Old 09-10-2017   #241
wilsonlaidlaw
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There is a thread on scanning with the BEOON on the Leica-Camera forum at the moment. I have asked the question as I have a BEOON waiting for me when I get back to the UK next month. I will be using exactly the same combo as above, 50mm APO Rodagon-N and either Leica M240 or SL. Someone has been scanning slides with a Companon S, so that should be exactly the same combination of tubes and adapters as the Rodagon. I will post here when I get the answer.
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Old 09-10-2017   #242
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Here is another LCF thread with yet more (lots more!) information on BEOON scanning. https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic...urchase/page-6

It would appear that the answer for a 50mm Rodagon is tubes B+C+D for 1:1 of a 35mm film image.

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Old 09-10-2017   #243
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Thanks Wilson, I'm participating there too (Steve Ricoh)
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Old 09-28-2017   #244
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The Elmar 50 3.5 was advertised in 1953 as a standard, enlarging and copying lens.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5nTaRbIfn_...dA/s1600/6.jpg

(From The Online Darkroom site.)
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Old 09-28-2017   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
The Elmar 50 3.5 was advertised in 1953 as a standard, enlarging and copying lens.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5nTaRbIfn_...dA/s1600/6.jpg

(From The Online Darkroom site.)
You can use an Elmar 50/3.5 but it does not have a very flat field and if you close down enough to compensate for this, with a 24MP digital, you may be running into diffraction limitation. The Elmar 65 which was designed specifically as a reprographic lens might be better but I am not sure if it will fit in the BEOON, as you would need to use an additional 41mm extension tube, given that it is a Visoflex lens. When I get back to the UK in three weeks I will try various combinations and report back. I have an Elmar 50/3.5, an Elmar 65/3.5 and loads of different extension tubes, including a 41mm. I think that a good (if you can find one) 50 Focotar 2, 50 Componon S or 50 APO Rodagon-N are the best compromises from the extensive testing that others have already done.

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Old 09-29-2017   #246
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Originally Posted by wilsonlaidlaw View Post
You can use an Elmar 50/3.5 but it does not have a very flat field and if you close down enough to compensate for this, with a 24MP digital, you may be running into diffraction limitation. The Elmar 65 which was designed specifically as a reprographic lens might be better but I am not sure if it will fit in the BEOON, as you would need to use an additional 41mm extension tube, given that it is a Visoflex lens. When I get back to the UK in three weeks I will try various combinations and report back. I have an Elmar 50/3.5, an Elmar 65/3.5 and loads of different extension tubes, including a 41mm. I think that a good (if you can find one) 50 Focotar 2, 50 Componon S or 50 APO Rodagon-N are the best compromises from the extensive testing that others have already done.
Hi Wilson,

Data points for various and sundry lenses: using the BEOON with

- Voigtländer Color-Skopar 50mm f/2.5 : V Good results between f/8 and f/11
- Leica Summicron 50mm f/2 (current) : Excellent results between f/5.6 and f/11
- Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 Pre-AI : Excellent results throughout
- Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 : Excellent results but nearing the limits for the BEOON
- Summicron-R 50mm f/2 : V Good results, improving at higher magnifications

I used a Rayqual Nikon->Leica M adapter for the Nikkor, and the R Adapter M for the R lenses. The Summicron-R 50 is particularly good at magnifications past the BEOON's range ... it's the best lens of this set at 2-3:1 magnifications.

G
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Old 09-29-2017   #247
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Thanks for that information Godfrey. The only one of those lenses I have is the Series 5 Summicron, albeit in the special LTM edition. Of my 50mm Leica and Leica fit camera lenses, of which I have far, far too many, I felt the most likely to be good was the Zeiss ZM Planar f2. I still suspect I will get better results from a good enlarging lens, as that is what Leica recommended on their final instructions for the BEOON (the Focotar). It is a bit of a toss up between the considerably cheaper but older Componon S or the more expensive newer APO-Rodagon-N. I saw tests some time ago that claimed that the Rodagon could at f5.6, its optimum aperture, resolve in excess of 250 lp/mm, which is in excess of what the SL at 166/pixels per mm can resolve. I am never sure if 200 line pairs/mm is equivalent to 200 pixels/mm or 100 pixels/mm or something else.

