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Old 01-29-2019   #81
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My navy buddy pinged me about the value of some old Nikon lenses he inherited. I asked him what camera he uses, suggesting he may want to get a Nikon. "I still use that same first model Canon EOS I got in Singapore when the ship pulled in". That was in 1987. He is a very skilled technical person, and all we did was read camera and stereo magazines in the day. The point is, most people not on camera forums buy one camera...and are done for decades.

I heard a radio report last night about Apples slipping iPhone sales. Same reason: people have stopped upgrading to the latest and greatest every 18 months. They stick with "good enough" and stop the expected consumer treadmill.

I bought a first model M4/3 and used it for about 5 years. Then upgraded to a Fuji XE-1 and have used it at least 7-8 years. I have NO desire to jump to the new models every year. None.... That's why I shoot film...I like old stuff that lasts.
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Old 01-29-2019   #82
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
There are three labs here in one of the largest cities in the US. They only do developing and printing runs when they have enough orders to make the most efficient use of chemistry.
As for your friends in the US, water seeks its own level. You choose to converse with like minded people, therefore you see more prints from your skewed sample space.
Phil Forrest
Yes, the lab that I use rarely does printing runs due to the fact that few people request prints. Of course, they rarely do even developing runs as there is only enough demand for 1 run per week.
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Old 01-29-2019   #83
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Ok, let’s relax. I make photo books and that’s printing. Many people do this too. Also, the US does have plenty of photo kiosks to print from phones or sd cards in malls or target or whatever. It may not be the high quality printing you guys have in mind, but people still print. Adorama prints ALOT!
Yes, I see those kiosks at Walgreens and CVS. They are typically abandoned by the store staff because few if any requests for prints come in. These observations are clear and consistent.
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Old 01-29-2019   #84
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
No, they don't pay 15,000$ for a H6 with film back.
$15,000 is the price with digital back included.

Cheers, Jan
OK, I'm sure that few if any photographers are dropping $8,000 on a new Hassy to shoot film. There's probably some, but hardly enough to call a resurgence or even sustain a product line.

This is my opinion.
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Old 01-29-2019   #85
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Originally Posted by goamules View Post
I heard a radio report last night about Apples slipping iPhone sales. Same reason: people have stopped upgrading to the latest and greatest every 18 months. They stick with "good enough" and stop the expected consumer treadmill.
G,

Perhaps I'm like those Iphone purchasers; a Mononchrome and a SL, both now old cameras, that were released years ago, still remain good cameras.

Also due to expense it is a matter of being practical to be happy with what one owns and try to utilize these expensive items for the longest time.

The Iphone 10 is not inexpensive either.

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Old 01-29-2019   #86
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Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
G,

Perhaps I'm like those Iphone purchasers; a Mononchrome and a SL, both now old cameras, that were released years ago, still remain good cameras.

Also due to expense it is a matter of being practical to be happy with what one owns and try to utilize these expensive items for the longest time.

The Iphone 10 is not inexpensive either.

Cal
Yes, the iPhone X costs a fair amount of money. I bought one replacing my iPhone 6 and I expect it to last 4 years at the least.

The camera on it is quite good. I have long since given up carrying a p & s digital camera.
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Phones vs Cameras, Some Thoughts
Old 01-29-2019   #87
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Phones vs Cameras, Some Thoughts

The mobile phone has created a new types of photography - transient photography.

One of these is disposable images. Most phone images have a transient use. You make the image, text it to friends and, or relatives; they view it and within days or weeks it's never viewed again. There is no intent nor interest in any sort of permanent record. How often are selfies viewed one week after they are made?

Another is visual note-taking. A document or object of interest is photographed for the singe purpose of making a temporary record. Usually the record is short lived (days or weeks(. Eventually the record is irrelevant.

Very few consumers are going to use a stand-alone still camera for transient purposes.

The growth of instax photography is an offspring of transient photography. Everyone shares transient digital images. So it seems unique to share a transient printed image. Some may store these images in an organized fashion, but most of them are displayed casually and replaced by newer images. The older images are eventually lost or even discarded. A very small percent are stored in albums.

