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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #41
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This is really cool—I would love a screenless camera that instantly zaps photos to my phone. And the design is appealing—different but not ugly. Hope it comes to fruition.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #42
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I think it looks pretty nice actually. I wouldn`t even bother with the cell phone. Of course, the key to this camera is price vs. quality as always.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #43
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Folks,

this thread is about an important new French camera,
not French cars.

Please stay on topic.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #44
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Coincidence? - Hippolyte Pixii (1808-1835): "An instrument maker from Paris, France. In 1832 he built an early form of alternating current electrical generator." Wikipedia.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
To say the least, it looks to be a well designed and constructed camera. More sophisticated than quite a few Kickstarter projects I've seen.

But just the fact it has the M mount means it could be a bit pricey. If they can keep it within $1,000 it might sell like hotcakes.

PF
I think equipping the optical rangefinder alone would make it go over the $1000 price tag.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #46
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I went through all of the site and couldn't find the two most important specs for a prospective buyer, sensor size and megapixel count. Makes me a little suspicious.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthfeeble View Post
I went through all of the site and couldn't find the two most important specs for a prospective buyer, sensor size and megapixel count. Makes me a little suspicious.
The commentators on PetaPixel have been doing some detective work, and came up with a couple of candidates, one being M4/3, the other APS-C. Take into consideration you are putting the images directly on your phone over WiFi or Bluetooth, the pixel size/pitch is 5.5um, and the internal memory is a minimum of 8gb (32gb optional), I don't believe it's going to be a very large sensor. RAW output is quite doubtful too.

PF
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #48
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Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers View Post
Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?
That's possible but you'd have to factor that against the design time, of essentially reinventing the wheel.

In any case, no way will this come in at under $1000. You simply can't expect a ground-up, new camera design, for a niche market, at that price point. What was the Epson launch price? $2k? We'll be lucky to get that.

Similarly, the inventors must surely know a m4/3 sensor machine will be dead in the market.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #50
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If the sensor is excellent from 100-800 then I would buy it, because I don't shoot anything on film in the Leica world beyond 400 ISO.
This is SO interesting - I hope they have success!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #51
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$10 says this is just another konost.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #52
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M4/3 is unlikely the sensor size in combination with an m mount... imagine the lack of wide angle lenses then... a 15 would become a 30 and so on.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #53
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Hmmm...it has frame lines for 28/35 and 40/50mm; this suggests full-frame to me - apsc crop factor is 1.5x and m3/4 is 2x - not many M-mount lenses around to fit the frame lines with these ratios....
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #54
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I hope this happens.

No need to read into the vaporware specs before the product materializes, though.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
this thread is about an important new French camera,
not French cars.
Just a reminder: the French were -- and they certainly are -- absolutely prepared to build very capable cameras, e.g. here a pristine example of a Foca Universel RC:

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farlymac View Post
The commentators on PetaPixel have been doing some detective work, and came up with a couple of candidates, one being M4/3, the other APS-C. Take into consideration you are putting the images directly on your phone over WiFi or Bluetooth, the pixel size/pitch is 5.5um, and the internal memory is a minimum of 8gb (32gb optional), I don't believe it's going to be a very large sensor. RAW output is quite doubtful too.

PF
I don't think sensor surface area is limited by internal storage capacity or data transfer rates.

The M10 raw file size is 25-30 MB. 30 MB is only 0.03 GB. 8 GB of internal memory is not a limitation for still photography. The 20 megapixel M4/3 Panasonic DC-G9 Lumix raw file size is about 24 MB.

Many people will only use JPEGs because that's what they use with their smart phone cameras. In this case Bluetooth transfer is practical. The Leica M10 offers 24MP, 12MP, or 6MP JPEGs. A 6MP JPEG would suffice for image review or web-based image sharing. Large JPEGs (or raw) could be saved simultaneously in-camera and eventually downloaded to a computer.

WiFi and, or Bluetooth transfer speeds between devices depends on many variables. There are several different Bluetooth specifications as well. A slow BT transfer rate would be ~ 1/4 MB per second. BT V3 can be ~ 10 times faster. Often the camera-to-phone distance will be short. The transfer can begin immediately after the shutter closes. I think lossless compressed DNG raw file transfer is practical. However BT transfer may only be practical if both devices support BT V3 or V4.

