Old 4 Weeks Ago   #41
peterm1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob-F View Post
You mean Schrodinger's cat? So he is both a troll and not a troll, until we look to see which he is? But wouldn't he have to be a very small particle for that?
In my case the Schrodinger's cat is usually inherent in the photos I make. Until I observe them and then process them on my PC I am never sure if the photos are any good or not. Until then they are in a superposition of states representing a good photo and a crappy photo.

In my case the cat often dies. So I only ever show the live ones here.

Still I have the happy thought that perhaps, due to quantum entanglement, somewhere on the other side of the universe is a living good photo for every crappy one I make.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #42
Pál_K
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Originally Posted by dourbalistar View Post
Unless I've made a huge mistake... the OP ended up with the 50 Lux ASPH and the 50 APO, then invited everyone to "flame away".
A nice problem to have. He could keep the APO unopened in box for a few years and maybe sell for profit.

Or buy digital Leica to use the APO with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peterm1 View Post
...
Still I have the happy thought that perhaps, due to quantum entanglement, somewhere on the other side of the universe is a living good photo for every crappy one I make.
Nice to see a fellow enthusiast of quantum physics here.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #43
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Thanks to the magic of Google cache, I've been able to read the original post and some of the responses. The OP doesn't look like a troll, unless they're one of us pretending to be a newbie. There's just too much information about various Leica models to be someone who hasn't done a lot of reading and ruminating on Leica film bodies and lenses.

The OP didn't end up with a 50 Lux and 50 APO, but wanted a 50 Lux but got one with oily aperture blades. OP took it back and then upgraded to the APO. And they hadn't collected the M-A body at that time, so didn't even have the experience of shooting with it. The post ended with musing that a M6 with 50 Lux would have been a much cheaper and better (for him) setup.

With that in mind, let's look at it. Sometimes people get carried away by excitement and hype, and do things they weren't really thinking of doing. Just about everyone has made a regrettable purchase or decision, with varying monetary and physical consequences. The main thing is, can you live with it? Can you work with it?

Spending a large sum of money on anything is relative to your environment and personal standards. Loads of people drive a Mercedes or Audi on credit or lease, and in Australia, I know people paying $1600 AUD a month for their car. To me, I'd never pay that much for a car, but I might drop that once a year to get a new lens. But for them, it's a combination of tax write off and disposable income. Someone who is used to owning camera gear worth thousands is less likely to blink at carrying a M-A and 50 APO.

The second issue is the notion that a M6 and 50 Lux is a 'better' purchase than a brand new M-A and 50 APO. Certainly, it's way less expensive and less of a personal effort to carry, if you're not used to that level of gear cost. On the other hand, it's cosmetically different from the M6, is brand new and under warranty, and is easier to repair because it has no electrical innards at all.

If OP was a troll, it was a RF enthusiast who wanted to point out how much money a person can drop on a new Leica setup, and how a M6 and 50 Lux is a functional alternative to a M-A and 50 APO.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archiver View Post
Thanks to the magic of Google cache, I've been able to read the original post and some of the responses. The OP doesn't look like a troll, unless they're one of us pretending to be a newbie. There's just too much information about various Leica models to be someone who hasn't done a lot of reading and ruminating on Leica film bodies and lenses.

The OP didn't end up with a 50 Lux and 50 APO, but wanted a 50 Lux but got one with oily aperture blades. OP took it back and then upgraded to the APO. And they hadn't collected the M-A body at that time, so didn't even have the experience of shooting with it. The post ended with musing that a M6 with 50 Lux would have been a much cheaper and better (for him) setup.

With that in mind, let's look at it. Sometimes people get carried away by excitement and hype, and do things they weren't really thinking of doing. Just about everyone has made a regrettable purchase or decision, with varying monetary and physical consequences. The main thing is, can you live with it? Can you work with it?

Spending a large sum of money on anything is relative to your environment and personal standards. Loads of people drive a Mercedes or Audi on credit or lease, and in Australia, I know people paying $1600 AUD a month for their car. To me, I'd never pay that much for a car, but I might drop that once a year to get a new lens. But for them, it's a combination of tax write off and disposable income. Someone who is used to owning camera gear worth thousands is less likely to blink at carrying a M-A and 50 APO.