Image Quality Is Not a Priority

Many mentioned above the newest mobile phones create acceptable images in moderately bright light. I agree. In low light images are automatically filtered (noise reduction). Compared to a new still camera, the IQ is significantly lower. However, most consumers couldn't care less. The images are viewed on small displays which minimizes image degradation due to photon noise. The perceived image quality is sufficient. Convenience and image content are valued much more than rendering aesthetics.

It's 1960 All Over Again

In terms of consumer photography things haven't changed that much. The Kodak Brownie, Instamatic cameras didn't produce the IQ offered by a Leica M, or film SLRs. Friends and family members saw the prints and a significant number were stored in photo albums for occasional viewing. Convenience and cost were valued much more than rendering aesthetics. A relatively small number of consumers transitioned to cameras with more flexibility and IQ.

There Will Always Be A Still Camera Market

People who become interested in photography as a means of self-expression and documentation will eventually become more interested in IQ and flexibility at the expense of convenience. These people will become curious about still cameras. More people are making photographs today than ever before. The small percentage of those consumers who are candidates for entering the still camera market are significant.

Camera companies should market to the segment of mobile phone users who could become interested in non-transient photography. The ads should appeal to consumers' egos (you are an artist, so you deserve a real camera) and they should attack the weaknesses of phone cameras.

The total size of digital camera market will continue to shrink relative to phone cameras. The still camera market exists because of human nature which is essentially a constant. I think there will be enough new photographers to sustain still-camera brands who adapt and are flexible enough to become best of the best.

FUJIFILM recently introduced two hybrid instax cameras, the SQUARE SQ10 and SQ20. The SQ20 has an automatic collage mode and a selfie-mirror system for film or digital imaging. The digital image mode for these hybrids could be viewed as a gateway for those consumers who might transition into FUJFILM's basic APS-C product line. Then GAS kicks in.
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Old 01-29-2019   #88
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
OK, I'm sure that few if any photographers are dropping $8,000 on a new Hassy to shoot film. There's probably some, but hardly enough to call a resurgence or even sustain a product line.
At DW Photo in Germany even the whole company is based on making a high-end medium format film camera, the Hy6 Mod.2 + lenses.
They don't make digital backs.

I have asked Hasselblad at Photokina why their latest models are compatible with film backs again (the H3 and H4 were not). Their answer: Demand. The photographers want an additional film option.

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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
This is my opinion.
And an opinion is not the same as a fact. Your opinion that - quote: "no one is printing anymore" - is proven as completely wrong by looking at the active companies and their sales numbers who are working in the photo printing business.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-29-2019   #89
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
Yes, the iPhone X costs a fair amount of money. I bought one replacing my iPhone 6 and I expect it to last 4 years at the least.

The camera on it is quite good. I have long since given up carrying a p & s digital camera.
Ted,

My blogger gal replaced an Iphone 8 with a Iphone 10.

For her the camera upgrade was a big deal and a rather big jump.

She makes mucho income doing her blog, so pretty much the upgrade is a tax writeoff. She also kills phones. Pretty much they barely make it to two years.

One thing is that she overcharges the battery. One thing I learned from this forum is that it is best to keep/maintain the charge between 40%-80% of full charge for long battery life. This applies to camera batteries and computer batteries also. Likewise she kills computer batteries also. Not worth an argument. I explained once and let it go. Oh-well...

I mistakenly thought that deep cycling is best, but I learned from other forum members that 40%-80% is best for long battery life.

Interesting to note that the charger for my SL has an 80% charge indicator light, as well as a secondary charging light that blinks until fully charged. My three Monochrom batteries and my single SL battery all seem to be doing well. They don't self discharge or have not developed internal resistance and are now old batteries.

Good luck with your phone. The battery seems to be the weak spot.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #90
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Ted,

My blogger gal replaced an Iphone 8 with a Iphone 10.

For her the camera upgrade was a big deal and a rather big jump.

