brain dead M-D
Old 06-05-2016   #1
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
 
AusDLK's Avatar
 
AusDLK is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 996
brain dead M-D

no auto shutoff? two unexpected dead batteries in less than 5 days (maybe 25 exposures?) -- brain dead Leica strikes again, completely ruined my joy of ownership, almost as unforgivable as the broken toy sound of the M8's shutter, my M-D is going back and i'm not likely to give it a second chance
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2016   #2
Addy101
Registered User
 
Addy101 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,522
Hardly - if they implemented an auto shut off, they needed a way to set the duration and you can't do that without a screen. An auto shut off would really be stupid.

There is a on-off switch, use it.
__________________
Das Bild ist ein Modell der Wirklichkeit - Wittgenstein
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-05-2016   #3
Vince Lupo
Registered User
 
Vince Lupo's Avatar
 
Vince Lupo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,859
I read Mike Evans' post about this (and saw your response there too): http://macfilos.com/photo/2016/5/6/l...saving-disable

L-Camera-Forum also has a discussion about this issue.

So let me ask you, are you leaving the camera sit idle in your camera bag for a few days switched on? I am about to take delivery of an M-D myself, so this would be good information to know.

Does this seem like something that - if a photographer wanted the option of auto-shutoff - could be corrected with a simple firmware update? The response from Leica (according to Mike Evans' article) was that the auto-shutoff function was purposely disabled based upon M60 customer feedback. Could a firmware update allow for 're-enabling' of the auto-shutoff? Guess that would be a Leica factory decision, if it's at all possible.
__________________
Check Out Our Redesigned Website! http://www.directiononeinc.com

Flickr Albums: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/sets/

Check Out Our Latest Work On Our Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/

'Mapping the West' - Named as one of the Best Photo Exhibits of 2016 by the Washington City Paper: http://www.directiononeinc.com/mapping-the-west/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #4
Mute-on
Registered User
 
Mute-on is offline
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 309
So the dealer will have a now second hand Leica body (I presume you purchased it new from a dealer) and will take a loss on any future sale, all because you can't be bothered to use an on/off switch?

You can't return an expensive electronic item in every country just because you discover a feature you don't like. You are lucky to have the option where you live. Still, you might have asked the question at the dealer or read the manual online before purchase.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #5
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
 
sevo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Frankfurt, Germany
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addy101 View Post
Hardly - if they implemented an auto shut off, they needed a way to set the duration and you can't do that without a screen. An auto shut off would really be stupid.
Most of my classic electronic SLRs starting with the Nikon FE had an auto shut off for the meter. And no screen, nor any other way to alter the fixed duration.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #6
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by sevo View Post
Most of my classic electronic SLRs starting with the Nikon FE had an auto shut off for the meter. And no screen, nor any other way to alter the fixed duration.
Exactly. That was the case on the Rollei 35SE too... You know, that crappy thing made in Singapore.

That was long ago, a time when people knew without any doubt that the auto shut-off time for all electronic devices having that feature would be about 12 seconds.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #7
maitani
Registered User
 
maitani's Avatar
 
maitani is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 738
I suspect it's a 'feature' easy corrected in a fw update, but I like the approach that the have removed the feature on purpose for faster response time, although a 4 minute or so 'auto-off-timer' should be standard. how did you like the M-D other than 'that'?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #8
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by maitani View Post
(...) but I like the approach that the have removed the feature on purpose for faster response time (...)
With a camera that has no screen and no built-in AF, the response time by half-depressing the shutter release should be instant even if the camera has gone to auto shut-off to save the battery.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #9
nobbylon
Registered User
 
nobbylon's Avatar
 
nobbylon is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Nederlands
Posts: 2,681
Seriously? As someone else asks before me, did yo not read the manual or ask the question first before buying? Sounds like a 1st world problem to me. I can't believe you would actually admit this here and I think it's hilarious.
I left my M9p on in my backpack and it had intermitently switched itself on and off while pressing against other stuff resulting in a flat battery. I changed the battery and now always switch it off when I'm not using. Is that too difficult to remember?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #10
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
What is hilarious is to see an $7,000 digital camera coming on the market in 2016 not having an auto shut-off.

When I had my D700 the auto shut-off worked perfectly and the battery was lasting forever even if the camera was in the bag for long whiles during the day.

Seriously.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #11
jojoman2
Registered User
 
jojoman2 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 289
wouldn't the auto shut off of a camera without a screen trigger whenever the camera wasn't in use?

Lets say I made a photo and walked for 20-30 minutes with the camera around my neck before I stumbled across another scene worth photographing. I would rather have the camera be ready to shoot than have to turn it on, whatever else you have to do when you turn on an M-D.
__________________
kingofkodak.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #12
Addy101
Registered User
 
Addy101 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,522
Seriously - not everybody wants auto shut off. That is why you can choose the setting in most cameras to off if you want to. I think Leica was right when they excluded it from a camera like this. Just turn it off when you stow it away - it is that easy!