The second issue is the notion that a M6 and 50 Lux is a 'better' purchase than a brand new M-A and 50 APO. Certainly, it's way less expensive and less of a personal effort to carry, if you're not used to that level of gear cost. On the other hand, it's cosmetically different from the M6, is brand new and under warranty, and is easier to repair because it has no electrical innards at all.

If OP was a troll, it was a RF enthusiast who wanted to point out how much money a person can drop on a new Leica setup, and how a M6 and 50 Lux is a functional alternative to a M-A and 50 APO.
This is wonderful. Google Cache. Classics scholars and archaeologists know of texts now lost to us and write of them as you have done, but not with the missing text in front of them. Hopefully after this thread is deleted someone like you will be around to resurrect the new missing text.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #45
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Meta-remorse.

But, seriously, I'll bet it was illuminating to the OP to write it all out. I can understand that he decided afterwards that it was a little too much public sharing.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieJ View Post
Surely in this day and age posting to an online forum is not without consequences. Ironic to read that others here also frequent other similar forums (and called this out) A simple name change and another forum post ... innocuous as it appears. Seems the same poster has not requested same elsewhere.
Was the OP outright called a troll by multiple posters multiple times on the other forums he posted on? (Genuine question as I haven’t checked)

Edit: Well, I went back and found the deleted thread and checked the posted links to two threads on another forum. Not a single mention of the OP being a troll over there. That only happened on RFF.

[sarcasm]Maaaaate how good is the classy lot at RFF.[/sarcasm]
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #47
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Originally Posted by Pál_K View Post
A nice problem to have. He could keep the APO unopened in box for a few years and maybe sell for profit.

Or buy digital Leica to use the APO with.

Nice to see a fellow enthusiast of quantum physics here.
Yep I am just as puzzled and mystified by quantum physics as the next guy but I keep on cogitating over it. That makes me a kind of quantum tragic. One who even reads limericks on quantum physics - though I prefer dirty ones. But if you are the same which I gather you are, you will no doubt get the gist of this (clean) one about quantum entanglement.

Einstein, Podolsky and Rosen

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #48
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Originally Posted by ColSebastianMoran View Post
Meta-remorse.

But, seriously, I'll bet it was illuminating to the OP to write it all out. I can understand that he decided afterwards that it was a little too much public sharing.
Well put Colonel. In a meta-thread.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #49
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In regards to any 'dream camera'.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

Mr. Spock

And no, I don't remember the episode title.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #50
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Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
In regards to any 'dream camera'.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."
Mr. Spock
Less is more, in terms of gear. A pity that in terms of (new) Leica stuff it costs so much money.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
In regards to any 'dream camera'.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

Mr. Spock

And no, I don't remember the episode title.
This is one of the most important things I learnt on RFF - not having heard Spock tell the Captain this on TV.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zuiko85 View Post
In regards to any 'dream camera'.
"After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

Mr. Spock

And no, I don't remember the episode title.
Have to agree although I luckily never had remorse after buying.

For me a casual classic film camera shooter, I go through these phases:

Desire > Research > Acquire > Anticipate > Possess > Use > Admire

...then Rinse & Repeat with the next camera

I think I get the most enjoyment from Desire and Admire phase.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #53
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We have all experienced buyers remorse. Go easy on the guy. He likely just realised he made his third mistake (after the M-A, after the APO) by posting about it. Nothing wrong with a bit of group therapy.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raydm6 View Post

For me a casual classic film camera shooter, I go through these phases:

Desire > Research > Acquire > Anticipate > Possess > Use > Admire

...then Rinse & Repeat with the next camera

I go through exactly the same phases with almost everything I want to buy. I'm heavy on research because I want to be happy with my purchase. Also interesting is noticing how I go through phases of intense interest in wanting things; if I wait long enough, the interest dissipates and I don't spend the money after all! So it's in my best financial interest to research as much as possible before buying something.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #55
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Originally Posted by jonmanjiro View Post
Was the OP outright called a troll by multiple posters multiple times on the other forums he posted on? (Genuine question as I haven’t checked)
I could not say either way. Asking questions about the whys and wherefores verbatim tends to rub peeps the wrong way.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #56
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Getting some extra reassurance here at RFF is something that I have often done. I have been told by some “you know what you need, so why have such a thread?”.
Oh well. I did not troll.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #57
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Just quickly looked at the OP's post on the other Leica forum and he seems pretty happy with his purchase. This whole thread has been a mystery to me since he originally posted. Definitely WPP.