She makes mucho income doing her blog, so pretty much the upgrade is a tax writeoff. She also kills phones. Pretty much they barely make it to two years.

One thing is that she overcharges the battery. One thing I learned from this forum is that it is best to keep/maintain the charge between 40%-80% of full charge for long battery life. This applies to camera batteries and computer batteries also. Likewise she kills computer batteries also. Not worth an argument. I explained once and let it go. Oh-well...

I mistakenly thought that deep cycling is best, but I learned from other forum members that 40%-80% is best for long battery life.

Interesting to note that the charger for my SL has an 80% charge indicator light, as well as a secondary charging light that blinks until fully charged. My three Monochrom batteries and my single SL battery all seem to be doing well. They don't self discharge or have not developed internal resistance and are now old batteries.

Good luck with your phone. The battery seems to be the weak spot.

Cal
iPhone batteries are easily replaced (by Apple) so I dont know why you'd not just get a new battery when needed. My wife recently replaced her battery (iPhone 6S) and it basically became a brand new phone. I'd much rather just budget a new battery every 2 years or so rather than spend any time trying to optimize charging. Her battery was at 60% health after nearly 4 years of random charging. Not too bad.
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Old 01-29-2019   #91
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
The mobile phone has created a new types of photography - transient photography.

One of these is disposable images. Most phone images have a transient use. You make the image, text it to friends and, or relatives; they view it and within days or weeks it's never viewed again. There is no intent nor interest in any sort of permanent record. How often are selfies viewed one week after they are made?

Another is visual note-taking. A document or object of interest is photographed for the singe purpose of making a temporary record. Usually the record is short lived (days or weeks(. Eventually the record is irrelevant.

Very few consumers are going to use a stand-alone still camera for transient purposes.

The growth of instax photography is an offspring of transient photography. Everyone shares transient digital images. So it seems unique to share a transient printed image. Some may store these images in an organized fashion, but most of them are displayed casually and replaced by newer images. The older images are eventually lost or even discarded. A very small percent are stored in albums.

Image Quality Is Not a Priority

Many mentioned above the newest mobile phones create acceptable images in moderately bright light. I agree. In low light images are automatically filtered (noise reduction). Compared to a new still camera, the IQ is significantly lower. However, most consumers couldn't care less. The images are viewed on small displays which minimizes image degradation due to photon noise. The perceived image quality is sufficient. Convenience and image content are valued much more than rendering aesthetics.

It's 1960 All Over Again

In terms of consumer photography things haven't changed that much. The Kodak Brownie, Instamatic cameras didn't produce the IQ offered by a Leica M, or film SLRs. Friends and family members saw the prints and a significant number were stored in photo albums for occasional viewing. Convenience and cost were valued much more than rendering aesthetics. A relatively small number of consumers transitioned to cameras with more flexibility and IQ.

There Will Always Be A Still Camera Market

People who become interested in photography as a means of self-expression and documentation will eventually become more interested in IQ and flexibility at the expense of convenience. These people will become curious about still cameras. More people are making photographs today than ever before. The small percentage of those consumers who are candidates for entering the still camera market are significant.

Camera companies should market to the segment of mobile phone users who could become interested in non-transient photography. The ads should appeal to consumers' egos (you are an artist, so you deserve a real camera) and they should attack the weaknesses of phone cameras.

The total size of digital camera market will continue to shrink relative to phone cameras. The still camera market exists because of human nature which is essentially a constant. I think there will be enough new photographers to sustain still-camera brands who adapt and are flexible enough to become best of the best.

FUJIFILM recently introduced two hybrid instax cameras, the SQUARE SQ10 and SQ20. The SQ20 has an automatic collage mode and a selfie-mirror system for film or digital imaging. The digital image mode for these hybrids could be viewed as a gateway for those consumers who might transition into FUJFILM's basic APS-C product line. Then GAS kicks in.
Willie,

Thanks for this thoughtful post.

Know that I am not so great taking cell phone pictures. For me they are just awkward and are not the best.

That said, one year at Photoville they had a series of displays that promoted the use of cell phones as a form of a social documentary tool. The images were great, and I saw like you how the cell phone is kinda like its own medium.

