Old 03-14-2012   #41
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Ok, with 2 months to announcement I expect RFF to speculate with 83.6% accuracy on the spec and pricing of the new camera, the price of used M9s and M8s immediately after launch and 1 year after launch, as well as the impact of the new camera on M lens prices.

Commence
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Old 03-14-2012   #42
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what would be the benefit of a b&w only sensor (less noise)? I wouldn't never ever buy a camera that can only take b&w pictures (even the most stupid made of plastics Smena can be loaded with color film)... or am I missing something important here???
no worries. in no time someone will come out with a software to convert those b&w images to garrish colors and smooth skin tones.
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Old 03-14-2012   #43
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Some of the individual parts might be cheaper. But the overall development costs would have to be spread across a much smaller group.
We on this forum may love the idea of a B&W-only camera. But a B&W rangefinder? Talk about a niche within a niche.

That would start to sound like a special edition.
I don't remember much from calculus, but I do think there was a forumula that went something like this:
Special Edition + Leica = $$,$$$
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Old 03-14-2012   #44
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If it's B&W only, it'll be an M9 special edition. If it's called "M10," it'll be color. That's my guess!
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Old 03-14-2012   #45
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I thought they were working on some APS-c mirrorless thingy?
I believe this is true. There was a direction Leica spoke about over a year ago. APS sensor or M4/3 based camera with interchangeable lenses.

BTW - Kodak produced an all b+w dSLR quite some time ago.
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Old 03-14-2012   #46
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native iso 25-6400 selectable with a rear wheel
manual advance cock lever
no rear lcd
mini lcd on top for battery and memory space
same size of analogue M
only-dng output
=

SOLD




ok, let me dream :P
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Old 03-14-2012   #47
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Originally Posted by santino View Post
what would be the benefit of a b&w only sensor (less noise)? I wouldn't never ever buy a camera that can only take b&w pictures (even the most stupid made of plastics Smena can be loaded with color film)... or am I missing something important here???
No ugly color and interpolation. Everything has better contrast and less noise for the same sensor size.
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Old 03-14-2012   #48
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Several year's back, at a LHSA meeting, Stefan Daniel asked the audience if they would buy a B&W-only, digital M-series Leica.

All this proves is that such a camera is something Leica has thought about. Remains to be seen if they actually build it.

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Old 03-14-2012   #49
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Some of the individual parts might be cheaper. But the overall development costs would have to be spread across a much smaller group.
We on this forum may love the idea of a B&W-only camera. But a B&W rangefinder?
If Solms has decided about a B&W only sensor then it should rather be a CCD type, not CMOS, for monochrome-CCD exhibits somewhat 10dB SNR advantage over the color version. Probably they are aiming for improved hi-ISO capability over the existing models. (Cost does not change with sensor version..)

Secondly, if they are to stick to the Truesense (former Kodak) range of sensors and if the new model is to come with an FF-size sensor, then expect something with 28-29MP (CCD, naturally).

Hi-res CMOS has become rather a proprietary product; for example I think any access to the new 36MP sensor could be possible following the licencing agreement first through Nikon Inc. and then Sony, as Nikon seems to act as a joint-developer of the new technology. Similarly the access to the low-pass filterless APS-C sensor on the X-Pro1 passes through licencing from Fujifilm as the design belongs to them before the manufaturing rights by Sony.
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Old 03-14-2012   #50
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I hope it is B&W. I was planning to get a back up M9P but will hold off until the dust settles.
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Old 03-14-2012   #51
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I think you can rest well then.
There's just no way anyone is going to make a digital camera without an LCD screen. I'm doubtful about a B&W only model. But that's infinitely more likely than a digital without an LCD.
+1 on that.