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyjoe View Post
Just quickly looked at the OP's post on the other Leica forum and he seems pretty happy with his purchase. This whole thread has been a mystery to me since he originally posted. Definitely WPP.

Best,
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Having looked at the responses he got to his query over at the LUF, it’s obvious that he was getting more thoughtful and more detailed information about the characteristics of various lenses over there, without being sidetracked into a focus on cost. Plus, the tenor over there was frankly nicer, sad to say, that observation being hard to escape if one reads the threads from both forums.
Though I am aware that people over there tend to be less bothered by price points than they are here, and they just focus on the actual attributes of things and generally leave cost out of it. Though, that in itself just makes them “fanboys” to some.
Anyway, the different tenor of the threads on the two forums was interesting.
I don’t go over there much as it is too rich for my blood, but they do know their lenses.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #59
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There was a time when many Leica users were posting at P....net, and due to cruel talks there, many joined RFF and stayed here.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #60
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Originally Posted by Larry Cloetta View Post
Having looked at the responses he got to his query over at the LUF, it’s obvious that he was getting more thoughtful and more detailed information about the characteristics of various lenses over there, without being sidetracked into a focus on cost. Plus, the tenor over there was frankly nicer, sad to say, that observation being hard to escape if one reads the threads from both forums.
Though I am aware that people over there tend to be less bothered by price points than they are here, and they just focus on the actual attributes of things and generally leave cost out of it. Though, that in itself just makes them “fanboys” to some.
Anyway, the different tenor of the threads on the two forums was interesting.
I don’t go over there much as it is too rich for my blood, but they do know their lenses.
Different threads. The one over there was asking advice about a potential new purchase. The one here was a humblebrag about what he'd just bought, including an impulse purchase of a 6.5k lens. natch.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #61
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At first I was tempted to call a troll, having been one in the past (not here, over on "guitars") but held back, then called "not a troll, an excited almost owner, remorseful before the fact, and talkative." I suppose the troll calling was the downfall of the thread, I will be ashamed and learn from it.
You know you can edit your posts any time, right?
Just today, because of asking & getting advice here I have decided not to buy one more camera? Saved $175. Be content, oh self.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #62
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Hey Sanders, I like your Insta, do you step up and ask for permission to take a shot? Nice!


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Different threads.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #63
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I just dont see the benefits of the apo lens on film from a technical/artistic viewpoint.
I do w the more expensive noctilux as u can see its signature on the image.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #64
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Get an affluenza shot and call me in a few days. I don't think we are going to miss out on much in this situation.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #65
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On a photo forum when the subject of Leica is brought up there will be inevitable trolling from virtuous people who regularly donate their income and make do with a point and shoot. “Fondler, dentist, affluenza”. Whatever. Happens here regularly: “I had money for the APO but donated it to Mother Teresa’s leprechaun colony and have been using a scratched up Takumar. See my photo of the gate leading up to the Castle D’If in bright sunlight? No difference you fondlers.”
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #66
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Get an affluenza shot and call me in a few days. I don't think we are going to miss out on much in this situation.
Eat steak? You should be eating spam.
Drive a car? You should be walking.
Bought new pants? Should have gone to the thrift shop.

A Leica M-A and a 50 Apo is a dream combo for some. More power to them.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #67
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knowing the anti-Leica crowd here, can easily guess what kind of welcome he/she(who?) got when telling of buying that kind of kit. no wonder the thread got deleted.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #68
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Scratched up Takumar?

Luxury.

Back when I was a lad all we had for a kit was the broken base of a Coke bottle pushed through a shoebox and we were grateful for it, we were.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #69
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The irony in all of this for me is that I don't believe Leica would still be operating today were it not for the Internet. That's not meant as a knock on Leica — I feel this same way about a variety of businesses. Hopefully the creator of the original thread finds some peace in whatever action ends up being taken.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidnewtonguitars View Post
Hey Sanders, I like your Insta, do you step up and ask for permission to take a shot? Nice!
Most kind ! Yup, all of the portrait-y ones I've asked for permission.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #71
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The irony in all of this for me is that I don't believe Leica would still be operating today were it not for the Internet. That's not meant as a knock on Leica — I feel this same way about a variety of businesses. Hopefully the creator of the original thread finds some peace in whatever action ends up being taken.
I understand what you mean but I am pedantic and will reply with an observation.