Someone stated that with a camera that has no screen and no built-in AF, the response time by half-depressing the shutter release should be instant. That means it is just the screen that takes time to turn on and you're forgetting all the other electronics inside.

And the light meter in all those old cameras were on the moment you power them, completely different from the electronics of modern cameras.

But it seems opinions are mixed, giving Leica a big problem - some people want auto shut off, others don't. They need to find a way to switch it on or off by the user.
__________________
Das Bild ist ein Modell der Wirklichkeit - Wittgenstein
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #13
ernstk
Retro Renaissance
 
ernstk's Avatar
 
ernstk is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 381
Seems a very extreme response to a minor issue. So now that you know that it has no auto shut off, why not just discipline yourself into switching it off?

Rather than indulging you in a refund, hopefully your dealer will show you how to operate the camera.
__________________
www.flickr.com/photos/ernstkallus/

M-P, M8, M2, 35 Summilux pre ASPH, Summilux 35 pre, Summaron 35/2.8, Elmarit 21/2.8, CV 21/4
Ricoh GR Digital
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #14
Archlich
Registered User
 
Archlich is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,377
Who don't want auto shut off anyway?
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #15
Vince Lupo
Registered User
 
Vince Lupo's Avatar
 
Vince Lupo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addy101 View Post
Seriously - not everybody wants auto shut off. That is why you can choose the setting in most cameras to off if you want to. I think Leica was right when they excluded it from a camera like this. Just turn it off when you stow it away - it is that easy!

Someone stated that with a camera that has no screen and no built-in AF, the response time by half-depressing the shutter release should be instant. That means it is just the screen that takes time to turn on and you're forgetting all the other electronics inside.

And the light meter in all those old cameras were on the moment you power them, completely different from the electronics of modern cameras.

But it seems opinions are mixed, giving Leica a big problem - some people want auto shut off, others don't. They need to find a way to switch it on or off by the user.
Sensible thinking. I can't personally see this issue as a complete deal-killer for me (though I don't yet have the camera in hand), but having said that, it would be nice if you could choose to have auto shutoff activated or not. As mentioned, perhaps a subsequent firmware update might offer this feature (assuming that a simple firmware tweak has the ability to do this - I'm not really up on this stuff).

I don't think it's going to really affect the way I will use the camera -- normally I turn my Monochrom 246 off when I'm not using it, so hopefully it won't be a problem.
__________________
Check Out Our Redesigned Website! http://www.directiononeinc.com

Flickr Albums: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/sets/

Check Out Our Latest Work On Our Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/

'Mapping the West' - Named as one of the Best Photo Exhibits of 2016 by the Washington City Paper: http://www.directiononeinc.com/mapping-the-west/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #16
marcr1230
Registered User
 
marcr1230's Avatar
 
marcr1230 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,371
Have the on/off switch be in auto on/off when off
I.e. When on - you're in charge
When off - 1/2 press shutter turns it on for 12 secs

Great idea?
__________________
Too many cameras, too little time
Gallery: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/rffg....php?uid=25736
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #17
zuiko85
Registered User
 
zuiko85 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,060
My M4-2 has auto shut off when I've forgot to advance after the last frame. Nothing worse than seeing a fleeting shot, you are already at hyperfocal, quickly framing and......oh drat!
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #18
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,274
I find most cameras react better to turning on than coming out of sleep mode. This wouldn't bother me.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #19
willie_901
Registered User
 
willie_901's Avatar
 
willie_901 is offline
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,373
I assume modern film Ms have meters and batteries and no auto shut off mechanism? Could you kill a M6's meter battery by neglecting to turn the camera off?

Perhaps your experience, while disappointing to you, is simply consistent with Leica wanting to create the virtual experience of using a film M camera.
__________________
Basically, I mean, ah—well, let’s say that for me anyway when a photograph is interesting, it’s interesting because of the kind of photographic problem it states—which has to do with the . . . contest between content and form.
Garry Winogrand
williamchuttonjr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #20
Ken Ford
Refuses to suffer fools
 
Ken Ford's Avatar
 
Ken Ford is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Suburban Chicago, IL USA
Age: 57
Posts: 3,030
According to a thread over on the L forum the option to enable auto shutoff is coming in a firmware release. I personally prefer not having auto-shutoff and either disable it or set the timeout as long as possible on my cameras.
__________________
"If you can control yourself and just loathe us quietly from a distance then by all means stay." - Joe

