used 90 is the Version 1 Elmarit. The 90 Summicron lens ( I have the Apo ASPH ) does have shallow depth of field wide open in the near range; approximately as narrow as my 75 Summilux at F1.4. I think it is difficult to find a bad lens in this focal length range.
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Old 01-23-2007   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Z
Was it ever settled whether the Konica lenses that were designed for the Hexar's back focus will focus properly on Leica bodies without being readjusted?
Ben I am not sure if it was ever settled that the M-Hexanons needed any adjustment at all!
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Old 01-23-2007   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Z
Was it ever settled whether the Konica lenses that were designed for the Hexar's back focus will focus properly on Leica bodies without being readjusted?
I guess we can infer by your statement/question, that it hasn't, otherwise, why ask the fact-stating question, right?
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Old 01-23-2007   #19
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Thanks guys, it seems when the time will be up for a 90mm lens, I'll narrow my choices to per-ASPH Summicron 90mm/2 or late (II) Elmarit 90mm/2.8 (both are priced at the same ballpark) and it seems the major contemptation will be size/bulk (Elmarit wins) vs. speed (Summicron takes)...
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