If there is no internet then digital photography would not have existed or at least not as a consumer product. The big four would still be making film cameras. Leica would have continued with whatever they were planning back 20 years ago. And the R system would be autofocus and that's about it.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
I understand what you mean but I am pedantic and will reply with an observation.

If there is no internet then digital photography would not have existed or at least not as a consumer product. The big four would still be making film cameras. Leica would have continued with whatever they were planning back 20 years ago. And the R system would be autofocus and that's about it.
"The big four." Leica, Nikon, Hasselblad, Canon? Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Minolta? Pentax, Canon, Minolta, Fuji? Minolta, Hasselblad, Arca Swiss, Rollei? Rollei, Minolta, Canon, Leica?
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #73
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Originally Posted by Pál_K View Post
broken base of a Coke bottle pushed through a shoebox
Sheer luxury.

When I were a lad we dreamt of Coke bottles and shoe boxes.

You don't know how lucky you were.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #74
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"The big four." Leica, Nikon, Hasselblad, Canon? Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Minolta? Pentax, Canon, Minolta, Fuji? Minolta, Hasselblad, Arca Swiss, Rollei? Rollei, Minolta, Canon, Leica?
Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki

Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax

John, Paul, George, Ringo

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Jeep (?)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayt View Post
Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki

Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax

John, Paul, George, Ringo

Ford, GM, Chrysler, Jeep (?)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda

Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer...
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #76
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Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Slayer...

Missionary, doggy, cowgirl, spoons...
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #77
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Sheer luxury.

When I were a lad we dreamt of Coke bottles and shoe boxes.

You don't know how lucky you were.
Enough of this sickening affluenza.
When I was a boy I just stared into the distance and people told me of their dreams of coke bottles and shoe boxes.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #78
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Let me consult with the great oracle to see if this anti-Leica bias is based on a bitter bean breakfast

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Old 4 Weeks Ago   #79
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Of course, the Leicans can get a bit feisty at times (from the Takumar thread)

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I believe them to be mechanical and optical deficient. I dropped two or three onto my bed while changing lenses and the diaphragms immediately became sticky. That is about an 18" fall to soft surface!

I tried to match the photos in the paper sample books for years and could never get it right. We moved in 1976 and a wedding photography neighbor loaned me his Leica M3. Same bulk roll of Plus x and same batch of developer and the prints came alive.

Sold 12 lenses and 4 bodies all of which were purchased new at Altman Camera and started my Leica collection.


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Leave Schrödinger Out Of This
Old 4 Weeks Ago   #80
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Leave Schrödinger Out Of This

Schrödinger's cat is a succinct reminder of the teleological difference between the classic and the quantum. That's it. There's nothing more.

Details

Schrödinger was attempting to show quantum mechanics phenomena are deterministic when he discovered his wave equation. The results displeased him but the indeterministic mathematic solutions he discovered are undeniable.

"I don't like it, and I'm sorry I ever had anything to do with it.", Erwin Schrödinger commenting on his Wave Equation

Schrödinger's cat thought experiment is nonsense in terms of all human experience before quantum mechanics.

Before quantum mechanics Nature was completely described by determinism. Then confusing results from experiments with light were perfectly explained by indeterministic mathematical models. The mathematics of quantum mechanics are not deterministic. The results are essentially probabilities. This is an oversimplification. But the situation is very different than classical physics. This was distressing and unacceptable to many physicists.

How can Nature be both deterministic and indeterministic? Something is wrong. Our knowledge of Nature must be incomplete. At the same time, over 100 years later, not only have those indeterministic mathematical solutions been perfectly consistent with experimental results - they also predicted counterintuitive phenomena such as spin echos and self-induced transparency.

The point is: Schrödinger's cat makes us confront our intuitive common sense does not apply to quantum mechanics. Schrödinger's cat reveals that (so far) quantum mechanics is incompatible with human experience and common sense. This is the only context where Schrödinger's thought experiment is useful.

Schrödinger's cat does not apply to anything completely explained by determinism. There is no mystery or paradox in classical physics. While, some deterministic solutions may be extraordinarily difficult to compute, they exist. Likewise Schrödinger's cat does not apply to human experience. People make decisions based on what they perceive as wisdom at the time of their decision. Unwise decisions are not inherently indeterministic. They are simply incomplete and, or premature.
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