In the past I was rather dismissive because as a printer IQ is of great importance to me, but now I have mucho respect.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #92
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The problem with cameras these days is despite some including wifi, they are too much of a hassle to get shots off of and sharable. Many people, myself sometimes included, can't wait to have the shot transferred over to a computer, loaded and catalogued in Lightroom, edited, exported, and uploaded. The moment is lost.

What I did on a recent vacation was to take a smartphone shot and share first, then work with film/DSLR for a shot to be carefully edited later. Unfortunately when later came, I lacked the enthusiasm I had at the time so the RAWs/negatives were archived while the Facebook photos stayed.
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Old 01-29-2019   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
One of these is disposable images. Most phone images have a transient use. You make the image, text it to friends and, or relatives; they view it and within days or weeks it's never viewed again. There is no intent nor interest in any sort of permanent record. How often are selfies viewed one week after they are made?
Correct. Phone pictures are used as a communication tool, like words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
The growth of instax photography is an offspring of transient photography. Everyone shares transient digital images. So it seems unique to share a transient printed image. Some may store these images in an organized fashion, but most of them are displayed casually and replaced by newer images. The older images are eventually lost or even discarded. A very small percent are stored in albums.
Not correct. Lots of these pictures are stored. Fujifilm has created a whole range of additional products for storing and working with instax pictures. It is the main topic in their Fujifilm Wonder Stores as well. Lots of bloggers and youtubers are working with it and promoting it (e.g. scrapbooking). Fujifilm has created an complete ecosystem of new storing products. Lots of that happens outside the "hardcore photographer scene", 'normal' people doing that, especially females.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
There Will Always Be A Still Camera Market
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
People who become interested in photography as a means of self-expression and documentation will eventually become more interested in IQ and flexibility at the expense of convenience. These people will become curious about still cameras. More people are making photographs today than ever before. The small percentage of those consumers who are candidates for entering the still camera market are significant.
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
Camera companies should market to the segment of mobile phone users who could become interested in non-transient photography. The ads should appeal to consumers' egos (you are an artist, so you deserve a real camera) and they should attack the weaknesses of phone cameras.
+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
The total size of digital camera market will continue to shrink relative to phone cameras. The still camera market exists because of human nature which is essentially a constant. I think there will be enough new photographers to sustain still-camera brands who adapt and are flexible enough to become best of the best.
+1

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-29-2019   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
The mobile phone has created a new types of photography - transient photography.

One of these is disposable images. Most phone images have a transient use. You make the image, text it to friends and, or relatives; they view it and within days or weeks it's never viewed again. There is no intent nor interest in any sort of permanent record. How often are selfies viewed one week after they are made?

Another is visual note-taking. A document or object of interest is photographed for the singe purpose of making a temporary record. Usually the record is short lived (days or weeks(. Eventually the record is irrelevant.
Basically that's it. I use it as a P&S and back it up, but the average consumer may not or it just goes to a cloud storage service that backs up automatically.

It's an interesting concept, of the "dark digital age" possibility. OTOH, stuff that's out posted on the web still lingers out there. It's easy to flick a couple of clicks and end up seeing posts from 10+ years ago that are still there.

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Originally Posted by Calzone View Post
One thing is that she overcharges the battery. One thing I learned from this forum is that it is best to keep/maintain the charge between 40%-80% of full charge for long battery life. This applies to camera batteries and computer batteries also. Likewise she kills computer batteries also. Not worth an argument. I explained once and let it go. Oh-well...

I mistakenly thought that deep cycling is best, but I learned from other forum members that 40%-80% is best for long battery life.

Cal
I have to read more about the Lithium batteries. Mine in the iPhone 6 was replaced just short of a year ago and I feel it has lost some performance. After this one goes the phone should be 5-6 years old. At the moment it works fine so I keep it going. Insert some rant about the closed system and parts replacement, such as complicated battery replacements and limited storage that's hard to upgrade.

