Nippon Kogaku 35mm f1.8 vs Summaron 35mm f2.8
Old 1 Week Ago   #1
hrryxgg
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Nippon Kogaku 35mm f1.8 vs Summaron 35mm f2.8

hey folks:

i have the kogaku with leica mount but am considering an original summaron 2.8 35mm (1958~).

does anyone have both? i know both are rare.

but curious what the differences are or would be?

i use an m6.

thanks in advance...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #2
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Is the Nikon a 35/2.5?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #3
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I have Summaron 35 2.8 and I love it so much. I have post some pictures in another thread.
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/for...d.php?t=164257


I also have Nikkor 35mm f1.8 in Leica screw mount if this is the one you mentioned.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #4
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yes that is the one. the 35mm/1.8

can you telll me which you prefer, the summaron or the kogaku?

really curious. thanks!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #5
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They have different aperture and different characters. So I don’t know how I can compare them. But I can say that the Summaron is quite reliable and I tend to use it a lot after I got my first Summaron in last month. Nikkor 35 1.8 ltm is more like a collectiable lens to me. They are rare and expensive. I will post some pictures here when I back home.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #6
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the summaron i am
looking at is the late 1950s first batch. also pretty rare and expensive. i think.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #7
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I have the Nikkor 35 1.8 S mount for my Nikon SP. I was getting ready to sell my SP and finished off a roll that I had taken with the 35 1.8. Once I saw the pictures I changed my mind and decided to instead send the SP to Gus Lazzari who had it for 4 months and did a full overhaul. It came back looking brand new and everything moving so smoothly you would swear it was a Leica.

Basically that 35 1.8 made me change my mind. It is one of the most phenomenal lenses I have ever owned. The Nikkor glass just has a character that is completely unique. I absolutely love it.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hrryxgg View Post
the summaron I am
looking at is the late 1950s first batch. Also pretty rare and expensive. i think.
Yeah relatively rare I think? Leica made 4,000 Summaron include varies versions (M, LTM, goggles) in 1958 which is its first production year. In total Leica produced 52,400 Summaron in ten years. But Nikkor 35mm f1.8 LTM only been made approximately 1500 of the Leica mount in total. I also got a very late serial Summaron #23099xx which I believe it falls into the last production year 1968.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #9
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Here are some film results from W-Nikkor 35mm f1.8 + Nikon SP. I got both versions but I only have the pictures taken by the S-mount version.


W-Nikkor 35mm f1.8 with Nikon SP test by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

HongKong - 2014 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr
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Old 1 Week Ago   #10
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Here are the photos taken by Leica Summaron-M 35mm f/2.8 + Leica M10



FIFA World Cup Final. by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

FIFA World Cup Final. taken with Leica M10 + Leica Summaron-M 35mm f/2.8 Version 1 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Leica Summaron-M 35mm f/2.8 Version 1 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr

Leica Summaron-M 35mm f/2.8 Version 1 by Kevin-Xu, on Flickr
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Old 1 Week Ago   #11
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Hrryxgg, both those lenses are really excellent. I have a few 35's, including these two. The Summaron was Leica's best 35 for a long time. There is a famous test by the LHSA I think that claims the Summaron was sharper than the Summicron V1.
Kevin's pictures above using the Nikkor show how great that lens is, and there are several threads on RFF displaying the virtues of that lens, in S and LTM versions.
Personally I think the Nikkor 35/1.8 is one of the greatest 35 lenses ever made. It is magical in its rendering as well as technically brilliant. I have early as well as late LTM copies. I can't see any difference in their optical quality, although some people say there is. Jonmanjiro on this forum is very familiar with this lens. Look for his posts.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #12
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well, thank you, seems i have a good one!

i suppose getting the early summaron would be a redundancy or waste of resources given what i have and that it has wider range of f stops?

thanks!
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Old 1 Week Ago   #13
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I have the Nikon 35/1.8 LTM, and I very much like using it with my M9.







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Old 1 Week Ago   #14
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I own a Summicron V1 35/2, and I never thought of getting a Summaron instead. I also have the modern Zeiss 35/2 ZM, plus a Canon 35/2 35/2.8 35/1.5 35/1.8 ltm. Different 35mm lenses for different flavors and rendition.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pyeh View Post
There is a famous test by the LHSA I think that claims the Summaron was sharper than the Summicron V1.
That report is linked in this thread:

https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=164257

I once did a side-by-side of the 35/2 v1 vs the Nikkor 35/1.8 LTM, this was maybe 9 or 10 years ago so I'm not sure I still have the images. Not unexpectedly, the differences between the two were splitting gnat's hairs. And the Summaron is every bit as good as the 35/1 v1 8 element, as shown in the test above.