Leica: M-P Typ 240 - M6 - Leicavit M - RapidWinder - Motor M - 21 Super-Elmar - 28 Ultron - 35 Summicron ASPH - 40 Summicron - 75 APO-Summicron ASPH - 75 Summarit-M - 75 Color-Heliar - 90 Elmar-C
Nikon RF: S2 - S3 2000 - 35/2.5 - 50/2 - 50/1.4 Millennium - 105/2.5 - 135/3.4
X-Pro2, X-M1, X100s, NEX-7, dp0 Quattro, N1V1, N1V2, oodles of other stuff
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #21
Vince Lupo
Registered User
 
Vince Lupo's Avatar
 
Vince Lupo is offline
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ford View Post
According to a thread over on the L forum the option to enable auto shutoff is coming in a firmware release. I personally prefer not having auto-shutoff and either disable it or set the timeout as long as possible on my cameras.
Just got off the phone with Leica NJ, and the tech figured that if you were to walk around all day (like 6-8 hours) with the camera constantly on, you'd likely drain the battery.

As you mention Ken, Leica is aware of the issue and is considering addressing it with the next firmware update. The tech said that yes, a simple firmware adjustment could re-activate the auto-shutoff.
__________________
Check Out Our Redesigned Website! http://www.directiononeinc.com

Flickr Albums: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/sets/

Check Out Our Latest Work On Our Flickr Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/direction-one-inc/

'Mapping the West' - Named as one of the Best Photo Exhibits of 2016 by the Washington City Paper: http://www.directiononeinc.com/mapping-the-west/
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #22
BLKRCAT
99% Film
 
BLKRCAT's Avatar
 
BLKRCAT is offline
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addy101 View Post
Hardly - if they implemented an auto shut off, they needed a way to set the duration and you can't do that without a screen. An auto shut off would really be stupid.

There is a on-off switch, use it.
While I agree that the OP should just use the on off switch, I don't see why leica can't create an interface to set custom settings from a computer. Things like auto shutoff could be done here since they wouldn't need to be changed more than once or ever.
__________________
TumblrYoutube
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #23
splitimageview
Registered User
 
splitimageview is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,308
They could use a USB interface to adjust various settings. Or just a button-press combination.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #24
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 8,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by AusDLK View Post
no auto shutoff?
I like it even more now.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #25
Gid
Registered User
 
Gid's Avatar
 
Gid is offline
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Suffolk, UK
Posts: 1,749
I think the OP has a point - most digital cameras have an auto off feature (certainly every digital camera I have / have owned). It would not be unreasonable IMO to consider that the default for any digital camera would be to have an auto off feature. This may or may not be important for any particular user, but it would annoy me to come back to a flat battery. Even though the vast majority of the time I remember to switch off my cameras before putting in the bag, on the odd occasion that I forget ..........
__________________
My Gallery

My Top Ten

Gid
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #26
thawkins
Registered User
 
thawkins's Avatar
 
thawkins is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Age: 70
Posts: 391
This just proves the point that you can screw up more with a computer in thirty seconds than you can build in a year.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #27
nobbylon
Registered User
 
nobbylon's Avatar
 
nobbylon is offline
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Nederlands
Posts: 2,681
well I've just turned my auto off OFF on my M9. Drives me crazy when I go to take a pic and the camera has to wake up. I'd rather carry spare batteries and leave it switched on when I'm using it.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #28
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,436
The M-D already has a*simple settings protocol. Adding an auto-off timer and settable time should not be too much of an issue.

An auto-off timer, even without adjustability (make it five minutes by default) is a reasonable convenience for those who can't remember to use the off switch. Get users in the habit of turning the camera off manually by making "wake from sleep" available only by cycling the power switch.

Getting dramatic and hysterical about the notion that you have to remember to use the off switch is funny. I remember cameras that didn't have any off switch at all (like the Rollei 35S) or an inaccessible one (like the Minolta SRT-101). With the Rollei 35S, you can't even replace the battery without taking the roll of film out of the camera first too. If you didn't want the metering battery to go dead in a day, you stick the Rollei 35S into a case to minimize the power drain by the meter, and put a lens cap and viewfinder cap on the Minolta.

What things people get upset about these days... !

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #29
mani
Registered User
 
mani is offline
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
I assume modern film Ms have meters and batteries and no auto shut off mechanism? Could you kill a M6's meter battery by neglecting to turn the camera off?

Perhaps your experience, while disappointing to you, is simply consistent with Leica wanting to create the virtual experience of using a film M camera.
I picked up my M6 after not using it for several months recently - and was annoyed to see I'd neglected to turn the dial to 'off' all those months ago. Been using it without battery problems since (over a fortnight).