Aside of some stuff like camera performance, most people don't really need a high end phone IMO. Specially those who just text.
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Old 01-29-2019   #95
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
iPhone batteries are easily replaced (by Apple) so I dont know why you'd not just get a new battery when needed. My wife recently replaced her battery (iPhone 6S) and it basically became a brand new phone. I'd much rather just budget a new battery every 2 years or so rather than spend any time trying to optimize charging. Her battery was at 60% health after nearly 4 years of random charging. Not too bad.
Ted,

I would do what you suggest because it is practical, but "woman factor" is at play here. It does not help that my gal is a fierce woman who also has a PhD that worked with too many lawyers learning a culture of being adverserial. Academics are also trained to dig in and argue positions.

I'm a happy guy who dislikes arguing. I try to be helpful once, but then I move on.

In my life sometimes it is best not to get technical or scientific, and most times it is best not to talk fact. Happy-happy.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #96
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The problem with cameras these days is despite some including wifi, they are too much of a hassle to get shots off of and sharable. Many people, myself sometimes included, can't wait to have the shot transferred over to a computer, loaded and catalogued in Lightroom, edited, exported, and uploaded. The moment is lost.

What I did on a recent vacation was to take a smartphone shot and share first, then work with film/DSLR for a shot to be carefully edited later. Unfortunately when later came, I lacked the enthusiasm I had at the time so the RAWs/negatives were archived while the Facebook photos stayed.
C,

I believe all this is worked out in the Iphone 10. My blogger gal does Instagram stories that are only posted for 24 hours. She uploads pics all the time to and from her phone.

The Leica CL also has some way of uploading JPEGs to her phone in a seamless manner. Seams like Leica designed this camera with bloggers in mind. An ap has to be downloaded. My gal transferes photos onto her phone on the street all the time.

These seem like the ideal tools that have "legs" for bloggers. My gal likes the CL because of the IQ, the speed, and the small package. She travels a lot and all over the planet. I think the dual slot allows for some advantage when changing over to a different communications system/network for those that have a bi-continental lifestyle. "Maggie" once explained it to me. As for an example if she goes to live in China she would install a second simm card and just set up the phone, then upon return to the U.S. just switch to the other card.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #97
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I have to read more about the Lithium batteries. Mine in the iPhone 6 was replaced just short of a year ago and I feel it has lost some performance. After this one goes the phone should be 5-6 years old. At the moment it works fine so I keep it going. Insert some rant about the closed system and parts replacement, such as complicated battery replacements and limited storage that's hard to upgrade.

Aside of some stuff like camera performance, most people don't really need a high end phone IMO. Specially those who just text.
If you live near an Apple store, changing the battery takes about 30 minutes. Your phone will be fully powered then. In areas where there aren't Apple stores, there may be authorized service centers that do the same thing.

It's much more cost effective to replace the battery than buy a new phone. That said, the iPhone 6 is quite old now and the new screens are light years ahead of the 6. The same with the camera.
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Old 01-29-2019   #98
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Yes, I see those kiosks at Walgreens and CVS. They are typically abandoned by the store staff because few if any requests for prints come in. These observations are clear and consistent.
Where do you live? This could explain part of it no?
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Old 01-29-2019   #99
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Where do you live? This could explain part of it no?
USA. I spend a lot of time in Chicago and never see anyone at the print kiosks in the stores there. I also spend a lot of time in Japan and see a lot of Fujifilm print kiosks at places like Yodobashi or Bic Camera. Everyone now and then I'll see someone use a kiosk but most of the time, they are empty of people. Certainly no lines or busy activity that indicates a large number of people printing. The kiosks are very quiet and mostly left alone. A lot of times the machines are powered off, probably to save energy.
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Old 01-29-2019   #100
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PTP,

Many times in life I have stood alone. The persona I present here on RFF is not really me. In real life, even though I live in NYC surrounded by millions, I basically am a loner and always have been.

It is true that I have many posts here, but realize I only registered on RFF perhaps in 2007, so divide my amount of posting over a twelve year period and the amount of posting is not that high.