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Old 10-14-2017   #248
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I've tried using the El-Nikkor 50mm f/2.8 and the Componon-S 50mm f2.8 with tubes B,C+D without success. Although the Componon-S is marginally better, in both cases with the BEOON column at minimum column height critical focus is not achievable. I'm using an M240 with live view enabled. On the other hand if I position the negative on a sheet of glass on top the BEOON baseplate, critical focus is achievable with reduced extension tube length, although at something less than 1:1.
The lens equation identifies the criticality of the enlarger lens nodal point. A small variation can have a large impact.
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Old 10-14-2017   #249
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Hmmm. I was using the EL Nikkor 50/2.8 on my BEOON and it gave me a good approx. 1:1 with 35mm format. I'm sorry I don't remember the tube combo, but I will be pulling it out again in a few days or next week. Will try to remember and provide my setup here.

Went to get one of these highly regarded APO Rodagon-N lenses back when I first got the BEOON. Um, those are not cheap lenses. So the EL Nikkor it will have to be. I do have some other decent enlarger lenses, and they all must be slightly different focal lengths because they all give slightly different magnifications with the same tube combo.... They all claim to be 50mm. Just the way of the world?
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Old 10-15-2017   #250
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Many have success with the Nikkor 50 f2.8, the Componon-S 50 f2.8 and other enlarger lenses, and having read the many reviews I wasnt expecting anything other than success - sadly not. To date I've only read of one other BEOON user having problems, and that was with the highly regarded Focotar-2. Just thought I'd post my experience as a warning. Different copies of the same enlarger lens can have a small variation in the positioning of the nodal point (having little or no affect when using an enlarger) that's magnified for 1:1 reproduction, as explained by the simple lens equation.
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Old 04-10-2018   #251
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Thank you to everyone for clarifications and Info. I made a snap decision to buy a Leitz BEOON on the bay. I will be using it with an apo-rodagon 50 2.8. when I get it all set up I will share my findings. Cheers!
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Old 04-10-2018   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicolasCooper View Post
Thank you to everyone for clarifications and Info. I made a snap decision to buy a Leitz BEOON on the bay. I will be using it with an apo-rodagon 50 2.8. when I get it all set up I will share my findings. Cheers!
Best of luck to you! I have had nothing but good results from mine using the EL-Nikkor 50/2.8.
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Old 04-16-2018   #253
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Just a heads up, in case no one has tried it. I was able to "scan" full frame 35mm film 1:1 using the new CL on the BEOON with Apo-rodagon 50mm f2.8 + tubes B+D and had enough column range. The magnification on the live view works wonders, and I was even able to use the peaking for focus. I will probably be trying more 35mm scans as well as some 6x7 negatives over the next few days, and if it works, or not, will try to report.
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Old 04-17-2018   #254
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Originally Posted by quadtones View Post
Just a heads up, in case no one has tried it. I was able to "scan" full frame 35mm film 1:1 using the new CL on the BEOON with Apo-rodagon 50mm f2.8 + tubes B+D and had enough column range. The magnification on the live view works wonders, and I was even able to use the peaking for focus. I will probably be trying more 35mm scans as well as some 6x7 negatives over the next few days, and if it works, or not, will try to report.
That is good news. The SL is a bit "top heavy" on the BEOON and I am concerned that the total weight will damage my LED light box.

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Old 10-30-2018   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
34.4mm = D
17.2mm = C
8.6mm = B
7mm = A
1mm = LTM adapter
My BEOON setup has changed slightly. The scanning back is now a Sony A7Rii. The lens is the EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 which I found to perform much better than the Componon-S.

I have the same magnification problems as some others. If I use B+D, I can achieve focus but the crop only gives me about half the resolution of the sensor. If I use C+D, I get something which looks like 1:1 on the screen, but can't *quite* focus it (the column won't go any lower).

So I'm going to have a go at resolving this. I've ordered a Leica 17675 tube, which I believe is also known as a DOORX, and is apparently 15mm. I'm hoping that with the 17675 and the D tube, I will get close to 1:1 and be able to focus it.

We shall see!
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Old 10-30-2018   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintoid View Post
My BEOON setup has changed slightly. The scanning back is now a Sony A7Rii. The lens is the EL-Nikkor 50mm f2.8 which I found to perform much better than the Componon-S.