PS: I don't remember ever changing the batteries in the M6 - after owning the camera for four or five years.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #30
Emile de Leon
Registered User
 
Emile de Leon is offline
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,168
Seems to me no auto shut off is keeping with the gestalt of this cam...
I would think you will just get used to turning the cam on and off..
How hard is that..
I actually like that is has less interference with the actual usage..as in..shutting off at the exact wrong moment..
but that said..auto shutoff has saved me many times..when I forget to turn it off after a long session..
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #31
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
If only Leica was able to make a digital camera which wakes up in a fraction of a second with a little press on the shutter release, like normal people, that thread wouldn't exist.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #32
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
If only Leica was able to make a digital camera which wakes up in a fraction of a second with a little press on the shutter release, like normal people, that thread wouldn't exist.
...and is constantly turning itself on and off in the bag as you walk with it.

Just flip the switch to "off," fer gosh sake. It's right there under your finger. ;-)

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #33
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
...and is constantly turning itself on and off in the bag as you walk with it.
When properly designed, it does not behave like this.

And - when you walk with it wanting to use it as soon as you see something to photograph, your camera isn't "in the bag" but over your shoulder, under your jacket or carried by hand. Lesson #1.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #34
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
When properly designed, it does not behave like this.

And - when you walk with it wanting to use it as soon as you see something to photograph, your camera isn't "in the bag". Lesson #1.
Lesson #2: I don't walk with my camera swinging around my neck like a tourist waiting for something to snap away at. I place it in a bag which I can pull it out of in a moment when I see photo opportunities. In that action, I turn it on as I pick it up to my eye. Simple, fluid, very fast ... saves the battery and protects the camera from damage as well.

If I'm actively making a series of photos, of course, the camera is in my hands and ON, not auto-powered-off, because I want it to respond now, not in a half or a tenth of a second.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #35
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 8,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
I picked up my M6 after not using it for several months recently - and was annoyed to see I'd neglected to turn the dial to 'off' all those months ago. Been using it without battery problems since (over a fortnight).
Another reason why the M5 is the best camera Leica has ever made. Meter turns on when the shutter is cocked, turns off after a shot has been made.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #36
Highway 61
Revisited
 
Highway 61's Avatar
 
Highway 61 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Lesson #2: I don't walk with my camera swinging around my neck like a tourist waiting for something to snap away at. I place it in a bag which I can pull it out of in a moment when I see photo opportunities. In that action, I turn it on as I pick it up to my eye. Simple, fluid, very fast ... saves the battery and protects the camera from damage as well.

If I'm actively making a series of photos, of course, the camera is in my hands and ON, not auto-powered-off, because I want it to respond now, not in a half or a tenth of a second.

G
You can walk with a camera not being "in the bag" without "looking like a tourist looking for something to snap away at" especially if it's a small camera. It also works with a larger camera. You can even wear a suit, a tie and nice Italian shoes for doing that. I've often met very classy people using a large format outfit.

OTOH "the bag" may be the ugliest thing if its shoulder strap is wrapped over your chest and if you're dressed like... like... well.

Tons of good photos are missed because your subject is gone once the camera is pulled off the bag even if you're extremely fast at doing this. Plus, pulling the camera off the bag in a rush not rarely leads to drop it on the pavement. Statistics speak for themselves.
Lesson #3 and #4.

As for "actively making a series of photos", my hat is off to you for being able of "actively making a series of [good] photos".

All of this is pointless, of course. What is not is what the OP wrote. Not fun to realize your batteries are dead when you'd want to rely on them after having shot less than 30 photos.
__________________

  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #37
Godfrey
somewhat colored
 
Godfrey's Avatar
 
Godfrey is offline
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Silly Valley, California, USA
Posts: 9,436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
...

All of this is pointless, of course. What is not is what the OP wrote. Not fun to realize your batteries are dead when you'd want to rely on them after having shot less than 30 photos.
LOL! Of course all of this is pointless, as is this entire thread.

Everyone, including myself, has stupidly left a camera or some other device on and come back to find its battery exhausted unexpectedly at some point or another. It's like leaving the interior light of your car turned on when you leave it parked and then not looking at it for a week or two ... The battery will be dead when you return. Should all car makers be required to include auto-off circuitry that the users cannot defeat in every vehicle they sell?

It makes no sense to blame the device or the manufacturer for the fact that there is no auto-off, and to expect that there is without reading the manual is equally foolish. If your device has no auto-off function, you learn to turn the device off when you're not using it ... that's all.

G
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #38
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Santiago, Chile
Age: 46
Posts: 20,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
Lesson #2: I don't walk with my camera swinging around my neck like a tourist waiting for something to snap away at.
I do... I'm not ashamed to be into photography.
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #39
Spanik
Registered User
 
Spanik is offline
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Not fun to realize your batteries are dead when you'd want to rely on them after having shot less than 30 photos.
That's why use cameras without batteries
  Reply With Quote

Old 06-06-2016   #40
Huss
Registered User
 
Huss is offline
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: CA
Posts: 8,830
I once returned a car because it only ran on high grade gas.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:18.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.