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View Poll Results: Gear choice
Update to used M10, keep M4-2. Use only J-3 and J-12. 12 26.09%
Update to new M-E 240, keep M4-2, Summarit-M 35 2.5 7 15.22%
Get Nokton 35 1.4 II for M-E 220, keep M4-2, Summarit-M 35 2.5. 8 17.39%
Keep M-E 220, get used Monochrome, use only J-3 and J-12. 4 8.70%
Something else. 15 32.61%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-04-2020   #121
Ko.Fe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul View Post
solid insight, well expressed, and true for me too.
Sorry, but... those M8/9 high ISO talks...

It depends how big is your and their fear dictated by misunderstand technicalities. I'm not in the group of yours, who are chicken out at ISO 1600, just because they don't understand the exposure capabilities of M8/9 sensors.

Shooting with technical confidence, M-E ISO2500:







But if all of you are poster size only printers, my apologies, then. Just not sure how it is framing with "amateur" acknowledge in your quote. I'm the amateur and I have zero problems with M8/9 ISO 2500 prints.
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Old 01-06-2020   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post

Shooting with technical confidence, M-E ISO2500: (...)
Much digital noise aside, I see nothing in these two pics which tells they couldn't have been taken at ISO 400 with no problem.

At the end of the day I don't get what this thread is all about I'm afraid.
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Old 01-06-2020   #123
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Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
At the end of the day I don't get what this thread is all about I'm afraid.
It is about helping Ko Fe rationalize the purchase of an M10.
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Old 01-06-2020   #124
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Originally Posted by ptpdprinter View Post
It is about helping Ko Fe rationalize the purchase of an M10.
I am within the 36.36% majority of voters who weren't of any rationalizing help - that explains.
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Old 01-06-2020   #125
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Originally Posted by Highway 61 View Post
Much digital noise aside, I see nothing in these two pics which tells they couldn't have been taken at ISO 400 with no problem.

At the end of the day I don't get what this thread is all about I'm afraid.
Thank you for checking!

ISO400 would be 1/8 with Summarit-M 35 f2.5 maximum in available when light. I get your vision with the train shot, 1/8 nothing moving, sure thing, but I can't say "hey, stand still" to sheep

I want low light Leica M camera with 1/125 or at least 1/60 and at least f2.8. This is something like ISO6400. M240 sensor is on the edge, but I don't know how good it is. If M240 ISO6400 just as "bad" as M9 ISO2500, I will take it. I'm not as noise sensitive as you , only then it starts banging.
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Old 01-06-2020   #126
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I don’t go above 3200 on my M262 for color. Even that’s pushing it (for some people; for me it’s situational). For B&W, 6400 is fine. I like the look of the “grain” at that ISO.
I would think for your style, it would work fine.
M10 gives you an extra stop, but a much lighter wallet.
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Old 01-06-2020   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Thank you for checking!

ISO400 would be 1/8 with Summarit-M 35 f2.5 maximum in available when light. I get your vision with the train shot, 1/8 nothing moving, sure thing, but I can't say "hey, stand still" to sheep

I want low light Leica M camera with 1/125 or at least 1/60 and at least f2.8. This is something like ISO6400. M240 sensor is on the edge, but I don't know how good it is. If M240 ISO6400 just as "bad" as M9 ISO2500, I will take it. I'm not as noise sensitive as you , only then it starts banging.
How do you figure those numbers? The sheep are ISO 2500, 1/125 and f 3.5. (Assuming the M9 calculated that correctly.) If you shoot at 1/30 of a second wide open at f2.5 ISO 320 is an equivalent exposure. At f3.5 you would be at ISO 640.

The M240 has slightly more dynamic range at ISO6400 vs the M9 at 2500. Slightly less read noise too.

Couple of boring shots at higher ISO.
M240, ISO3200, f4, 1/250


M240, ISO6400, f3.4 (think it was really 2.8), 1/30


Both DNGs processed by DXO Prime NR. If you want me to process a M9 high iso file in Prime NR send me one.

