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Old 11-13-2016   #41
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
People that don't sell gear every day might appreciate a few tips.
Wouldn't it be more courteous to wait until someone asks for advice / tips before giving it?

Cheers,

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Old 11-13-2016   #42
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It appears the seller is appreciative:

Quote:
Thank you all for your contributions and comments. Some I did find useful and I implemented many suggestions to clarify a few fine points.
 

Old 11-13-2016   #43
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So why do I see so many used cars priced on dealers forecourts far above the price for the same car at other dealers and why do I see so many of them not being sold, and why do I see so many used car dealers going under??
Professional sellers that don't figure out how to sell, will likely go under, or they will learn how it's done and avoid it.
 

Old 11-13-2016   #44
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
It appears the seller is appreciative:
.... worth reading the rest of his post too.

Cheers,

John
 

Old 11-13-2016   #45
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Originally Posted by splitimageview View Post
Professional sellers that don't figure out how to sell, will likely go under, or they will learn how it's done and avoid it.
So the best thing for a novice or inexperienced seller who wants to sell something through the classifieds here is to ask for advice from more experienced / professional sellers here on how to price / grade and market their item? And if they don't ask for advice before placing their advert, be grateful that there are more experienced / professional sellers here who can point out the error of their ways.

Still confused

Cheers,

John
 

Old 11-13-2016   #46
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If you ruin someone's ad by drawing attention or leaving comment that is not asked for then you should have to pay for that ad.
It's the sellers choice and all you do gooders should mind your own business.
Seriously, were you all library monitors or school prefects?
After this I seriously doubt he's got any chance of selling those items here so the OP should refund his ad fee for interfering.
If you are not buying an advertised item then the price or condition is irrelevant and has nothing to do with you.
 

Old 11-14-2016   #47
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Couldn't agree more with nobbylon's post above.

Basically, I just feel that people should be able to place adverts here without having them picked to pieces, or given unsolicited advice and tips from those that profess to have more knowledge of the item they are selling, market etc.

Cheers,

John
 

Old 11-14-2016   #48
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Originally Posted by nobbylon View Post
Exactly, too many advert assasins here.

As for limiting people with x amount of posts to list items for sale, I can't see it as it's revenue for site owner.

I do think that prices are expected to be lower here than anywhere else.
I respectfully disagree.

Rangefinderforum is, unlike eBay, a community. If I see a dodgy item on eBay, I think caveat emptor. But with rff, if I see a dodgy ad, I do feel more affronted. Doing a passive-aggressive post, rather like that of the OP, is an action I sympathise with!

I have had people post on my ads to say something looks good, and I've done the same with items for sale. I full understand that the converse is not allowed - people pay for their ads. That doesn't stop me wanting to point out when something is dodgy. It's my love of my fellow man.
 

Old 11-14-2016   #49
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Reading the Classifieds Guidelines (link here, scroll down the page to the guidelines), the only guideline I can see that concerns comments is:

13) DO NOT place negative comments about ads or auctions. Sellers are free to place their ads. Buyers are free to buy, or not buy. There is no need for animosity.
indeed. and this doesn't make it a less dump policy.

"Obviously wrong" and "responsibility of the buyer" are only obvious to some people, with the correct experience.
If my mom wants to buy a leica on these classifieds to make me a present, welll she won't be able to spot the differences between photos and description, and shw WILL trust the description better than a few small photos.
Is it OK to fool my mom and conclude it's her fault?
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Old 11-14-2016   #50
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Sola scriptura, so to say?
I'm really mesmerized whether this thread might be supposed to identify very clearly the participants' individual political/religious stances
haha
not sure what my own politica/religious stance is, though, so if you figured it out tell me, pls
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Old 11-14-2016   #51
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I always read between the lines of sales ads anyways

Why is it so hard to run a camera through a function test. Been burned with wrinkled shutters, Minolta XDs where meters don't work, undisclosed cleaning marks on "mint" glass...

Just be honest

Mint, excited, vg, ugly used to all mean something before online ads and photos
 

Old 11-14-2016   #52
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Originally Posted by John Lawrence View Post
Still can't see what all the fuss is about.

Why does it matter to so many people what price a seller wants to sell their item at?

I don't feel the need or urge to go round the local used car lots telling the dealers the cars they have for sale are overpriced, not described properly - or give them advice on how best to sell them.

Cheers,

John
Agree. Dont like it, dont buy it. Also, I dont think the ad was made on a misleading way (he put some pretty clear photos, showing the item condition), probably just innacurate, but I think most people could tell that and dont get offense or think the seller was trying to scam them.

Regars

Marcelo
 

Old 11-14-2016   #53
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This thread must have been the reason for nobody posting anything in the classifieds last weekend.