I have the same magnification problems as some others. If I use B+D, I can achieve focus but the crop only gives me about half the resolution of the sensor. If I use C+D, I get something which looks like 1:1 on the screen, but can't *quite* focus it (the column won't go any lower).

So I'm going to have a go at resolving this. I've ordered a Leica 17675 tube, which I believe is also known as a DOORX, and is apparently 15mm. I'm hoping that with the 17675 and the D tube, I will get close to 1:1 and be able to focus it.

We shall see!
Wintoid, what adapter are you using for the Sony? I also use the BEOON with an EL-Nikkor 50mm f/2.8, but using an APS-C NEX-5T with the Voigtlander VM-E Close Focus Adapter. I'm not sure about the thickness of the adapter itself, but the built in close focus helicoid on the adapter allows for an addition 4mm of extension. The adapter is not cheap, but it may give you the extra bit of adjustment you need.

Here's our own late, great Mr. Tom Abrahamsson giving an overview of the adapter.
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Old 10-30-2018   #257
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I have the regular non-close-focus Voigtlander adapter. If my cunning plan fails, I might hunt down one like yours, although I think I really need to get the camera closer to the negative.
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Old 10-31-2018   #258
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Wintoid, or raise the negative closer to the taking lens, but in doing so it takes a bit (lot) of fiddling to obtain alignment (as distinct from focus).
I've not touched the BEOON for 12 months or so, I may well dig it out again.

A minor point (minor???): whilst previously using my M240 on the BEOON I did end up getting quite a lot of sensor dust - I suspect the same thing happens when changing lenses as dust is allowed to enter the cavity between the flange and the shutter. Fire the shutter and some of the trapped dust finds its way to the charged sensor, I guess. But as said, I did end up with more whilst experimenting with the BEOON and the various extension tubes.
Good luck.
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Old 10-31-2018   #259
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Yeah no luck with this. I still couldn't get perfect focus as the stand wouldn't lower enough. I think the best solution is going to be to make a new holder for the BEOON that sits flat over the base (instead of dipping like the existing holders).

If I use C+D, I can raise the negative up and get perfect focus and almost 100% view. That's got to be the best solution. I don't want to replace the lens, it's noticeably sharper than the Componon-S and APO Rodagon I've tried.
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Old 10-31-2018   #260
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Has always been the case for me that the BEOON won't lower enough. I have tried combinations of the supplied tubes, and add on 3rd party tubes of varying length; tried the Nokkor 50 f2.8 and the Componon S 50mm, also f2.8 I believe, none work, always a compromise, apart from the 50mm 'taking' lens off the camera.

Wintoid, I would be interested in hearing if you manage to engineer a holder to sit on top of the base, one where you set up alignment once, then forget.

I came to realise that the BEOON can be a black hole for cash, if you allow it. I still have all the bits, but it's sitting on my desk in the study all forlorn and unloved.
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Old 10-31-2018   #261
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I'm pretty convinced at this point that the BEOON and the Summicron-M 50mm are about the best combination for capture with my M-P 240 (no longer owned), M-D 262, and CL bodies. All the magnification markings on the tubes and column align properly with actual results with the lens at the infinity setting, the focusing mount of the lens adds a small finesse to getting the focus exactly right, and the performance is excellent at f/5.6 to f/11 with no evidence of diffraction that I can see.

The BEOON focusing magnifier works well for the M-D, but in general I find that the CL with its TTL viewing works better for FF 35mm film capture at the 2:1 setting. I can set it up once, tape the BEOON/lightbox/etc together so it doesn't move at all, and 'scan' an entire roll of negs this way in just a few minutes time, using the Leica FOTOS app as a remote trigger. If the negs are close to average in their densities, I can just leave the camera on autoexposure and get amazingly good results.

For medium format (6x6, 6x9, 6x7), I can do the same with the M-D; otherwise, with the CL, I switch to a Novoflex copy stand and the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm now which has much more range and flexibility. For my Minox and other submini formats, the Leica Focusing Bellows R fitted with the Summicron-R 50mm on the Novoflex copy stand nets the right combination with the CL body.