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Old 01-06-2020   #128
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Looks good enough for me. Usable for small prints at least.
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Old 01-06-2020   #129
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This is an interesting thread. I have a street photographer buddy who shoots with a 28mm at f/8 with film pushed to 800 to 1600 so he can shoot at 1/500 and faster when the light is good (not harsh). He likes the grain but digital is better for that. I myself is stuck with film but if I decide to make the jump the Q2 is the logical choice for street.
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Old 01-06-2020   #130
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I could squeeze in Q-P. It is really f8 for manual focus camera, due to defect design of manual focus. The failure comparing to manual focus of OM. Zuiko lenses for m43.
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Old 01-06-2020   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
I could squeeze in Q-P. It is really f8 for manual focus camera, due to defect design of manual focus. The failure comparing to manual focus of OM. Zuiko lenses for m43.
What is this defect? Sounds interesting.

Two years ago in Varanasi I met this photographer who happened to have a really excellent body of work I later found online. Anyway he was shooting with this beat up Q he said Leica had loaned him for testing. The thing was really used nearly as beaten up as the Winogrand M4. The way he talked about it sound like he was holding up a loaf of Wonderbread. I was happily shooting with a Rollei 3.5F but that Q sounded very good. I have been thinking about it ever since.
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Old 01-07-2020   #132
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Quote:
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What is this defect? Sounds interesting.

Two years ago in Varanasi I met this photographer who happened to have a really excellent body of work I later found online. Anyway he was shooting with this beat up Q he said Leica had loaned him for testing. The thing was really used nearly as beaten up as the Winogrand M4. The way he talked about it sound like he was holding up a loaf of Wonderbread. I was happily shooting with a Rollei 3.5F but that Q sounded very good. I have been thinking about it ever since.
Just spend some time to look at Q focus scale, easy to find online and compare it to Olympus micro four thirds manual focus scale. Also available on line.
I will feel as looser if I would pay thousands for camera, lens where manual focus scale is nothing but f8 close to infinity switch with rest of the focus scale been useless.
I don’t need another AF only camera.
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Old 01-09-2020   #133
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Younger colleague has purchased mint, used 6D with 30 days warranty for 500 USD. As travel camera. I told him about mirrorless Sony and else. Nope.

This ISO 2500


And this is ISO....

25600.

Camera isn't as big as our family 5D MKII. Is this something 37% have voted for?
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Old 01-09-2020   #134
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I think the 6d is one of the best deals on the market.
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Old 01-15-2020   #135
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Interesting twist. One person lost m10, damages behind recovery. Short on money or else he googled m9 vs m10.
Google did it’s thing and came with this:
https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/ho...s-cmos-sensors SS was trying to mock m9, at least in the title, but it is in the opposite. I agree with person who posted this link and who went with M9 as better replacement for damaged M10.
I’m all for high iso Leica M, but not for the price of lower IQ at lower ISO.
I have read several times about going from m10 back to M9, but today it became visual for me.
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Old 01-18-2020   #136
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Hey Ko I think your solution has just arrived.
https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/...m10-monochrom/

It will probably be a while before they are readily available and the price is certainly high but it really looks interesting. The M 246 couldn't pull me away from my original MM but this just might.
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Old 01-18-2020   #137
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Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
Hey Ko I think your solution has just arrived.
https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/...m10-monochrom/

It will probably be a while before they are readily available and the price is certainly high but it really looks interesting. The M 246 couldn't pull me away from my original MM but this just might.