No manufacturer is willing to fill a niche that small. At best, one can have the B&W sensor as an option (read: higher price)!
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Old 03-14-2012   #52
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We read this "no display" stuff just before the M9, now before the M10. When will people recognize that no one will build such a digital camera for a worldwide market of not more than 20 people, all of them members here
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Old 03-14-2012   #53
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We read this "no display" stuff just before the M9, now before the M10. When will people recognize that no one will build such a digital camera for a worldwide market of not more than 20 people, all of them members here
Indeed. The 20 people who don't want to press an "off" switch.
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Old 03-14-2012   #54
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This annoucement is for the EVIL camera, a camera that Leica need to get out well before an M10, and especially as M9 sales haven't exactly dried up.

And I think everybody is reading too much into the 10th of the month. It is a Thursday. Announce something earlier in the week and it gets superceeded over the weekend by other news, announce it on the 11th (Friday) and it doesn't get into the weekend press. Getting the news out on the Thursday means it is in the top spot for more days.

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Old 03-14-2012   #55
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This annoucement is for the EVIL camera, a camera that Leica need to get out well before an M10, and especially as M9 sales haven't exactly dried up.

And I think everybody is reading too much into the 10th of the month. It is a Thursday. Announce something earlier in the week and it gets superceeded over the weekend by other news, announce it on the 11th (Friday) and it doesn't get into the weekend press. Getting the news out on the Thursday means it is in the top spot for more days.

Steve
1. A true CL digital? Perhaps not.
2 A b/w sensor only. No way.
3. Leica would be crazy to upgrade the 9, there is still a limited supply.
4. No LCD.? No way
5. An m 10 to upgrade from the 9? Don't think so.
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Old 03-14-2012   #56
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Indeed. The 20 people who don't want to press an "off" switch.
Yeah, I've never understood this thing people have with the LCD display.
Even if you don't want access to your images as you shoot, you still need to be able to fiddle with menu items.
Like it or not, digital cameras are going to have more things to control than you can handle with a few analog dials/switches. Unless, that is, you think someone is going to build a digital camera with only shutter speed, aperture and ISO controls.
I guess you'd also need a dial for exposure compensation.
And then one for file quality - RAW, jpg, etc.
And then some way to format your disks.
And something to activate the sensor-cleaning mode.
And then something for frame rate selection.

I guess you could handle a lot of this in a souped-up frame counter screen - sort of like what you'd find on a DSLR. But that would not be the simplistic camera that film-users want in a digital body.
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Old 03-14-2012   #57
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Awesome !!
An excellent opportunity for me to live above my means (like so many governments of late).

My curiosity would be who's making the sensor now that Kodak is sort of.. well.. Kodak.. *smirk*

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Old 03-14-2012   #58
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May 10th makes sense since they were all about the 09/09/09 for the M9.

I'm dreading this because I know I'll want one so bad even though there's no way I could afford it. I use a 5D mk2 and an M9. Would love to upgrade both in the same year. Alas, I didn't pick the right lottery numbers. And none of my calls to the NY Times pleading for work have been answered.
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Old 03-14-2012   #59
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better high iso, better lcd screen.
having that, it'll be sweet.
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Old 03-14-2012   #60
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Given the cost of the new Nikon D4 and Canon 1Dx and current price of an M9 I'm going to guess that the M10 will go for $7000-9000 (body only).
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Old 03-14-2012   #61
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To each his or her own, I guess. The logic of this rumored product eludes me.

An expensive German digital camera that only shoots B&W? With no LCD screen? The staff at the rumor mill must be running double-shifts and doing tequila shooters in the staff room!

Leica might as well release a Bakelite box camera with a wire 'sports finder' and vestigial film advance knob. Shoe-horn a full-frame sensor in there and you're set! The purists will think they've died and gone to heaven!

Oh yeah -- don't forget to price it accordingly. Several thousand bucks should give it sufficient legitimacy.
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Old 03-14-2012   #62
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Yeah, I've never understood this thing people have with the LCD display.
Even if you don't want access to your images as you shoot, you still need to be able to fiddle with menu items.
It's why I suggest a mandatory ios/android app (perhaps windows/osx as well) to connect via bluetooth. That could be your screen when you need one. All you'd need is a bluetooth "connect" button in the battery compartment to hold in to connect to a device, and then an app to run to talk to the camera.