The Panasonic DC-G9 Lumix offers up BT V 4.2 and 5 GHz WiFi.

A seperate issue is the file-transfer power drain for camera and phone could be an issue. Also WiFi network management is a complication. When the phone-to-camera transfer is done as part of a home network, the transfer is indirect. In some cases a slow home network would be a problem. Direct transfer means the phone would no longer be part of the home WiFi network.

All these issues would be moot if the camera had a USB 4 (or better yet a USB-C) port. Then raw files transfer to a computer would be fast.

People could just use JPEG transfer for image review or even selection and transfer the raw files via USB at a later time.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #57
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I know someone involved with the Pixii project.

It might turn out better than most are expecting.

Stephen
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CameraQuest View Post
I know someone involved with the Pixii project.

It might turn out better than most are expecting.

Stephen
It might? It certainly will, dear Stephen!
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
People could just use JPEG transfer for image review or even selection and transfer the raw files via USB at a later time.
Agree with what you are saying but if you look into the website more it does not appear as if the camera will do JPEGs at all. It sounds like they saving RAW only and are offloading all additional processing to their app or a computer.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #60
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So if you don't own a cell phone or so called "smartphone".. can you still use this camera?
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #61
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Follow PixiiCamera on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/pixiicamera/

why? Pixii's interaction with the public
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Pillers View Post
Just curious... does the link between lens helicoid and rangefinder have to be mechanical? Could the lens helicoid push on some sort of electrical contact that operates some sort of computer circuit? And if so, could this save money?
Yeah, did they reinvent the mechanical RF assembly?
It seems prone to misalignment and presumably, labor intensive to build. At some point a fly by wire RF could make sense. Rather helicoid on cam think helicoid on digital potentiometer. A small DC motor would have to drive the thing. Maybe even some sort of self calibration feature.
Or perhaps a new mechanical design. I don't think it will be like the one in a leica, in any case.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #63
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I notice the camera photos that you can see the lens in is the CV 21mm F4. They say the widest frame line is 28mm. Maybe this is an APSC camera? Just a guess.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I notice the camera photos that you can see the lens in is the CV 21mm F4. They say the widest frame line is 28mm. Maybe this is an APSC camera? Just a guess.
Ah so that would be a 28 equivalent frame line?
Too bad if it's APS-C. I don't mind the smaller sensor per se, but if there are no lenses made for it, wider M-mount lenses are unnecessarily big, slow and expensive.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xayraa33 View Post
So if you don't own a cell phone or so called "smartphone".. can you still use this camera?
The press release says it can be used stand alone.

Shawn
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
The press release says it can be used stand alone.

Shawn
That is good to hear.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougFord View Post
Yeah, did they reinvent the mechanical RF assembly?
It seems prone to misalignment and presumably, labor intensive to build. At some point a fly by wire RF could make sense. Rather helicoid on cam think helicoid on digital potentiometer. A small DC motor would have to drive the thing. Maybe even some sort of self calibration feature.
Or perhaps a new mechanical design. I don't think it will be like the one in a leica, in any case.
I might be reading too much into it but the 'A New Original Rangefinder' there is an image showing what looks to be a digital focus scale that ranges from 0.7 to infinity. A position sensor on the rangefinder mechanism would allow that to be incorporated into the camera. Or just a position sensor and then a stepper motor could handle moving the optics for the second image position.

Shawn
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn View Post
I might be reading too much into it but the 'A New Original Rangefinder' there is an image showing what looks to be a digital focus scale that ranges from 0.7 to infinity. A position sensor on the rangefinder mechanism would allow that to be incorporated into the camera. Or just a position sensor and then a stepper motor could handle moving the optics for the second image position.

Shawn
That would be neat, if it works without noticeable lag, and probably cheaper to build than a mechanical RF.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retinax View Post
That would be neat, if it works without noticeable lag, and probably cheaper to build than a mechanical RF.
The no noticeable lag would be important. If they did have something like this it would only take software to allow a user to tweak the RF for different lenses. That could be very slick.