Thank you for this article. True world observations in where. I was personally attacked and bullied at LUF for criticizing Leica's "unmatched" statement regarding ISO 100 000.
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Old 01-18-2020   #138
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Originally Posted by Ko.Fe. View Post
Thank you for this article. True world observations in where. I was personally attacked and bullied at LUF for criticizing Leica's "unmatched" statement regarding ISO 100 000.
I think like all digital cameras the highest ISO is usually to be avoided, I know my original MM is good at 6400 and I shoot at 1600-6400 on the streets a lot for fast shutter speeds and a large DoF. The new M 10 Mono with the sensor designed for B&W only and higher ISO will be something I will probably at some point in the future will embrace but the biggest advantage for me is it functions like an M 10. Really responsive and very quite. Both are seen by me as big advantages of the original MM which I didn't see with the M 246. I have an M 262 (stripped down M 240) and I also have a couple of M 10s.

In that article the author states that 100,000 is not realistic. But 25,000 is still good and 50,000 is usable.
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Old 01-18-2020   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
I think like all digital cameras the highest ISO is usually to be avoided, I know my original MM is good at 6400 and I shoot at 1600-6400 on the streets a lot for fast shutter speeds and a large DoF. The new M 10 Mono with the sensor designed for B&W only and higher ISO will be something I will probably at some point in the future will embrace but the biggest advantage for me is it functions like an M 10. Really responsive and very quiet. Both are seen by me as big advantages of the original MM which I didn't see with the M 246. I have an M 262 (stripped down M 240) and I also have a couple of M 10s.

In that article the author states that 100,000 is not realistic. But 25,000 is still good and 50,000 is usable.
25000 of clean, issues free BW is enough, IMO.

I was at co-worker place party last evening and switched his new to him Canon 6D to 10 000 and BW, we looked at the images then on huge screen and it was OK.
Canon RP is under 1K USD now. Nowhere near to any Monochrome, but somehow I like Canon BW as well.

From our family Canon 500D. In camera JPEG1, ISO 6400.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #140
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Link to DPR ISO 25000 from Q, M10 and Canon 6D, Nikon DF.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/imag...60151864203795
DF and 6D seems to be more on still acceptable side.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #141
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Before buying the M10 I was tempted by the DF but at the end I prefered the simplicity of the M10, which is still my suggestion for the initial questIon
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #142
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When you want an M Robert, only an M will do...
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #143
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I could squeeze in used 6D by selling 5D MKII and adding cash I already have from previous sale. This will solve high ISO need I have for some years now, most importantly for family pictures. I used 5D with 50 1.2 and then 5D MKII with slower zooms, but clean ISO 12800 and slightly mushy 25000 for bw will eliminate use of the flash.

I still haven't decided about M-E 220 I have. Maybe will follow advice from few years ago and get beater M240 for everyday with/on me camera. My days of lugging around 5D on the streets as everyday camera are over.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #144
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I have used the 5diii, m9, and m240 and I would rather have the 240 with me any day. It's not the ISO (I don't really care) but the shutter for the m240 over the m9 to me. I shoot them about the same anyway (base ISO for most situations, or boost it all the way and who cares?)

As for the 5d3, I cannot imagine dragging it around with me for anything but an event or wildlife photography. It's too much for an everyday camera at this point in my life.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #145
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After using of 5D and Bessa L, m9 shutter doesn’t bug me at all
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #146
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The mk3 added the “silent shutter”—it isn’t really silent, but it’s much quieter.

The loud recock in the m9 always annoyed me. It didn’t keep me from using it, and I’m not a candid photographer so that wasn’t it, I just didn’t like it.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airfrogusmc View Post
Hey Ko I think your solution has just arrived.
https://www.ultrasomething.com/2020/...m10-monochrom/

It will probably be a while before they are readily available and the price is certainly high but it really looks interesting. The M 246 couldn't pull me away from my original MM but this just might.

Why here is so few, not just on this forum, but globally of those who could handle Monochrome files, exposures?
I could see in your book how it must be done, I have seen maybe couple of more Monochrome users on-line who are capable.
But the rest...
M10M already been screwed :
https://youtu.be/Q65Q5sgJvh8?t=657
https://youtu.be/XU4rjFXfupU?t=486

Is Monochrome extremely difficult camera to have correct exposures, good looking images?
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