The LCD adds thickness and worsens battery life, while reducing robustness. Going LCDless would be a bold move; unlikely, I'll agree, but bold.
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Old 03-14-2012   #63
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If anyone could get away with not having an LCD, it would be Leica though...
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Old 03-14-2012   #64
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I expect another limited edition M9 or M9-P.
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Old 03-14-2012   #65
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I hear GAS prices are going up this summer.
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Old 03-14-2012   #66
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I expect another limited edition M9 or M9-P.
They wouldn't have an event for that would they?
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Old 03-14-2012   #67
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If anyone could get away with not having an LCD, it would be Leica though...
We all seemed to manage for about a century before the LCD came along ... some of that time was even with slide films like velvia.

The rewind knob doubles as a pull up Bluetooth antenna for those who must chimp
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Old 03-14-2012   #68
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Maybe interchangeable backs? It will first be released with a slim, no-LCD, B&W sensor back. But you can upgrade to a thicker, w/LCD & buttons, color sensor back. It would be like changing film!
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Old 03-14-2012   #69
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it sounds like my crazy screenless M10 project...
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Old 03-14-2012   #70
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$1000 price tag with 1080p video please (w audio)
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Old 03-14-2012   #71
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I live in "hope" that the M10 will be the same thickness as a classic film M.
That always put me off the M8, 8.2 and 9...

It will be expensive but I'm OK with that. I just want it slim and fit...
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Old 03-14-2012   #72
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If it is sans lcd and with no way of displaying a histogram, then it pretty well means shooting raw all the time otherwise people will be blowing highlights pretty often or underexposing to stay safe. imo

if it's for aesthetics, well that's pretty lame
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Old 03-14-2012   #73
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Cannot fathom why anyone would want a digital camera without an LCD screen.
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Old 03-14-2012   #74
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$1000 price tag with 1080p video please (w audio)
Yeah, and a body carved from unicorn horn!
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Old 03-14-2012   #75
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Cannot fathom why anyone would want a digital camera without an LCD screen.
A bare camera is more comfortable to hold plus it would force the designer to use dials (like a Leica M ISO dial) instead of buttons that point you to menus on a screen. Dials are faster and more intuitive to use.

Anyway it all depends how much you use the LCD, if you do use it it's invaluable.
But if you dont use it you'd gladly swap if for anything, like a bit more battery life.
Or a lolipop
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Old 03-14-2012   #76
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A digital M with no LCD and just B&W? Sounds great.

We really need one of those emoticons that eats popcorn.
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Old 03-14-2012   #77
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Seems that the stewardship of the RF along with proper manual focusing is in the hands of Leica, by default perhaps.
The X1 was a copy of existing design, an AF mess, just to get them in the game.
Leica needs to do what they do best. There's too much competition along with amazing image quality in the mirrorless market for them to just offer another variant of the breed.
A very basic MF fixed lens B&W camera would be quite unique. Call it the X2 or whatever, just don't design another, 'not really a RF' camera.
A small monochrome LCD displaying basic camera data along with a histogram would suffice.
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Old 03-14-2012   #78
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In my opinion, the new Leica 'M10' should have the following features:

o same body size as the non-digital Leica M-series
o black & white shooting ability
o cloth shutter
o no pesky LCD
o incredible battery life

Wait a second! They already DID make this! It's called a Leica M6!
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Old 03-14-2012   #79
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I heard they will offer a separate cordless incident light meter, that can double into an LCD display for image review. Also everybody knows that Leica M users do not chimp.
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Old 03-14-2012   #80
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lol 4 pages already, almost all fantasizing about monochrome sensor

my wishes: body with image stabilizer and dust removal, latest wizz-bang dynamic range and high ISO sensor, live view, video and good LCD. battery that lasts as long as SLR's. slim like film M-line. thank you Leica
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