I've had 5 or 6 copies of the Nikkor pass through over the years, a few of them appear in this thread:

https://rangefinderforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=162547
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Old 1 Week Ago   #16
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At aperture 2.0, the Summicron beats the Summaron. I can prove it
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Old 1 Week Ago   #17
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And accordingly, Nikkor beats it at 1.8
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Old 1 Week Ago   #18
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An old lens with max aperture 1.8 may in fact be a true 2.0 lens. I have both anyways.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raid View Post
An old lens with max aperture 1.8 may in fact be a true 2.0 lens.
Following that line of logic, I suppose an old lens with max aperture of f2 may in fact be a true f2.2 lens

To answer the OP's, question, both the W-Nikkor 35/1.8 and Summaron 35/2.8 are superb lenses. I did a side by side comparison a few months ago and found performance to be very similar, with the Summaron probably having a little more even sharpness over the frame and into the corners. But you lose a whole stop and a third.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #20
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Yes, I will believe such a conclusion. Both lenses are superb lenses.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛
Here are some film results from W-Nikkor 35mm f1.8 + Nikon SP. I got both versions but I only have the pictures taken by the S-mount version.
Just out of curiosity... what film was used for the Nikon SP shots?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #22
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEVIN-XU 愛
Here are some film results from W-Nikkor 35mm f1.8 + Nikon SP. I got both versions but I only have the pictures taken by the S-mount version.
Just out of curiosity... what film was used for the Nikon SP shots?
I am sorry that I cannot give you a certain answer since those photos were taken 4 years ago. And I don’t have the original negative film with me now. But I can tell you that they are most likely Fujifilm X-tra 400 or Kodak Ektar 100.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #23
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I suspect that if its a decision of whether to replace the Nikkor 35/1.8 with a Summaron 35/2.8 because it represents a step up in performance, that would not be indicated.

However, if someone was interested in owning a selection of nice 35 lenses, just for the fun and pleasure of it, I think it would be great to have both the Nikkor and the Summaron.

I only have the Summaron, and it is a goggled version from 1958. I notice that my copy doesn't quite focus to infinity on any of my M-mount bodies, and I find the whole goggle thing to be a bit lacking in ergonomics. But, I have managed to use the lens (especially at close-ish distances) with very nice results. Very nice indeed. It makes me want a non-goggled copy so I always keep my eye out for the opportunity to get one.

I have only held a Nikkor 35/1.8 LTM once. So...I can't comment about anything further than the quite wonderful tactile quality of the lens on its own . However, the images in this thread speak clearly about its performance. So, it looks like we have choices for wonderful 35mm lenses in the Leica mount world. So thankful for that
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Old 1 Week Ago   #24
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. . . However, if someone was interested in owning a selection of nice 35 lenses, just for the fun and pleasure of it, I think it would be great to have both the Nikkor and the Summaron.. . .
Possibly. But mostly I own lenses only to use them.

Yes, I use some of my "funnies" for particular effects: for example, the 50/1.2 Canon.

On the other hand, I have found that piddling about changing (for example) a 35/2 Summicron for a 35/1.4 Summilux, or a 50/1.5 C-Sonnar for a 50/1.5 Nokton, is a lot less important than trying to take good pictures with lenses you like.

Cheers,

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Old 1 Week Ago   #25
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Thank you Roger.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #26
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I like a good piddle.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #27
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Piddle or whatever. I too try to just make photographs. But, I'll admit that I change the lens from time to time. I also make a point to change the lens when it is the tool that helps me make the photograph I want. I don't have a Canon 50/1.2 (at least not in Leica mount, only in FD). But recently I have been changing the lens from the 35 or 50 I usually have on the camera to the Jupiter-3 50/1.5 to get the unique quality of that lens. Unfortunately, the last several times I have used the J-3, the images have been disappointing. Partly the fault of the photographer, partly the lens.

But, regarding the Summaron 35/2.8. Mine is goggled and it rarely lives on my camera for long because of ergonomics. My Biogon 35/2 or Summicron 50/2 spends a lot of time on the body. My CV 35/1.4 is on the body now, and will likely hang out for a while. I couldn't say what would happen if I also had a W-Nikkor 35/1.8.....that lens might live on the camera for a period of time as well. That's the kind of thing that gets sorted out when a person has a few lenses just for the fun and pleasure of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
Possibly. But mostly I own lenses only to use them.