It was a boring 72 hrs.
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Old 11-14-2016   #54
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Originally Posted by Paul T. View Post
I respectfully disagree.

Rangefinderforum is, unlike eBay, a community. If I see a dodgy item on eBay, I think caveat emptor. But with rff, if I see a dodgy ad, I do feel more affronted. Doing a passive-aggressive post, rather like that of the OP, is an action I sympathise with!

I have had people post on my ads to say something looks good, and I've done the same with items for sale. I full understand that the converse is not allowed - people pay for their ads. That doesn't stop me wanting to point out when something is dodgy. It's my love of my fellow man.
feel free to post nice things but if you jeopardise sales from my ads then you should pay for them. I don't mess with your business so don't mess with mine and to be honest Stephen should have stamped on this at first light. If this is the way things are going here it's worse than ebay because it's a bunch of do gooders trying to set prices that they want to pay. Feel free to trade and buy from each other at prices you feel comfortable paying but don't try to manipulate or set prices. The contract is between buyer and seller or vice versa and NOT nosey or interfering 3rd party want to be ad police.
 

Old 11-14-2016   #55
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Reading the Classifieds Guidelines (link here, scroll down the page to the guidelines), the only guideline I can see that concerns comments is:

13) DO NOT place negative comments about ads or auctions. Sellers are free to place their ads. Buyers are free to buy, or not buy. There is no need for animosity.
Exactly. Sellers must have a safe stress free place to sell.

Buy or not, that is your choice if you are reading the ad.

What if that same seller is put off by your comments and you miss the that prize you were looking for
because next time they have sold it elsewhere?

Without sellers, there are no classified ads. Be nice to them.

At the same time, for those who have not bothered to read the RFF classifieds guidelines, please do so.

There are 15 Classified Guidelines below the classified thumbnails.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/phot...ndex.php?cat=1

Stephen
 

Old 11-15-2016   #56
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As I said, if you think an ad is misleading or even fraudulent, notify a moderator.
In general, on fora, there are moderators to handle the problems and running of the forum. It is always a bad idea for members to play police and judge by themselves. There is no need for vigilantes
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Old 11-15-2016   #57
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I don't mess with your business so don't mess with mine and to be honest Stephen should have stamped on this at first light. If this is the way things are going here it's worse than ebay because it's a bunch of do gooders....
Interesting post. At no point did I endorse adding negative comments to people's ads, rather I mentioned that I felt loyalty to the community, and have often posted positive comments on ads.

I'll make sure I don't post positive comments on your classifieds, as requested.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #58
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Thank you all for your contributions and comments. Some I did find useful and I implemented many suggestions to clarify a few fine points. I do remember the time when I wanted to rekindle my rangefinder experience. While I started out photography with a Russian made Leica copy, but for many decades I became an SRL and later a DSRL user. However about six years ago I bought my M9. Before I did, I was surfing many Leica forum to educate myself. I admit that I am more of a consumer of forums rather than contributor. Nevertheless I bought my first Leica as a kit (it was the M8.2 with a 28mm Summicron.) I sold the camera and kept the lens. I still have it. Leica also sells from time to time kits. So I am convinced there is a market for it. Perhaps not like you Leicaphyle folks, but there are people who would like to pick up a complete kit and start experimenting. This group is my target market.
It is somewhat sad that you people do not make room for these newbies. Many of you sound like some uber elite expert, who cannot tolerate other people with less knowledge than you claim to have. According to you (at least that what sounds like) people who cannot identify any Leica product by its serial number, including the color, the year when it was produced and the chief designer, should not share the planet with you. They just sucking the air from the worthy.
However I am a big boy, and as long as things do not get personal, I can take it. If I get bruised I will remember to list myself as BGN and nothing above. Thank you all again for the experience and for taking the time and giving me a good lesson.
I joined here after looking at the forum many times .
Only joined to post an ad for a tower camera , 9 years later still here .
Everyone has that first ad with 0 feedback
Welcome .
The photos in your ad are good enough for potential buyers to make a decision , and the description notes the shutter actuations .
With Leica people I've found the expectations of the description to be very high .
 

Old 11-15-2016   #59
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I suggest: take this test https://www.politicalcompass.org/test/en
just next to gandhi, LOL
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Old 11-15-2016   #60
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Interesting post. At no point did I endorse adding negative comments to people's ads, rather I mentioned that I felt loyalty to the community, and have often posted positive comments on ads.