I am cursed that I stand out in a crowd. I also have this tendency/talent to bring out either the good or the bad in people, but I assure you that even though I can be very-very social, I am happiest when I'm alone.

Back when Ronald Ray-Gun was President, I worked at Los Alamos on one of his "Star Wars" projects, a Neutral Partical Beam Weapon prototype that was to be space based, to shoot down Intercontinental Ballistic Missles in their boost phase before they vaporize us.

I did a Henry David Thourogh and lived in a log cabin 47 miles from civilization in the Santa Fe National Forest. My cabin was so remote that I got no TV reception. The small community I lived in was just 80 mailboxes on State Highway 4. Most people do not understand or know peace like I do. Not many know what it is truely like to be alone.

Cal
Although living in NYC you sound you would relate more to Dick Proenneke, that fellow who at age 50 moved to a remote location in Alaska, built a cabin, and lived there alone until his 80's. His contact with the rest of world was an occasional visit by bush pilots using float planes to land on the nearby lake.
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Old 01-29-2019   #101
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USA. I spend a lot of time in Chicago and never see anyone at the print kiosks in the stores there. I also spend a lot of time in Japan and see a lot of Fujifilm print kiosks at places like Yodobashi or Bic Camera. Everyone now and then I'll see someone use a kiosk but most of the time, they are empty of people. Certainly no lines or busy activity that indicates a large number of people printing. The kiosks are very quiet and mostly left alone. A lot of times the machines are powered off, probably to save energy.
I understand... I lived in NYC for many years and now I have lived in Santiago Chile for 1.5 years. I see more people at these kiosks in Santiago than I did in NYC. However, Adorama does a lot of print business in NYC... really. Here, I am seeing film stores pop up, but it appears that everyone who does film here might average 1-2 rolls a month and use cheap SLRs. It`s just expensive here.
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Old 01-29-2019   #102
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It's one of those strangely poetic moments. As industry sales decline, the cameras have never been better.
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Old 01-29-2019   #103
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Print kiosks in my local are ALWAYS busy.

Typically with a 1-2 person wait. Unless your out at unusual hours.
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Old 01-29-2019   #104
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Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
It's one of those strangely poetic moments. As industry sales decline, the cameras have never been better.
I agree... we have such great tools at our disposal, no matter what your camera fetish is...
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Old 01-29-2019   #105
Ted Striker
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Originally Posted by B-9 View Post
Print kiosks in my local are ALWAYS busy.

Typically with a 1-2 person wait. Unless your out at unusual hours.
Where might you be?
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Old 01-29-2019   #106
Phil_F_NM
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Y'all should check out how popular Instax is by seeing how many of them are being resold at shopgoodwill.com. All of those cameras work and almost all of them are available for under $10. What does that say about the durability of the Instax Market?
Phil Forrest
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Old 01-29-2019   #107
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Y'all should check out how popular Instax is by seeing how many of them are being resold at shopgoodwill.com. All of those cameras work and almost all of them are available for under $10. What does that say about the durability of the Instax Market?
Phil Forrest
INSTAX is pretty popular in Asia. I've seen young people shooting with those cameras fairly often. Never seen a single one in the US out in the wild. Not even one.
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Old 01-29-2019   #108
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Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
I'll let you know when I see a print.
My local Costco and Samys camera have people picking up prints all the time. It’s also what I sell at my gallery.

In other news I have never actually seen a kangaroo. Or a Kardashian. That means they do not exist.
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Old 01-29-2019   #109
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
Although living in NYC you sound you would relate more to Dick Proenneke, that fellow who at age 50 moved to a remote location in Alaska, built a cabin, and lived there alone until his 80's. His contact with the rest of world was an occasional visit by bush pilots using float planes to land on the nearby lake.
Z,

I think my upbringing is very conflicted. I was born in 1958, and in the 1960 Census there were less than 238K Asians in the U.S. (about half were Chinese).

Racism was different. My dad only was one of 1428 Chinese who were allowed to become an Naturalized American citizen because of a loophole in the Chinese Exclusion act of 1885 because of his service in the U.S. Army during WWII. My dad was an illegal immigrant here for about 15 years prior to that.