G
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Old 10-31-2018   #262
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Thanks for updating Godfrey, having read I'm now of the opinion to ditch the enlarger lens option and revert to the Summilux 50 f/1.4 asph.
So with the taking lens in situ on the BEOON, do I focus using live view (I don't have the BEOON Loope unfortunately) wide open at 1.4, then stop down to f11 and what metering mode would I best choose, I was thinking aperture priority. (I have the correct cable release for the M240).
Thanks, Steve
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Old 10-31-2018   #263
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Believe it or not, Godfrey, I'd never tried that. I've just tried with my rigid Summicron 50 and my Nokton 50 both at f8, and the Summicron works better than the Nokton. The enlarger lens is still better, but there's not much in it.

I might opt for convenience!
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Old 11-04-2018   #264
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At one point I ordered an APO Rodagon-N 50mm. When it arrived, it was not as described, and was a regular APO Rodagon. I tested it on the BEOON, and it was able to focus with C+D to get full frame. However, the lens performance was rubbish compared with the EL-Nikkor, and anyway it was not the lens I ordered, so I sent it back.

The APO Rodagon-N seems to be really expensive, and there are no Focotar-2 lenses around, so I'm taking a punt on a Minolta CE 50mm f2.8, to see if that's any better.
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Old 11-06-2018   #265
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Just in case it's of use to anyone else, the Minolta CE 50mm f2.8 is an excellent lens, the best enlarger lens I've used on the BEOON, slightly better than the EL-Nikkor. Unfortunately, it has the same focus/framing problems as the EL-Nikkor, at least on my BEOON.
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Old 11-06-2018   #266
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I stopped having tried two enlarger lenses, the El-Nikkor 50 f/2.8 and the Componon S f/2.8, in that order. To me any further experimentation with enlarger lenses seemed a further waste of money. The BEOON would probably work with either lens if the column height was reduced by about half an inch. Less drastic measures: possibly try an enlarger lens of 55 or 60mm f/l, or somehow mount a negative carrier on top of the base (but crucially it would need proper engineering to stop the carrier moving as the negative strip is advanced).
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Old 11-06-2018   #267
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Just find a Focotar..works well w/BEOON..

For larger negs..I use a Leitz Valoy w/copystand attachment..5x7 neg nere..
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Old 11-06-2018   #268
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Emile, have you experienced the problem with non-Focotar lenses? If not, it's possible your BEOON doesn't exhibit this issue.
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Old 11-06-2018   #269
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As long as you have the spacers correct..you should be able to use 50mm & 60mm lenses..
Don't know if the Nikkor and Rodenstock have different nodal points though..maybe that casts a fly in the ointment..
I have not tried any other enlarging lenses on the BEOON other than the Focotars...which are really nice because they are meant to be used wide open or 1/2 stop down and remain sharp in the corners..
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Old 11-07-2018   #270
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Thanks Emile. Unfortunately, as Steve discovered, logic doesn't help us much here. I agree that 50mm lenses should work. It's clear that in my case the EL-Nikkor and Minolta 50mm lenses do not work. Therefore, I'm hoping we will find someone who can tell us anecdotally that they had problems with a Nikkor/Minolta/something else, but that it was fine with a Focotar 2.

Otherwise, it might be the BEOON itself that is different, and perhaps your particular BEOON would be fine with a Nikkor or Minolta.

Last edited by wintoid : 11-07-2018 at 00:36. Reason: Typo
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Old 11-07-2018   #271
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Wintoid, via the LUF I compared the critical measurements of my BEOON with another member on the forum (actually someone else joined the conversation so there were three of us in total) and the measurements were exactly the same, allowing for experimental error in terms of fractions of a mm. In other words (as expected) BEOONs are repeatable.

On the same forum 'Pop' (he's an administrator there), who seems to know his lens equations fairly well, devised an experiment to determine the nodal point of a complex lens such as an enlarger. Maybe worth reading up on that.

Due to the nature of enlargers, I conclude the nodal point of enlarger lenses is not a critical dimension and manufacturers know this.