I'll make sure I don't post positive comments on your classifieds, as requested.
No and I didn't say you did but what you did do is sympathise with the OP's passive aggresive destructive posting on someone elses ad!
I'm also all for encouraging other sellers and endorsing other good sellers I know and have had dealings with.
The moderators to my mind should delete ANY post that threatens a sellers ad by way of price or condition critisism. The seller is responsible for those and by paying for an ad is entitled to a fair crack at a sale without having to deal with the 'experts' or price police.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #61
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No and I didn't say you did but what you did do is sympathise with the OP's passive aggresive destructive posting on someone elses ad!
I'm also all for encouraging other sellers and endorsing other good sellers I know and have had dealings with.
The moderators to my mind should delete ANY post that threatens a sellers ad by way of price or condition critisism. The seller is responsible for those and by paying for an ad is entitled to a fair crack at a sale without having to deal with the 'experts' or price police.
So the sense of community disappears in the Classifieds section? Then it is a free for all as long as the seller has paid his fee?

Here's the deal. The seller, previously unknown to us, and who only knew of this thread because he was directed to it by someone else who commented directly on his ad, placed an ad for a beat up camera that was $2000 more than the current going rate. The original text stated that it was in Mint condition, and all knowledgeable experts would agree with him. That text has since been removed, thanks to this thread, which I think is a good thing.
While the 'experts' among us know about correct pricing and condition, we also have newbies who have joined this site, who may not know much about condition and pricing but feel because they are now part of our community that this would be a trusted place to buy (and sell) items.
Because we would take care of them, as we are meant to be a community.

If that's not the case then this is just another place on the web where everyone is just out for themselves. We don't need that here, we have ebay for that!
 

Old 11-15-2016   #62
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whichever way you spin it Huss, you interfered with someone else's ad. It's really that simple and even having been told by the site owner to read the rules, you, and others are choosing to try and make your own. I don't care one jot how much others decide to charge for their 'for sale' items. If I'm in the market I do my own homework but you and some others have decided to play expert and educate both buyers and sellers. I personally think you should show some humility, admit you were wrong and refund the ad you ruined.
I don't need favours or education on pricing from you or anyone else. I decide on my items value and also what I wish to pay for something.
Stephen has already told you where to look so what's the difficulty?
You're banging on about community but also trying to tell others how to sell their gear. The point is obviously lost on you and some. I've said my piece and it's now up to the mods to instruct and educate you what the rules of this community are.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #63
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It's rather unfortunate this thread has deteriorated.

There is value (from multiple viewpoints) in these sorts of discussions but only if they proceed in a friendly manner.

There are ways to present one's position while remaining civil.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #64
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It's rather unfortunate this thread has deteriorated.

There is value (from multiple viewpoints) in these sorts of discussions but only if they proceed in a friendly manner.

There are ways to present one's position while remaining civil.
Indeed and trying to impose ones will against others by virtue of post count or self professed expertise is not one of them.
The rules are quite clear and although it was not done directly in the sellers ad, the defamatory post left no one in any doubt as to which ad was being spoken about.
I believe that this was not nice behaviour and actually goes against the community spirit that is been harped on about by some members.
It deteriorated the minute someones paid ad was torn apart by interference.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #65
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When I posted an ad, it said that the ad is "pending approval". Doesn't this imply that a mod is reading an ad before it is posted? If there are classifieds with misleading item descriptions or otherwise dubious classifieds (I am not implying that this one was), aren't these caught during the approval? The number of classifieds is so low that I this could easily be done.
 

Old 11-15-2016   #66
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When I posted an ad, it said that the ad is "pending approval". Doesn't this imply that a mod is reading an ad before it is posted? If there are classifieds with misleading item descriptions or otherwise dubious classifieds (I am not implying that this one was), aren't these caught during the approval? The number of classifieds is so low that I this could easily be done.
I always thought 'pending approval' meant waiting for payment to clear!
 

Old 11-15-2016   #67
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When I posted an ad, it said that the ad is "pending approval". Doesn't this imply that a mod is reading an ad before it is posted? If there are classifieds with misleading item descriptions or otherwise dubious classifieds (I am not implying that this one was), aren't these caught during the approval? The number of classifieds is so low that I this could easily be done.
Pending Approval is the default software terminology for making sure payment has been processed.

Mods do not inspect ads before the ads are posted. The software does not even allow that.

Stephen
 

Old 11-15-2016   #68
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This thread has gone south. It is now closed.

RFF classified guidelines were in place before most of the posters in this thread ever joined RFF.

Those guidelines have worked well over the years with a minimum of problems.

Mods will step in if need be, their judgement. Otherwise its up to the buyers and sellers to buy and sell intelligently.

Thank you all for being concerned about making RFF a better site.
Its inevitable however that not everyone will agree.

Best,
Stephen
 
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