Leica has some form of a movement sensor in their rangefinder assembly. It is how the live view cameras can do automatic MF assist (zoom) when the user adjusts focus.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #70
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Anybody catch that it uses a Sony battery (NP-FW50) or that the OVF looks like it was photochopped from a CV finder (the same kind that Sony sells)? Would not be completely surprising if this had some Sony A7 DNA.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante_Stella View Post
Anybody catch that it uses a Sony battery (NP-FW50) or that the OVF looks like it was photochopped from a CV finder (the same kind that Sony sells)? Would not be completely surprising if this had some Sony A7 DNA.

Dante
I hope you're right! getting it down to MFT or APS-C will make the camera difficult/impossible to work with "wide&fast" (assiming the 35mm minimum f length) lenses.

Talking about price... if it remains around a second hand M8 price, they'll sell it....if this cross the M9 second hand tag, it'll turn out a disaster.

Also, for god's sake, sell it directly. A kickstarter or similar for this price levels is a lottery ticket.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #72
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More info...

https://photorumors.com/2018/10/22/a...leica-m-mount/

Half the price of an M... but most likely not FF.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #73
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Looks like the design is still a little fluid. Backpanel is different between the various pictures on that site.

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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
More info...

https://photorumors.com/2018/10/22/a...leica-m-mount/

Half the price of an M... but most likely not FF.

So we're in the 3000€ land, for an APS-C.....
And we'll need, for example a 28/35mm 1.4-2.8 to have a decent 40/50mm. Explained : We'll have to spend >3k€ to save 3k€ in the camera, and end with a "non-Leica" camera. Probably I'm missing the point but...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #75
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So we're in the 3000€ land, for an APS-C.....
And we'll need, for example a 28/35mm 1.4-2.8 to have a decent 40/50mm. Explained : We'll have to spend >3k€ to save 3k€ in the camera, and end with a "non-Leica" camera. Probably I'm missing the point but...
If it's APS-H, like the M8, that's not terrible. APS-C would be a disappointment
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #76
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Originally Posted by shawn View Post
Agree with what you are saying but if you look into the website more it does not appear as if the camera will do JPEGs at all. It sounds like they saving RAW only and are offloading all additional processing to their app or a computer.

Shawn
That makes sense. Why spend time and money building in-camera demoasaicking? iOS 12 already supports raw import from SDHC cards (with a dongle). I was wondering if PIXII would use DNG. There are iOS apps (other than Adobe's) that process DNG files. Most won't care as long as they can share rendered JPEGs as easily as they now share in-phone camera photos.

No doubt Adobe and non-Adobe Android apps handle DNG as well.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #77
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If it's APS-H, like the M8, that's not terrible. APS-C would be a disappointment
Who makes a cheap apsc h sensor these days? I would imagine a last generation FF sensor would be cheaper than some one off apsc h.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #78
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Who makes a cheap apsc h sensor these days? I would imagine a last generation FF sensor would be cheaper than some one off apsc h.
I'm sure I read Canon versions are available, but am wishlisting rather than predicting.

[edit]: Here, for instance.
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #79
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$795 and A7S sensor...I'm in..lol..
1/2 the Leica price..well...
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Old 3 Weeks Ago   #80
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After reading the information about this camera, it seems like the primary benefit is to have your photos automatically transferred to your phone or other devise. I currently have a Fuji x camera that can have M mount lenses adapted to it and can transfer photos via Bluetooth to my iPhone and iPad. I'm sure a lot of other cameras have a similar features. It works OK, but it's often a pain to get the two to communicate via Bluetooth. A faster and more reliable process is to use a sd to lighting adapter for transferring photos.

If this camera transfers images seamlessly, it might be kind of interesting, but I'd expect that it will use Bluetooth connectivity that will not stay connected all the time. I certainly wouldn't pay several thousand dollars for what I would consider a fairly minor convenience when I could, say, buy a Fuji x-t3 for half as much and just transfer images, probably more reliably, via a $30 adapter.
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