Also, the BEOON was designed to be used with a 50mm 'taking' lens focused at infinity, set at f11, for 1:1 reproduction. It's reasonable to conclude that the Leitz design team did not consider enlarger lenses to be part of the design brief.
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Old 11-07-2018   #272
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Plenty of enlarger lenses to try out, depending how deep your pockets...

https://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk...?k=:4:14707::0

I do not in anyway have connection with the above company, and do not receive any commission of any sort. Thought I'd mention that in case anyone thought otherwise.
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Old 11-07-2018   #273
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I did try the BEOON with the 60mm R Macro lens..it worked!
But..the 60mm R just cant compete with the Focotar in the corners..no matter how much it was stopped down..
I also tried the 100mm Focotar-2...but it didn't work...
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Old 11-07-2018   #274
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The trouble with enlarger lens applied to the 'simple lens equation' is that you have no idea where the nodal point is without experiment. You could say the same about the 50mm 'taking' lens, but Leitz worked it out that focused at infinity an exact 1:1 will be presented onto the film or digital sensor. I also think 'taking' lenses are more repeatable, they have to be.
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Old 11-07-2018   #275
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Problem with taking lenses is..they are crap in the corners on a flat plane..and if you stop them down..diffraction..losers both ways..
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Old 11-07-2018   #276
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Yes, that's the conundrum. But finding a Focotar-2 for reasonable money and then finding out the BEOON column bottoms before critical focus is achieved, even though 10 other people have had success, that's another issue. The thing is, there's no guarantee that every copy of the same enlarger lens will work the same
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Old 11-07-2018   #277
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Quote:
But finding a Focotar-2 for reasonable money
That's a fun trick isn't it!
Quote:
there's no guarantee that every copy of the same enlarger lens will work the same
Nope..but I think most/all Focotar 2's will work fine..as they are the same formula..
I own 2 of them..and they are the same..all made for the Leitz 1c enlarger..for auto focus..
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Old 11-07-2018   #278
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Is full frame really necessary? I understand wanting to get the most out of your camera’s sensor, but ask yourself if you really need that much resolution. When using the BEOON and EL-Nikkor 50/2.8 in my setup, the negative image takes up about ⅔ of the sensor space. This is plenty of resolution for my needs, and sharpness fall-off at corners is never an issue. I’m always using the sweet spot of the lens.
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Old 11-07-2018   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile de Leon View Post
That's a fun trick isn't it!

Nope..but I think most/all Focotar 2's will work fine..as they are the same formula..
I own 2 of them..and they are the same..all made for the Leitz 1c enlarger..for auto focus..
That's greedy
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Old 11-07-2018   #280
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Been busy and lost track of this thread a little this past week and some. Sorry.

Quote:
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Is full frame really necessary? I understand wanting to get the most out of your camera’s sensor, but ask yourself if you really need that much resolution. When using the BEOON and EL-Nikkor 50/2.8 in my setup, the negative image takes up about ⅔ of the sensor space. This is plenty of resolution for my needs, and sharpness fall-off at corners is never an issue. I’m always using the sweet spot of the lens.
Well, given a Leica M digital body and a 35mm full frame negative, if you reduce the size of the negative to the dimensions of APS-C (about 1:2 or so), you've reduced the resolution from 24 MPixel to about 10 Mpixel. That loses too much, IMO. I want to capture at the same resolution as my Nikon Coolscan V film scanner, which nets about 21 Mpixel at 4000ppi from the full frame, minus the little bit that the film carrier crops. Having more pixels, particularly with film capture, allows more flexibility in rendering and preparing the image for printing.

What I have been working with is using a CL body rather than the M body to capture 35mm negatives. This has some advantages: You can use the "easier" 1:2 magnification settings to fill the frame, you're using the "sweet spot" in the center of your taking lens, and you're still getting 24 Mpixel resolution. Copy situations (everything locked down tight on BEOON and light box) means you can use the sensor's base ISO (100 or 200 depending on who you believe) plus the optimum, non-diffraction generating aperture setting to get maximum dynamic range and image quality ... and you no longer need a specialized flat-field lens to cover the sensor to the corners with optimal results because the center sweet spot of any good macro lens (or even my favorite Summicron-R 50mm f/2) is good enough when it comes to field flatness. You also don't need the BEOON loupe magnifier since the CL's EVF is very crisp and includes both focus peaking and focus magnification assistants.

This is proving to be a very useful approach for me.

G
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