I grew up during the Vietnam era looking like the enemy, but realize I grew up in the Long Island suburbs where we did not fit in. The first thing I learned in kindergarden was how to fight. By the third grade I was good at it.

So I learned to defend myself and was forced to deal with potential violence that could happen at any time. Add on top of that that I learned later in life that really I am a product of culture and my surroundings, and I one day discovered that I'm a white boy trapped in an Asian body with a very confused identity.

I don't speak Chinese, and the harsh reality is that I fill a grey inbetween area a place where I never feel I belong. Because I don't speak Chinese I'm kinda excommunicated. I only reinforced the Asian stereotype because it was a path of least resistance where I was allowed to succeed.

Tom Bro-Cough recently insulted Hispanics and makes a comparision to Asians that they should have the same values and work ethic. I too feel insulted as an Asian because his profiling of Asians I take exception to and are just as racist.

Not sure everyone can realize the limitations placed on groups of people that is everyday for some.

I was trained in art school as a studio artist. This involved creating skill, discipline, and expending mucho time pursuing the arts and one's craft. This is a very solitary thing to do, but very exhilerating. I find this type of artistic solitude very fulfilling, and it is so complete that I think I don't need much more to be happy. In a Welcome to Marwin manner I kinda create a safe place of my own invention where I basically live in a bubble and not the real world.

Having a relationship (been with my gal for over 20 years) means not being so selfish and involves compromise. A way to explain this is when traveling alone and shooting alone, verses trying to shoot in another country with your gal in tow. Sharing your life has its own merits.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #110
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Y'all should check out how popular Instax is by seeing how many of them are being resold at shopgoodwill.com. All of those cameras work and almost all of them are available for under $10. What does that say about the durability of the Instax Market?
I would say that is a good thing; the cameras are not being forgotten in a drawer or disposed of in some other means. One of the best things about the Instax system is that it serves as an introduction to film photography and it is most likely all those Instax cameras you see at Goodwill once belonged to young photographers who have since moved on to other, more traditional film formats and cameras.

Fueled at least in part by Instax, film photography is experiencing record growth in Italy, Belgium, Scandinavia, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Indonesia, Russia, Australia as well as of course in the US and the UK. Despite the dark clouds expressed by the naysayers.

Cheers, Robert
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Old 01-29-2019   #111
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To those that proclaim the resurgence of the camera industry...just imagine this..
You just inherited a cool 20 mil...but you can only receive it on condition that you invest it for 10 years in 1 company... all 20 mil..
Will it be a company in the photo industry..
Unless you are so rich already that you don't care about losing the 20..
I think...not..
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Old 01-29-2019   #112
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Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
To those that proclaim the resurgence of the camera industry...just imagine this..
You just inherited a cool 20 mil...but you can only receive it on condition that you invest it for 10 years in 1 company... all 20 mil..
Will it be a company in the photo industry..
Unless you are so rich already that you don't care about losing the 20..
I think...not..
I "invested" a whole $120 in a film company (Film Ferrania). Lost every dollar.
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Old 01-29-2019   #113
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Y'all should check out how popular Instax is by seeing how many of them are being resold at shopgoodwill.com. All of those cameras work and almost all of them are available for under $10. What does that say about the durability of the Instax Market?
Phil Forrest
That so many are sold that they even end up at goodwill?
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Old 01-29-2019   #114
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I've been seeing a lot of Instax cameras lately. Mostly young people !
Even a friend of mine that is not into photography bought an SQ6 this christmas. Fuji sure is marketing them well !
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Old 01-29-2019   #115
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
That so many are sold that they even end up at goodwill?
John,

One case study is my gal. She wanted an Instax for Christmas back when, and I loaded her up with film.

The camera now goes unused as the novelty wore off. In my frig is a handful of both color and B&W Instax films.

"Maggie" is not so pleased with the IQ, and now IMHO the novelty wore off. Digital pictures shot on her Iphone 10 and the CL end up being more practical and useful.