Yes, I use some of my "funnies" for particular effects: for example, the 50/1.2 Canon.

On the other hand, I have found that piddling about changing (for example) a 35/2 Summicron for a 35/1.4 Summilux, or a 50/1.5 C-Sonnar for a 50/1.5 Nokton, is a lot less important than trying to take good pictures with lenses you like.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #28
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Happy to read that Raid enjoys the Nikkor 35mm 1.8 and Pyeh enjoys the Summaron 35mm 2.8 I sent them!

Have fun shooting those lenses, fellows
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Old 1 Week Ago   #29
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Johan, yes! It's terrific. So much so that I got a second one.
Piddling about, piddling about...
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Old 1 Week Ago   #30
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I had both lenses at the same time. My LTM 35/1.8 Nikkor has about a half stop yellow filter built in, and I like the wonderful contrast. At 1.8 there is a glow (veiling flair) that goes away at F2.0.

Pretty much F1.8 gets me some dreamyness from a wide. The built in yellow filter is due to the radioactive glass and the nuclear hardening that has resulted from age that mildly tinted the glass. With metering and comparing with a 35 Cron ASPH the offset in exposure is half a stop on a M6.

In the 35 Summaron rendered less contrast and did not have the glow of F1.8. Also it seems my Monochrome loves the Nikkor.

The Summaron has that classic look though. Both lenses are single coated.

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Old 1 Week Ago   #31
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Quote:
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I had both lenses at the same time. My LTM 35/1.8 Nikkor has about a half stop yellow filter built in, and I like the wonderful contrast. At 1.8 there is a glow (veiling flair) that goes away at F2.0.

Pretty much F1.8 gets me some dreamyness from a wide. The built in yellow filter is due to the radioactive glass and the nuclear hardening that has resulted from age that mildly tinted the glass. With metering and comparing with a 35 Cron ASPH the offset in exposure is half a stop on a M6.

In the 35 Summaron rendered less contrast and did not have the glow of F1.8. Also it seems my Monochrome loves the Nikkor.

The Summaron has that classic look though. Both lenses are single coated.

Cal
Can you compare a Summaron 2.8 with a Elmar 3.5 single coat in terms of contrast etc?
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Old 1 Week Ago   #32
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Happy to read that Raid enjoys the Nikkor 35mm 1.8 and Pyeh enjoys the Summaron 35mm 2.8 I sent them!

Have fun shooting those lenses, fellows
Johan that Nikkor came from me if my memory still works.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #33
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Piddle or whatever. I too try to just make photographs. But, I'll admit that I change the lens from time to time. . . .
Sure. So do we all. There are without doubt subjects/ ideas that are best served by one lens over another, cf. the Canon link.

All I'm suggesting is that you need REALLY big differences between lenses in order to make it worth swapping lenses frequently. Otherwise, it strikes me as a much better idea to try to get the best possible results from a relatively limited range of lenses.

Forever changing lenses, just because you can, is a very different trap from the "one camera, one lens" idea but it is just as much a trap and can stand in the way of good pictures every bit as much. And of course a lot depends on your personality and style.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #34
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Quote:
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All I'm suggesting is that you need REALLY big differences between lenses in order to make it worth swapping lenses frequently. Otherwise, it strikes me as a much better idea to try to get the best possible results from a relatively limited range of lenses.

Forever changing lenses, just because you can, is a very different trap from the "one camera, one lens" idea but it is just as much a trap and can stand in the way of good pictures every bit as much. And of course a lot depends on your personality and style.

Cheers,

R.
Completely agree with this sentiment.

I think that's why certain lenses just tend to stay on the camera for lengthy periods. However, I occasionally get the bug to just "change things up" a little bit and pop on a different lens -- sometimes the same focal length, sometimes not

As a photo enthusiast, its all about having fun. Thankfully not pleasing clients and all that joy-killing stuff a "professional" has to deal with.
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Old 1 Week Ago   #35
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Can you compare a Summaron 2.8 with a Elmar 3.5 single coat in terms of contrast etc?
The only 3.5 Elmar I own is the 65mm Viso that I use on a SL2-MOT.

Both are low contrast.

I find the Nikor 35/1.8 has a punchier contrast than the two above and my black Canon 28/3.5.

Cal
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