Meanwhile in my frig is over 20 packs of Fuji FP100 that is my stash. Back when I could buy 25 packs for $20.00 each I did, and since then the prices have gotten crazy. Pretty much I could double my money.

The IQ of the FP-100 with a Zeiss 100 Planar mounted on a baby Linhof is respectable and wonderful.

So in this single case study I mentioned above I think the novelty wears off if there is no practical use for the images. Film is not inexpensive either. With my FP-100 on a Baby Linhof I'm having/experiencing difficulty coming up with a cool project that is worthy of expending the FP-100.

In other words I would rather just shoot B&W film and save the FP-100 which is costly.

Cal
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Old 01-29-2019   #116
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Originally Posted by Phil_F_NM View Post
Y'all should check out how popular Instax is by seeing how many of them are being resold at shopgoodwill.com. All of those cameras work and almost all of them are available for under $10. What does that say about the durability of the Instax Market?
Phil Forrest
Instax was introduced in 1998. It had its first sales peak in 2001. Then a short decline until 2004.
Since 2004 the instax sales are increasing every year. Fujifilm has published the chart some time ago.
For their current fiscal year Fujifilm has planned a global sales volume of 10 million cameras. That with such a huge production volume you see some cameras offered at shopgoodwill is not surprising at all.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 01-29-2019   #117
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I'd say about a third of the photography shelf space at my local big box electronics chain store (Northeast U.S.) is devoted to Instax. Pretty huge deal this deep into the digital era, I'd say.
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Old 01-29-2019   #118
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Getting back to the main subject...

It seems like surviving camera companies need to focus on "lifestyle branding" rather than strictly functional electronics. The uptick in interest I see from young people is about nostalgia, history and restoring the tactile (which they never experienced first-hand). Obviously there is enormous interest in this trend, but to make a profit it is usually tied to marketing, branding and "lifestyle." Perhaps the best analogy is to the vinyl record "resurgence": suddenly I hear people in their twenties talking about their record collections and buying records at Urban Outfitters, etc. While these sales are still pathetic compared to what the industry once was, it is the only lively aspect of the music business (in my view), and keeps some people connected to music.

In the same way, people probably won't be using an actual camera for everyday photos since smart phones do that. But the devices themselves (either vintage equipment or new) are what would be the lifestyle choice, the cool accessory, etc.

A prime example is the InstantKon Instax rangefinder. They can't keep up with demand and are not even taking new orders until the second half of the year. I know this is a low number in the scheme of things, but it does represent the kind of demand that Canon, Fuji and Nikon either ignore or don't need. That is the future, though, I think, for cameras.

I've seen five vintage Leica's being used recently on the streets of NYC —*all by people in their 20's. Presumably there's something there that phones are not providing.
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Old 01-29-2019   #119
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Originally Posted by justins7 View Post
In the same way, people probably won't be using an actual camera for everyday photos since smart phones do that.
Great post. Enjoyed reading it. The above point you made is very pertinent to the film industry. Previous to digital, every day life was captured on film. When people did that, 3 BILLION rolls of film were coated per year at its peak.

Now in the digital era, that number is 96% less if not more so. So when we talk film resurgence, we are starting from an extremely low number.

Instant photography is where the resurgence is at for the most part. It was many folks hope that INSTAX sales would help support traditional film stay in existence. Sadly, we know that is not the case with the past axing of Acros by Fujifilm.
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Old 01-29-2019   #120
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Originally Posted by HHPhoto View Post
Instax was introduced in 1998. It had its first sales peak in 2001. Then a short decline until 2004.
Since 2004 the instax sales are increasing every year. Fujifilm has published the chart some time ago.
For their current fiscal year Fujifilm has planned a global sales volume of 10 million cameras. That with such a huge production volume you see some cameras offered at shopgoodwill is not surprising at all.

Cheers, Jan
I tossed my old P & S digital cameras to goodwill. A few years ago I gave away my Fujifilm F10, F20, and F31fd. My iPhone X more than matches what those old cameras can do so rather than clutter up the house, I gave them away.
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